House of Commons Hansard #80 of the 35th Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament's site.) The word of the day was children.

Topics

Criminal CodeGovernment Orders

1:40 p.m.

Reform

Myron Thompson Reform Wild Rose, AB

Mr. Speaker, I will be brief so my colleague can get in his question as well.

I first want to comment on the equality statement that was made by the hon. member in his speech. This bill outlines that the law it is presenting is prepared to go into community a and prepare it for the release of a violent offender.

Why would the hon. member not be willing to see community b or community c receive the same kind of preparedness? Why only one community? It is a good idea so why not do it all the way through the system? Or are we talking about discrimination here? I do not understand where the member is coming from when he says that community a should get this but the others should not.

Second, has the member checked lately the number of unreported violent crimes? When experts talk about the number of violent crimes going down, it is the number of violent crimes being reported that is going down.

When we ask individuals who have had offences committed against them why they did not report them, they say that they have seen from the experiences of others who have gone through the same things that due to this soft Liberal approach on crime, the criminals and their rights are up front and the victims and their rights are not considered. The victim suffers more in some cases by reporting a crime than by not reporting it. The victim would rather not go through further suffering.

Is the member aware that that actually exists in this country, or is he living in some dreamland where he thinks that does not happen?

I have one comment to make on the bill as a whole. I hope when the justice minister goes home at night he does not travel the way he makes legislation, because if he does he would never get home. He would only get half way. I wish the Liberals would go all the way with some of their legislation and cover all the aspects and quit leaving big holes in these bills.

Of course, most of the legislation I have seen in the past has been built by lawyers for lawyers, and benefits lawyers. We are quite

concerned about the amount of court time that will be involved in implementing this entire package.

Criminal CodeGovernment Orders

1:40 p.m.

Liberal

Pat O'Brien Liberal London—Middlesex, ON

Mr. Speaker, I hardly know where to begin. My colleague from Wild Rose has raised several points.

Let me begin with the hon. member's assertion that this is legislation built by lawyers for lawyers. Perhaps he was not in the Chamber when I quoted the statement of Mr. Newark, executive officer the Canadian Police Association: "This proposed high risk offenders legislation is the single most important improvement in Canadian public safety legislation in the last 20 years". Mr. Newark is not a lawyer. He is a law enforcement officer and I take his comments very advisedly. It speaks very clearly to the fact that experts in the field besides lawyers view this legislation as a very important improvement.

As to my comments about the application of Bill C-55 to the aboriginal community, with all due respect to my colleague, I certainly did not say that one community should get this but others should not. He attributed those comments to me but I certainly did not say that.

I was reacting to his colleague who spoke just before me. He said that he saw no way this bill should be applied any differently to the aboriginal community than to the rest of Canadian society. I repeat, in my opinion that is a very short sighted view of Canadian society. The reality of the aboriginal community in Canada is that different techniques are more effective within that community. But because we can apply a bill in a different way with one community does not mean than we are favouring one community over another.

If that were the case, as a parent with three children, two boys and one girl, I would have to treat them exactly the same in every aspect of their lives. That is just not common sense in a family situation or in the justice system. That is the point I was trying to make.

With reference to how this may apply in other communities, I would only say to my hon. friend opposite that we live a dynamic society. The bill is an improvement. That is not to say it is perfect or that over time it cannot be improved. Perhaps there will be opportunities to apply it differently in various communities as the cases may warrant.

Criminal CodeGovernment Orders

1:45 p.m.

Reform

Lee Morrison Reform Swift Current—Maple Creek—Assiniboia, SK

Mr. Speaker, I hope we can interpret the hon. member's statement as saying that there may be an amendment to this bill to make it equally applicable to all sectors of society.

My specific question deals with the hon. member's reference to statistics. I do not know how much he knows about the subject. I know a considerable amount because it is part of my background. It is very easy to pull a short section out of a statistical trend and say look, it is rising, it is dropping. If we are going to study a trend we have to study it over a reasonable period of time. I will grant that over the last couple of years there has been a very minor drop in the rate of violent crime in the country. But if we look at the statistics from about 1962 onward we can see many positive and negative blips. There is no such thing as a flat statistic trend.

