Debates of Sept. 27th, 1995

Somalia Inquiry

[Jack Frazer, Reform, Saanich—Gulf Islands, BC]

Mr. Speaker, Canadians from coast to coast to coast want to know that justice was done in the Somalia inquiry.

On Monday, former sergeant, now private, Mark Boland was denied standing before the Somalia commission. Apparently senior ranks are allowed standing because the commission may "make pronouncements that reveal their misconduct or give voice to

allegations that bring discredit upon them. Lower ranks such as Boland have no need for official standing".

Does the Minister of National Defence agree that rank should automatically grant standing, or will he accept that involvement and knowledge of the situation should be the deciding factors?

[David Collenette, Liberal, Minister of National Defence and Minister of Veterans Affairs]

Mr. Speaker, the hon. member should know by now that the commission is the master of its own procedure.

The commission has extensive terms of reference. I do not believe there has been any argument made by anyone as to the degree to which the commission can investigate the deployment to Somalia. It is for the commission to decide who has standing and who has not.

If an individual feels aggrieved by the procedural decisions of the commission, they have the right to recourse through legal means.

[Jack Frazer, Reform, Saanich—Gulf Islands, BC]

Mr. Speaker, the commission said: "Our terms of reference are very clear that it is the chain of command system and leadership within the chain of command that is to be our concern".

Mark Boland was given orders and he gave orders. He is in the chain of command. He has knowledge that can provide connective tissue to shape the body of evidence in this case. He must be able to pose questions. The right question to the right person at the right time will reveal the whole truth of the Somalia inquiry.

Will the minister now intervene to ensure that Mark Boland is granted standing before the Somalia commission?

[David Collenette, Liberal, Minister of National Defence and Minister of Veterans Affairs]

Mr. Speaker, it is not the role of the Minister of National Defence to intervene in an inquiry constituted under the Inquiries Act.

Canada-Quebec Monetary Union

[Pierre Brien, Bloc, Témiscamingue, QC]

Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Minister of Finance. He appears to reject the idea of a monetary union between a sovereign Quebec and Canada. In addition, the leaders of the No side are questioning the ability of a sovereign Quebec to continue to use the Canadian dollar.

Does the Minister of Finance confirm that it is in Canada's very best interest to not only acknowledge that a sovereign Quebec may continue to use the Canadian dollar, but also to wish for this, specifically for the purpose of maintaining its value?

[Paul Martin, Liberal, Minister of Finance and Minister responsible for the Federal Office of Regional Development-Quebec]

No, Mr. Speaker, not in the least, but that is not the question. The question is this: How can it be that a Quebec desiring independence not only wishes to use the currency of another country but also is prepared to turn all of the control and influence a country must have over its monetary policy over to that other country?

This is the touchy situation in which Quebec will find itself, this is the fundamental tool it will have forgone.

[Pierre Brien, Bloc, Témiscamingue, QC]

Mr. Speaker, does the Minister of Finance acknowledge that the worst thing that could happen to the Canadian dollar would be for Quebecers, who have ownership of it, who have earned it with the sweat of their brows, to decide to collectively unload the one quarter of the money supply that is in their hands, some 100 billion dollars, whereas mutual interest and common sense militate strongly in favour of a monetary union?

[Paul Martin, Liberal, Minister of Finance and Minister responsible for the Federal Office of Regional Development-Quebec]

Mr. Speaker, what would it accomplish to put Quebec in the same position as, say, France is with respect to the Bundesbank or the bank of some other country?

When Canada is in a period of full growth, if there is a downturn in Quebec, monetary policy will be set in Canada to the detriment of Quebecers.

Tell me, what point is there in becoming independent if the tools of independence are handed over to another? It is totally pointless.

Canadian Broadcasting Corporation

[Monte Solberg, Reform, Medicine Hat, AB]

Mr. Speaker, despite all the rhetoric from the government about the need to cut spending at CBC, the auditor general's report in July revealed it is very fat and that there is all kinds of waste going on.

On Monday when a document was circulated around, the CBC annual report indicated discretionary spending had gone up $50 million last year, we can imagine how taxpayers must feel ripped off.

What is the minister doing about this matter?

[Michel Dupuy, Liberal, Minister of Canadian Heritage]

Mr. Speaker, let me congratulate our colleague for putting his first question as critic for the heritage portfolio.

The management of the CBC is now engaged in a very serious review of the financial dimensions of the corporation, as we have seen in the press. What it has in mind is to cut down on any possible

waste, increase the effectiveness of the CBC and make it one of the most modern and efficient broadcasters in the world.

[Monte Solberg, Reform, Medicine Hat, AB]

Mr. Speaker, every day CBC's ratings drop. It spends more money. The CBC president is pleading with the minister to bring in a mandate now so that he has the latitude to make the cuts he needs to make.

