Debates of Nov. 19th, 1996

Canada Community Investment Program

[Tony Valeri, Liberal, Lincoln, ON]

Mr. Speaker, Hamilton and the surrounding area has been selected by a national board of private sector equity capital specialists to run a Canada community investment program demonstration project.

The CCIP bid, which was spearheaded by Renaissance Economic Initiatives, links eight economically interdependent communities which include the cities of Brantford and Burlington, the regional municipalities of Haldimand-Norfolk and Hamilton-Wentworth, Six Nations of the Grand River, the towns of Grimsby and Lincoln and the township of West Lincoln.

By strengthening access to equity capital for small business in what is now referred as the inter-lake economic corridor, we are creating more opportunities for jobs and growth.

I would like to congratulate Renaissance Economic Initiatives, my caucus colleagues and all the community partners not only for their dedication and hard work in making the CCIP bid successful but also for the model which they have established for future inter-regional partnerships.

Zaire

[Pat O'Brien, Liberal, London—Middlesex, ON]

Mr. Speaker, because of the tragic situation in Zaire and the horrible potential for mass starvation, it was absolutely necessary for the United Nations to intervene.

The Secretary-General of the UN, Mr. Boutros Boutros-Ghali, called on Canada to step forward and lead this crucial humanitarian effort. Canadians believe that this nation has a moral responsibility to do all that we can to prevent the loss of life in central Africa.

I have had considerable input on this crisis from my constituents of London-Middlesex. While there are dissenters, the vast majority of my constituents, and I believe of all Canadians, support our leading this humanitarian effort.

Although we have economic problems at home, Canadians know that our so-called problems pale in comparison to the tragedy in central Africa. Given the rapidly changing nature of this crisis, obviously there is uncertainty about the exact nature of this mission. However, there is no uncertainty about the fact that

Canadians are proud that the government and the nation will do all they can to prevent the loss of life in this troubled region of the world.

Employment And Health

[Gilbert Fillion, Bloc, Chicoutimi, QC]

Mr. Speaker, it is already a well known fact that the poorer people are, the more they risk getting sick. Three medical researchers in my region took this statement one step further, coming up with figures to confirm it.

The Saguenay-Lac-Saint-Jean region lags in the job creation department. Year after year, our region posts the highest rate of unemployment in the country. At the same time, greater use is made of health care services in our region than in others.

The regions' level of economic development must be boosted in order to improve the health of the population. More must be done to create jobs. Putting people back to work will reduce health costs in our region. This is true not only for the Saguenay-Lac-Saint-Jean region but also for all the other regions. It makes sense: give people work, and health costs will go down.

Immigration

[Leon Benoit, Reform, Vegreville, AB]

Mr. Speaker, a federal report commissioned by the immigration department has stated that the immigration processing centre in Vegreville is a haven of sexism and racism. According to Sunday's Toronto Sun the study portrays the town of Vegreville as `a redneck, racist community like something out ofMississippi Burning'''.

Racism and sexism cannot be tolerated. However, the government report portrays the entire community of Vegreville as being racist because of the alleged actions of a few people. By unfairly labelling an entire town, this report is doing to the people of Vegreville what the report claims the people are doing to some of the workers at the centre. Is the government unfairly stereotyping the people of Vegreville for political gain, to have an excuse to move the centre to a Liberal riding?

The truth is that Vegreville is one of the best places in this country in which an immigrant and his family could find a home. Just ask the thousands of immigrants who have done that over the years.

Exports

[Nick Discepola, Liberal, Vaudreuil, QC]

Mr. Speaker, in today's issue of La Presse there is a scoop from journalist Claude Picher, who tells us that exports will experience a remarkable growth over the next five years.

According to Mr. Picher, the Export Development Corporation will release tomorrow its five year projections, and it is expected that the annual growth rate of our exports will be slightly above 8 per cent.

As you know, the Export Development Corporation is a Canadian crown corporation whose primary mandate is to provide financial and risk management services to exporters. According to the EDC, 40 per cent of Canadian production will be exported in the coming years.

Given that exports provide five million jobs in Canada, including 1.2 million in Quebec, we have every reason to be pleased by the EDC's projections.