Then the hard fact of the matter is that the rate of violent crime in Canada since 1962 has increased by almost 400 per cent. I suspect the hon. member knows that. I wish that when he uses statistics he would use them a little more broadly and generously.

Criminal CodeGovernment Orders

1:45 p.m.

Liberal

Pat O'Brien Liberal London—Middlesex, ON

Mr. Speaker, I am not given to long statistical arguments. I would invite my colleague to review my comments. I did not cite specific statistics. I did speak to the misperception which has been statistically proven as a misperception by experts in the field, both in the justice and law enforcement system.

Criminal CodeGovernment Orders

1:45 p.m.

Reform

Lee Morrison Reform Swift Current—Maple Creek—Assiniboia, SK

What about Statistics Canada?

Criminal CodeGovernment Orders

1:45 p.m.

Liberal

Pat O'Brien Liberal London—Middlesex, ON

Mr. Speaker, the member asked me a question and now he does not seem to want the answer.

The fact is that statistics prove that the misperception that we are on some rampant, runaway course of increase in violent crime in Canada today is simply not the case and it does none of us credit to fuel that misperception.

Criminal CodeGovernment Orders

1:45 p.m.

Liberal

Colleen Beaumier Liberal Brampton, ON

Mr. Speaker, justice policies often deal with issues which are the focus of great concern among Canadians. It is an area of public policy that comes under scrutiny daily in homes across the country as Canadians read their newspapers and watch the news. Unfortunately, it is also a source of a great deal of frustration.

The failure of successive governments to effectively combat high risk offenders has left Canadians feeling wary and cynical. Canadians are well aware of the types of crimes that occur and reoccur in their communities. They are well aware of the challenges we as parliamentarians face. That is why it is difficult for me as a member of Parliament and a democrat to act on the conventional wisdom prevalent among so-called experts. They claim the concern among Canadians over crime issues is overstated. They would have us spend our energies telling our constituents that they have no reason to worry about crime in this country.

I speak to my constituents every day and every day they tell me they are frustrated and afraid because of the level of violent crime in Canada. I am pleased to speak to this proposed legislation which addresses many of the concerns expressed by my constituents.

This legislation addresses very legitimate fears among Canadians over the ability of the justice system to deal with repeat sex offenders and specifically high risk offenders. It introduces tough

but effective controls to tip the balance in the fight against crime in our favour.

A case in point is the new long term offender designation. This designation was created to respond to the threat posed by sex offenders who do not quite qualify as dangerous offenders but still pose a risk to society. Bill C-55 proposes to add a period of supervision of up to 10 years following release from prison. This designation applies to a wide range of serious sexual offences from sexual touching to aggravated sexual assault.

The long term offender designation could also be applied to a person who committed another offence that had a sexual component, for example, somebody who committed a break and enter with a clear intention of sexually assaulting the occupants.

Canadians have consistently expressed frustration with the release from prison of sex offenders who are likely to reoffend. The dangerous offender designation responds to this concern in only the most extreme cases, leaving a significant gap in the high risk offender sentencing regime. The creation of the long term offender designation fills this gap.

A long term offender finding can be made only where the court is satisfied that there is a reasonable possibility of eventually controlling the risk imposed by the individual to the community. This allows a more structured kind of sentence for this type of offender, allowing the courts to pass tailor made effective sentences within a broad framework. This approach to justice policy is characteristic of the manner in which this government and this minister have responded to the challenges of this very important portfolio.

Efforts to streamline the sentencing process are evident in the proposed amendments to the dangerous offender provisions of the Criminal Code. Currently judges have the discretion to establish fixed sentences for individuals who are designated dangerous offenders. This is problematic.

The federal-provincial-territorial task force on high risk violent offenders correctly reported last year that it makes no sense to go through the dangerous offender procedure only to obtain a fixed sentence comparable to what might have been obtained without this lengthy exercise.

Under Bill C-55 when a dangerous offender application is successful the offender will automatically be sentenced to a period of indefinite incarceration. This measure is a recognition that dangerous offenders are just that and that the onus rests with them to demonstrate that they should be released from prison.