When will the minister show some leadership and bring in that new mandate?

[Michel Dupuy, Liberal, Minister of Canadian Heritage]

Mr. Speaker, our colleague should know that is precisely what we asked for, a panel of three people to make recommendations on the mandate. His wish will be granted. In the meantime the management of the CBC is managing at arm's length, as we all know.

The Environment

[John Finlay, Liberal, Oxford, ON]

Mr. Speaker, under the Canadian Environmental Assessment Act, as amended by the House last year, the Minister of the Environment is charged with the duty of creating a participant funding program.

Can the minister tell us what she has done so that Canadians with a serious interest in an environmental assessment can have access to funding in order to participate?

[Sheila Copps, Liberal, Deputy Prime Minister and Minister of the Environment]

Mr. Speaker, I want to follow up on the previous Minister of the Environment, now the hon. Leader of the Opposition, who stated in the House on April 5, 1990: "The federal government has very clear jurisdiction in the area of environmental impact assessment".

This jurisdiction is not challenged and it cannot be challenged. We have gone even further in the government. We have entrenched in law the principle of participant funding. In the last fiscal year there was about $860,000 available for the public to participate in the environmental assessment process enshrined by the previous Minister of the Environment.

Indian Affairs

[Len Taylor, NDP, The Battlefords—Meadow Lake, SK]

Mr. Speaker, the minister of Indian affairs has an opportunity to ease anxiety among those who believe the Indian land claims process is too slow, too complex and too uncertain.

Has the minister of Indian affairs considered the 1994-95 report of the Indian claims commission and will he respond positively to its first recommendation, the establishment of a new independent land claims policy and process?

[Ron Irwin, Liberal, Minister of Indian Affairs and Northern Development]

Mr. Speaker, I have the highest respect for the work of the Indian claims commission. Part of our red book commitment is to make the system more efficient and more just.

The problem I have, which the member knows, is whether it should be a justice system with binding judgments or a mediation system similar to what it is now, going through the convoluted process of having first to be turned down by the Indian claims commission.

That has not been settled by the chiefs. When I have some direction from the chiefs we could certainly move ahead on the desires of the Indian claims commission.

Presence In Gallery

[The Speaker]

I draw the attention of the House to the presence in the gallery of Mr. Vassillis Geranidis, member of Parliament for Salonica, Greece.

I also draw the attention of the House to the presence in the gallery of the Hon. John Efford, Minister of Public Works and Transportation of Newfoundland.

[Some hon. members]

Hear, hear.

Privilege

[The Speaker]

I have a point of privilege which I will hear before the points of order. The point of privilege is coming from the Minister of Human Resources Development. We usually need notice before, but is it arising from question period?

[Lloyd Axworthy, Liberal, Minister of Human Resources Development and Minister of Western Economic Diversification]

Mr. Speaker, during question period the member for Calgary Southeast made some statements alleging behaviour on my part and which imputed motive, neither of which is acceptable under the rules of the House.

There can be many differences of opinion in the House and we can certainly have questions about one's actions in terms of whether they are right or wrong in a political sense.

I have been a member of the House in public life for 24 years and I never at any time had my behaviour imputed the way the hon. member suggests. I ask her to withdraw and apologize because nothing wrong was done, as she imputed, and it really requires her to clear the record.

[The Speaker]

Before I go to the House leader of the Reform Party, because another hon. member has been mentioned in the House I wonder if the hon. member for Calgary Southeast would like to intervene before the House leader of the Reform Party.

[Jan Brown, Reform, Calgary Southeast, AB]

Mr. Speaker, with all due respect to the Minister of Human Resources Development, I am putting questions to the House similar to those asked of the Minister of Canadian Heritage regarding the same kinds of improprieties. The perception needs to be clarified. Therefore I will not withdraw and I will not apologize.

[The Speaker]

On the same point of privilege, the hon. government whip and then I will go to the House leader of the Reform Party.

[Don Boudria, Liberal, Glengarry—Prescott—Russell, ON]

Mr. Speaker, I turn to section 409(7) of Beauchesne's in relation to casting aspersions on persons within the House in addition to the fact that some of the allegations made by the hon. member alleged criminal activity on the part of another person regarding the relationship between that person and a minister of the House. The combination of those two things leads me to believe the language in question was unparliamentary and must be withdrawn.

I urge Mr. Speaker to request that any such expressions, including the language used in the question referred to, be withdrawn forthwith.

[Ray Speaker, Reform, Lethbridge]

Mr. Speaker, in speaking to this matter of privilege I bring your attention to the question, the operative part of my hon. colleague's presentation to the House.

It was very clear in the question that the member for Calgary Southeast asked a deliberate question of whether there was a relationship between two actions. That was not inferred nor did it reflect on the minister. Before making a final decision on this, Mr. Speaker, I ask that you take this into consideration.