Bloc Quebecois

[Raymond Bonin, Liberal, Nickel Belt, ON]

Mr. Speaker, Daniel Turp, the chairman of the Bloc Quebecois policy committee said recently, and I quote: "I find the speeches of some militant members of the PQ particularly troubling". He added that there were few hard core PQ members, although they were noisy and influential.

In response to this statement, the leader of the Bloc Quebecois might tell us whether Mr. Turp's statement represented the party's official position on the Parti Quebecois. If this is the case, would the Bloc leader provide details on the sources of friction between his party and that of his former leader, Lucien Bouchard?

The movement of dispute currently dividing militant separatists in the Parti Quebecois and the Bloc makes it very clear that these people are unable to put the interests of the public ahead of their ideological battles.

Ontario Legislature

[Eugène Bellemare, Liberal, Carleton—Gloucester, ON]

Mr. Speaker, I would like to inform the House of a deplorable situation in the Ontario legislature.

A Conservative backbencher apparently demanded an opposition colleague speaking French speak English.

According to a report in the media, this is the third time the Conservatives have made such remarks in the legislature since their election last year.

It is unacceptable that Premier Harris does not intervene in this abusive situation toward the francophone community. And that, under his very nose, in his own legislature.

Great Lakes Region Of Africa

[Michel Gauthier, Bloc, Leader of the Opposition]

Mr. Speaker, there have been further changes in the last few hours in the situation involving the great lakes region of Africa. The United States has just announced that it will not send troops, but will only provide logistical support for the mission being planned.

Rwanda's foreign affairs minister said that he did not feel the mission was necessary other than to ensure that humanitarian aid reaches refugees who have returned home. It would appear that even this statement is not up to date, because the Rwandan government has apparently said in the last few hours, minutes even, that in their view the entire mission is no longer necessary.

My question is for the Prime Minister. Given that all observers apparently feel that American involvement is essential to the success of the mission, and given that the United States has announced that they will not take part, that they will not send ground troops and participate fully, what alternative is planned to ensure the safety of troops and to guarantee the multinational character of the intervention?

[Jean Chrétien, Liberal, Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, as the Leader of the Opposition has said, the situation is evolving very rapidly. According to reports, 500,000 refugees have returned to Rwanda. At this time, General Baril and observers from the United Nations, the United States and elsewhere are assessing the current situation in eastern Zaire, at the border with Rwanda, particularly in the southern part of that region.

When we have the information, we will know exactly how many Rwandan refugees are in Zaire. Will they return to Rwanda? When they go back to Rwanda, they are home and there is no longer any need for military intervention because they are in their own country. It is strictly a question of providing them with humanitarian aid.

The situation is evolving. General Baril, who was appointed to lead the mission, is now in Kigali. There will be a meeting of military commanders in Stuttgart, Germany, on Thursday or Friday chaired by General Baril, for the purpose of evaluating military requirements.

Tomorrow, there will be a meeting of political representatives at the United Nations. That will be held in New York. Saturday, in Geneva, all representatives of countries contributing humanitarian aid will meet to evaluate needs and see what can be done.

As we speak, the mission is still on. The statement to the effect that the United States has announced officially that it will not be present does not match my information. I spoke with Mr. Lake myself yesterday evening. He told me that he and the others were assessing the situation and that he would be in Stuttgart on Thursday, and that a decision would be made at that time. The United States has assured us that it has not changed its basic position.

The situation is changing rapidly and we should be pleased that the refugees have been able to return home without military assistance. I think this is a great achievement that should make everyone happy.

[Michel Gauthier, Bloc, Leader of the Opposition]

Mr. Speaker, I thank the Prime Minister for his information, but there is one point on which I still have a question.

When the Prime Minister tells us that there is no need for any military intervention in the case of the refugees who have gone back to Rwanda, I would like to ask him if the Canadian government has obtained assurances from the Rwandan government that the safety of these people will truly be assured. In our opinion, it is not obvious that these people are necessarily completely safe once they return to Rwanda.

[Jean Chrétien, Liberal, Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, these are Rwandan citizens returning to their own country. Local authorities assure us that measures have been taken to help them return to normal life in their country. This is within their own country.

At this time, the Rwandan government does not want military intervention with respect to its own citizens within its own borders. This is entirely normal under international law.