Other measures in the proposed legislation underline this message. The initial parole review of a dangerous offender would be moved to the seventh year from the third of incarceration and the number of psychiatrists required to testify has been reduced from two to one.

The introduction of a mechanism to allow a dangerous offender application up to six months after conviction rather than at the time of sentencing will allow the crown to act on information which may be brought to its attention following the conviction of an offender.

A third aspect of this legislation is the new judicial restraint provision which permits controls, including electronic monitoring of high risk offenders. This provision is much needed and has great potential for monitoring and controlling the movement of individuals who pose a risk of committing a serious personal injury offence. It should be noted that the exercise of this option does not depend on the individual's having committed a criminal offence. It is a preventive measure which will equip police with the means to monitor the conduct of offenders who pose a risk to society.

I might suggest that one feature of this legislation be singled out for intense study in committee, the long term offender designation. This is a very innovative and desirable aspect of the proposed legislation which deserves special attention. The committee should ensure that judges have a great deal of flexibility in the substance of its application. I have a specific use in mind.

Judges should have the ability to prescribe the application of new technologies for use in the monitoring of high risk offenders. Electronic monitoring has a multiplicity of uses in the fight against crime.

Judges should be vested with the ability to put this technology to use in monitoring high risk offenders. The committee should make every effort to ensure that the necessary legislation is in place to allow the application of new and emerging technologies to monitor long term offenders.

This legislation represents a well thought out, effective approach to dealing with justice issues which are paramount in the minds of Canadians. Some politicians have made a career of demanding monolithic, inflexible blanket legislation which imposes hefty minimum sentences. They will no doubt argue, as they always do, that this legislation does not go far enough in the war against crime. To them and their supporters, I offer the following observations.

It is true that we can draft any bill conceivable as long as it is within the jurisdiction of the federal government. However, if it will not work in the real world, the world that exists beyond these four walls, we are just wasting our time and betraying the trust of the people who put us here.

Let us not take the easy way out. Let us take the time to draft effective legislation that works. I would like to remind all hon. members that drafting justice policy is always a very difficult task.

We must balance the rights of the accused with the rights of the victims and the entitlement of society to an effective, fair justice system.

We must not fall into the trap of introducing laws that are inflexible and therefore incompatible with the task of achieving individual acts of justice within a broad public policy framework.

In the end, the true measure of an effective justice policy is the sum of the individual acts of the justice it achieves. We must strive to have effective laws. Bill C-55 achieves the balance required of good justice policy. I would encourage hon. members to give it their support.

Criminal CodeGovernment Orders

1:55 p.m.

Reform

Art Hanger Reform Calgary Northeast, AB

Mr. Speaker, I listened to the member intently as she made her presentation on Bill C-55. In her opinion this legislation was tough, it was going to really answer the concerns of a lot of Canadians.

I have one major concern that Canadians have regarding sexual offenders, particularly pedophiles. The concern is that a pedophile, a sexual offender, is sentenced to a definite term. Because that person refused treatment, refused to follow through on the criteria set before them as far as rehabilitation in the Liberal sense, because the law is the law when the warrant expiry comes up, the offender is released into the community in spite of statements by psychiatrists, psychologists, those who in the know, prison officials, that clearly point to the fact that this individual is high risk, that this individual will reoffend.

I do not see any provision in this bill that deals with the concern that Canadians have here. The minister had placed that point forward that the minister will allow a window of six months for a dangerous offender application to be made, thus determining an indeterminate sentence for that offender.

I would like the member to comment on that provision because there is a lack of teeth, if you will, still in Bill C-55 dealing with the sexual predators of this world.

Criminal CodeGovernment Orders

1:55 p.m.

The Speaker

If the hon. member for Brampton would care to answer now, I will permit a very brief answer. If not, the hon. member might want to answer right after the question period.

Criminal CodeGovernment Orders

1:55 p.m.

Liberal

Colleen Beaumier Liberal Brampton, ON

Mr. Speaker, members of the Reform Party view everything in black and white. There is no acknowledgement on their part that there are differences in sex offences. There has to be a provision for individual sentencing and determinations to occur.

The member for Wild Rose said earlier that there are so many crimes that are not being reported. At the same time, they are saying that violence is increasing. We dealt with this a year ago.

Criminal CodeGovernment Orders

1:55 p.m.

The Speaker

You still have another minute and a half, but it being 2 p.m. I will proceed to statements by members.

1999 Canada Winter GamesStatements By Members

1:55 p.m.

Liberal

Gerry Byrne Liberal Humber—St. Barbe—Baie Verte, NL

Mr. Speaker, I am very proud that the city of Corner Brook and all of western Newfoundland will play host to the 1999 Canada Winter Games. We are very excited about the opportunity.

The Canada games are for all Canadians. Shortly after the 1997 games in Brandon, the people of my riding will be opening up their hearts and their homes for two weeks of great sport and great hospitality. That same year, Newfoundland and Labrador will be celebrating its 50th anniversary within Confederation. As everyone knows, Newfoundlanders and Labradorians will be making this quite a celebration.

Let me take the opportunity to thank TSN and RDS for investing in the Canada games and for investing in Canada. Let me also thank the volunteers who so early on in the process are making these games a success.

The Municipality Of MartinvilleStatements By Members

1:55 p.m.

Bloc

Maurice Bernier Bloc Mégantic—Compton—Stanstead, QC

Mr. Speaker, 1996 marks the centennial of the municipality of Martinville and I invite the public to take part in the celebrations under way until December 7.

Like Daniel Martin, the municipality's founder who, around 1838, built a dam, a sawmill and a bridge on the rivière aux Saumons, the people of Martinville are known as people who are not afraid to innovate. This fact is evidenced by the exceptionally balanced make-up of the current council, comprised of three aldermen, three alderwomen and the mayor, a position also held by a woman, namely Arlette Champagne-Lessard.

Once again, Martinville has distinguished itself. Smaller than Montreal, maybe, not as well known as Quebec City, granted, but in the hearts of the people of the Eastern Townships and anyone who has ever vacationed there, the municipality of Martinville is nonetheless a pillar of our region's historical heritage.

Long live Martinville.

Goods And Services TaxStatements By Members

1:55 p.m.

Reform

John Williams Reform St. Albert, AB

Mr. Speaker, Mr. Charles Schroeder and Mr. Bob McGinn in my riding believe that the 7 per cent GST is an unjust tax on reading materials and state that a

regressive tax on reading handicaps that development. Their letter was endorsed by 56 other constituents in my riding.

Ordinary Canadians want the GST on books removed. The Minister of Finance has doubled the taxation on books in Atlantic Canada. His GST harmonization policy which has replaced the Liberal red book policy of GST elimination is going to double taxation on books right across the country.

Education is the foundation of our prosperity. An educated mind is the most valuable resource a country has. Obviously this government ignores these realities in order to raise taxes to fund its insatiable appetite for big government.

Mr. Schroeder and Mr. McGinn have demonstrated their commitment to education by the giving of their time to serve on school boards. Will the government recognize that education is important and eliminate the GST-

Goods And Services TaxStatements By Members

1:55 p.m.

The Speaker

The hon. member for Kamloops.

TaxationStatements By Members

1:55 p.m.

NDP

Nelson Riis NDP Kamloops, BC

Mr. Speaker, the Minister of Finance yesterday closed the infamous Bronfman family tax loophole to much applause and hoopla. But let us not forget that the Bronfmans actually got that $500 million Christmas present from the federal government in 1991 and have kept it.

It took five years before either a Tory or a Liberal Minister of Finance was embarrassed by the auditor general to act. The Minister of Finance has obviously known of this loophole for the past three years but only acted when the auditor general and public and political pressure made him do it.

In yesterday's Toronto Star , the Minister of Industry was quoted as saying that we need more foreign investment and to attract it the federal government will promote the fact that we have very low corporate real tax rates. He pointed out that Canada has the lowest labour costs among the seven leading industrialized nations.

Low corporate taxes and low wage rates; this promotion sounds like it should refer to a poor developing country, not Canada. If low corporate taxes and low wage rates are things the Minister of Finance and the Minister of Industry are bragging about, I say shame.

Telecare Burlington Distress LineStatements By Members

2:05 p.m.