[Michel Gauthier, Bloc, Leader of the Opposition]

Mr. Speaker, the mission that we supported and that the government set up was for the very purpose of saving lives, of ensuring that food, medicine and water reached all these people, many of whom are in terrible straits. I know that the Prime Minister is concerned about these people.

We have soldiers over there who are being prevented from doing their work. I would like to know what steps the Canadian government has taken, or can take, to ensure that they are in a position to take action. It is far from obvious, just because a certain number of refugees have returned home to Rwanda, first, that they are safe, and, second, that humanitarian aid-the purpose of the mission-water, food and medicine can reach those who have not yet made it

back and those still travelling and dying daily. Is the Prime Minister in a position to ensure that the troops already there can take action?

[Jean Chrétien, Liberal, Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, the information I have is that the Rwandan government welcomes those wishing to provide humanitarian aid. There is no doubt on this score. They will facilitate the movement of people who must travel there to distribute food, clothing, and necessary medication. In this regard, we have the assurance of the Rwandan government that everything will proceed normally. This aid will not necessarily be distributed by the armed forces, but by organizations that can dispense these services.

As for eastern Zaire, a reconnaissance mission is assessing the situation. It is now at the site, accompanied by Rwandan authorities. Flights are also being made over the area to assess population movement. It will be with accurate information about what is taking place that the Stuttgart meeting will be held and a decision taken on the nature of the military intervention, if the need still exists.

[Pierre Brien, Bloc, Témiscamingue, QC]

Mr. Speaker, my question is directed to the Minister of Foreign Affairs.

In light of rapid developments in the situation in Zaire, does the Government of Canada approve of the restricted mandate which the U.S. government and Rwanda seem to want to impose on it, in other words, a mandate that excludes opening and maintaining humanitarian corridors outside Rwanda?

[Lloyd Axworthy, Liberal, Minister of Foreign Affairs]

Mr. Speaker, as the Prime Minister pointed out, it is important to examine the situation in Zaire very carefully. It is very important to share information with other countries that are members of the multinational force. Tomorrow, during the meeting at the UN and later at the meeting in Stuttgart, we will be asked to examine and evaluate what the next step should be in achieving the goals set by the UN last week.

[Pierre Brien, Bloc, Témiscamingue, QC]

Mr. Speaker, considering that the numbers that were to be involved in the multinational force are now, according to current information, being reduced, what is the level of resources, human and otherwise, that the Government of Canada would judge to be essential if this multinational force is to fulfil its mandate effectively?

[Lloyd Axworthy, Liberal, Minister of Foreign Affairs]

Mr. Speaker, as the Prime Minister said to earlier questions and as I just stated, we are looking for better information and intelligences in the southern province of Kivu in Zaire. At this time we know there are a number of refugees there but we do not know how many. We are also not sure whether they will be moving across the border in the next 24 or 48 hours.

As soon as we can evaluate that very carefully we will determine whether the continuing aid for the multinational force to provide a secure environment for humanitarian aid is required or whether the emphasis will be fully shifted to supply that humanitarian aid to Rwanda.

We will certainly keep the House informed. I offered yesterday to maintain an ongoing consultation through the committee system. We will make sure that as each development takes place Parliament is made fully aware of each development.

[Deborah Grey, Reform, Beaver River, AB]

Mr. Speaker, the government's aid mission in Zaire seems to be all over the map. The immediate crisis is over. We know that and are glad for that, but humanitarian aid is still required, as was just mentioned.

The disaster assistance relief team is stuck in Uganda and our soldiers have not even been allowed past the airport in Rwanda.

Will the Prime Minister explain to the House just what our mission to Central Africa is and what efforts he is making to ensure the safety of our Canadian troops?

[Jean Chrétien, Liberal, Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, the mandate is very clear. The mandate has been given to an international force to go into Central Africa to help provide food, medication, shelter and other needs to the refugees. At this time we are all on the side of Zaire.

I am happy to see that the representative of the third party realizes that probably half of the refugees are back in their country of Rwanda and others are moving. At this moment a survey is being made by a team in eastern Zaire to evaluate the situation to find out what is happening to the refugees who are still there. We are told by the Government of Rwanda that it will open the southern part to let the refugees into Rwanda in the days to come.