Liberal

Paddy Torsney Liberal Burlington, ON

Mr. Speaker, I am proud to rise today to recognize the achievements of Telecare Burlington Distress Line. Tomorrow marks the 20th anniversary that this volunteer organization has provided crisis care 24 hours a day and seven days a week to Burlington residents.

Under the leadership of Ms. Cheryl Harrison, 160 energetic and compassionate volunteers have listened to and have been supportive of distressed callers. This dedication to fellow citizens, to share the pain of others and to offer sympathy and hope to those in need is the embodiment of the principles of community. These volunteers work without recognition, they work anonymously.

Mr. Speaker and my colleagues, please join me in congratulating this outstanding team of volunteers for their extraordinary commitment to helping others and wish them all the very best for the future. Their work is important. Their work is needed.

Foreign AffairsStatements By Members

2:05 p.m.

Liberal

Gurbax Malhi Liberal Bramalea—Gore—Malton, ON

Mr. Speaker, I have received many, many phone calls from constituents in my riding and Indo-Canadians from across Canada congratulating the Prime Minister, and in a special way, the Minister of Foreign Affairs, on the upcoming opening of a Canadian liaison office in the capital of India's Punjab state. This makes Canada the only foreign country with a presence in the region.

As the most open-minded, tolerant and inclusive party in Canada, the federal Liberal Party remains the party of choice for most new Canadians.

Having taken part in last January's Team Canada trade mission to India and having worked toward this week's news for years, I wish to express my personal gratitude to the Minister of Foreign Affairs, the Minister of Finance and the Prime Minister for this historic step which will be remembered forever in the record books of both India and Canada.

Crosskeys Systems CorporationStatements By Members

2:05 p.m.

Liberal

Ian Murray Liberal Lanark—Carleton, ON

Mr. Speaker, I would like to pay tribute today to Crosskeys Systems Corporation of Kanata.

This morning the Prime Minister was in my riding to officially open a new building for Crosskeys, which is an affiliate of Newbridge Networks.

In addition, Crosskeys received an award which names it as one of Canada's 50 best managed private companies recognizing its commitment to product quality and a team approach to customer relationships.

Crosskeys, founded in 1992, is a very young company. This is a Canadian company that is a success in global markets. Its software and services are at work in telecommunications systems around the world. In just a little more than four years Crosskeys has gone from being a start up to being an established international competitor in

its sector. As it has done this, it has created jobs with a future. It has helped cement the reputation of our community as a hotbed of new technologies.

This is one more example of how the high tech companies in Kanata, our very own silicon valley north, are changing the face of the national capital region and assuring our position of global leadership in the information age economy.

Tribute To Gilles GagnéStatements By Members

October 3rd, 1996 / 2:05 p.m.

Bloc

Stéphane Bergeron Bloc Verchères, QC

Mr. Speaker, I would like to pay tribute today to a deserving fellow citizen of Verchères, Gilles Gagné, from Boucherville, who recently received the Governor General's award in recognition of his outstanding commitment to the underprivileged.

After retiring in 1989, Mr. Gagné dedicated his time and energy to volunteer work at Accueil Bonneau in Montreal. This man, who is an example to us all, is working untiringly at relieving the distress and hardship of those to whom this admirable institution caters. To top it all, he claims his life is enriched by this experience as a volunteer.

Let me tell you how he puts it in his own words. "I see a lot of misery, but I find great satisfaction too. I feel that my work with transients improves their lives a bit".

Mr. Gagné is, for each and every one of us, an example of courage, self-sacrifice and generosity. In a world that is more and more insensitive and individualistic, he is most deserving of this public recognition for his noble contribution to the cause of the underprivileged in our society.

Congratulations, Mr. Gagné.

Land MinesStatements By Members

2:05 p.m.

Reform

Keith Martin Reform Esquimalt—Juan de Fuca, BC

Mr. Speaker, over 110 million of these silent killers claim over 25,000 people's lives every year, primarily innocent civilians. Some are designed to look like toys so that when children pick them up they will have their arms blown off. They are anti-personnel land mines.

Calls are coming in from all over the world for an international ban on these devices. Canada has called for an international ban too, but has failed to do so domestically.

There is no reason whatsoever to use these inhumane weapons. This is backed up by over 80 top military officials from around the world, including General Norman Schwarzkopf and our own General Lewis MacKenzie.

Let us get out of the Jurassic age. I call upon the government to show leadership, do the right thing and call for a domestic ban on land mines and anti-personnel devices. Then we can persuasively do the same internationally.

EthanolStatements By Members

2:10 p.m.

Liberal

Rose-Marie Ur Liberal Lambton—Middlesex, ON

Mr. Speaker, I would like to say how delighted I am with the October 1 announcement by Commercial Alcohols Incorporated that the dream of a $153 million ethanol plant in Chatham, Ontario is now official.

As one of the largest and most efficient in the world, the state of the art, computerized Chatham plant will operate 24 hours a day, seven days a week, 365 days a year, producing over 150 million litres of fuel ethanol and industrial alcohol.

Construction of the plant, which will be operational by next winter, will be a real catalyst for economic renewal in southwestern Ontario. It will provide 400 direct and indirect jobs and a new market for 15 million bushels of locally produced corn each year.

As well, all Canadians will benefit from a renewable, cleaner burning fuel for motorists. It is worth noting that all car manufacturers approve the use of ethanol blends in their warranties.

This announcement is the perfect counterpart to the government's intention to ban the use of MMT in Canadian gasolines, ethanol being the logical replacement as an octane enhancer.

Official LanguagesStatements By Members

2:10 p.m.

Liberal

Warren Allmand Liberal Notre-Dame-De-Grâce, QC

Mr. Speaker, the President of the Treasury Board has just tabled his annual report on the status of the official languages in federal institutions.

I am happy to see that progress has been made at all levels. The number of bilingual employees in the federal public service more than meets the requirements and shows that one out of five public servants has a superior knowledge of his or her second language.

The capacity to serve the public in both official languages has significantly improved. Further to the recommendations made by the Commissioner of Official Languages on language of work in

the national capital, federal institutions took measures which should result in a major improvement.

Program review has not had a negative impact on the level of bilingual services provided to the public, nor on participation rates of anglophones and francophones.

I am happy to note that we are making progress in advancing official languages in federal institutions.

Sea Lamprey Control ProgramStatements By Members

2:10 p.m.

Liberal

Brent St. Denis Liberal Algoma, ON

Mr. Speaker, commercial and sport fishing on the Great Lakes sustains 36,000 jobs and adds $1.5 billion yearly to the economy of Ontario. Uncontrolled, the sea lamprey parasite would decimate many fish species native to the Great Lakes and cause serious economic damage.

This year marks the 40th anniversary of the Canada-U.S. sea lamprey control program and the 30th anniversary of the Sea Lamprey Control Centre in Sault Ste. Marie, Ontario. Since 1954 the work of the program, the centre and its dedicated staff has resulted in a significant reduction in the sea lamprey population.

The federal government recently announced its renewed commitment to sea lamprey control with a contribution of over $5 million in each of the next two years. Our government will work with concerned stakeholders toward a long term funding arrangement for this program. All beneficiaries of this effort are being called upon to contribute to its continued success.

I commend the Minister of Fisheries and Oceans for his commitment to the sea lamprey control program and trust that those who benefit from healthy fish stocks in the Great Lakes will work together to ensure this good work continues.

Canadian Wheat BoardStatements By Members

2:10 p.m.

Reform

Jake Hoeppner Reform Lisgar—Marquette, MB

Mr. Speaker, on Friday the Minister of Agriculture and Agri-food is expected to finally announce if the Liberal government will allow farmers to decide how to market their grain.

An Angus Reid poll commissioned by the minister's own department showed that a majority of farmers supported marketing reforms, including allowing feed barley for export sales to be marketed outside the board. However, in a clearly loaded question, the poll then asked farmers if they supported marketing reforms even if they resulted in a decline in the price they receive for their barley.

Farmers can only cross their fingers and hope that if the minister finally honours his election promise and calls a plebiscite he will frame the question in a manner that is clear, honest and democratic.

I know the minister has trouble making decisions. Let me help him out. The question to all barley growers should be: Do you agree or disagree that participation in the Canadian Wheat Board should be made voluntary?