By the end of the operation we will know if there are still some Rwandan refugees in Zaire. If there are none, the problem will become strictly humanitarian. As I said earlier, the Government of Rwanda is willing and eager to receive help from all the countries that want to contribute to this settlement of the people coming back home after two or three years.

It may be that in the next three or four days we will be in a position where the armed forces will not be required any more. At this moment the Canadian soldiers who are in Kigali are completely safe and in no danger. They are awaiting the evaluation that will be made by General Baril and the other military officials involved. They will be meeting in Stuttgart, Germany on Thursday or Friday and the decision will be made at that time about what kind of forces and who outside Canada will be contributing.

The British are contributing and the Americans say they will be there and many others. I was on the phone with President Mandela a few minutes ago discussing the matter. He wants to be there and he wants to have a strong African participation in the effort.

[Deborah Grey, Reform, Beaver River, AB]

Mr. Speaker, certainly the safety of our troops should be one of the government's top priorities.

We were invited into Bosnia and Haiti. Yet Canadians still suffered over 120 casualties in Bosnia, including 12 deaths.

Rwanda, as the Prime Minister said, is still refusing military troops and the armed forces. Eritrea is opposing our involvement and South Africa is no longer willing to commit troops, as we understand it. It is not clear how welcome the Canadian troops are.

Will the Prime Minister ensure to Canadians that he will not commit Canadian troops beyond the immediate relief team there already until African countries agree to and support our involvement there?

[Jean Chrétien, Liberal, Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, the resolution at the security council last week was unanimous. When the meeting was called by Canadians before the resolution, we expected to have 25 countries show up, and 75 came and everybody was very eager to have a resolution adopted and everybody wanted to find out what kind of contribution they could make.

As I said earlier, the actual commitment of troops will be discussed in Germany on Thursday or Friday. Depending on the evaluation of the situation, a decision will be made by the military officers who are in charge. As of this moment, the meeting has been called by General Baril, a Canadian, who received a mandate from the security council to prepare troops if military intervention is needed.

[Deborah Grey, Reform, Beaver River, AB]

Mr. Speaker, we hope that when that decision is made it is a practical decision, not a political one.

There is a human cost that is paid every time we send our troops into theatres of action. They are the best in the world and we support our military without reservation. The government, however, must not over extend our military reach. Many military analysts are saying that Canadians and Canadian troops should not be supporting another military engagement.

The Prime Minister knows that Canadians need to make an informed decision regarding committing Canadian troops to Zaire. Will the Prime Minister tell us whether he plans to scale back our commitments in Bosnia and Haiti?

[Jean Chrétien, Liberal, Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, three years ago we had more than 4,300 Canadian troops committed abroad. They were stationed in the former Yugoslavia, Cyprus and so on. At this very moment we have about 2,000 troops in Bosnia, Haiti and Africa. This is less than half the amount of people who were committed three years ago.

I have been informed by the Minister of National Defence that to commit more troops to Africa at this time is not outside the capacity of the military. In all the discussions we have had, the Canadian military is very well respected around the world. I was very confident in asking it to take the lead and go to Zaire.

Tokamak Project

[Stéphane Bergeron, Bloc, Verchères, QC]

Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Prime Minister.

By participating in the Tokamak project, Canada is making a 1 per cent contribution to the international nuclear fusion research effort. The Prime Minister is no doubt aware that this 1 per cent contribution gives Canada access to 100 per cent of all developments in this area of research and that his unfortunate decision to cut Tokamak's funding by $7.2 million will exclude us completely from this very promising area of research.

I call on the Prime Minister's common sense. Given the fundamental importance of this project and the extremely positive impact it will have on Quebec's economy, would the Prime Minister not consider personally interceding to find the $7.2 million necessary to carry on such an important research project?

[Anne McLellan, Liberal, Minister of Natural Resources]

Mr. Speaker, as I have told the hon. member a number of times in this House, very difficult decisions have had to be made during the exercise of program review and returning fiscal order to the books of the nation. AECL has not been immune from these very difficult exercises.

As I have explained to the hon. member on a number of occasions, fusion research is not a priority for this government. Therefore when we have to make tough fiscal decisions, we have to decide what our priorities are and we have decided. I think the hon. member understands the reasons why we made the decision we made.