Debates of Nov. 22nd, 1996

Employment

[Paul Devillers, Liberal, Simcoe North, ON]

Mr. Speaker, I am pleased to speak in the House on the matter of employment.

Many Canadians, including me, are concerned about the employment situation in Canada. Jobs are a source of income and dignity for Canadians. Jobs are also crucial to the economic well-being of this country and remain one of my top priorities.

To create more jobs we must get Canada's public finances under control. The reduction of the deficit is of course essential to job creation and growth. The present government is well on its way to meet its targets and the country's economy is already reaping the benefits through the lowest interest rates since 1964.

I am happy that the economy has created 669,000 jobs since the Liberals took office. Even though this number bodes well, I will continue to work with the government and to encourage it to put in place programs that will lead to the creation of more jobs to the benefit of all Canadians, including the constituents of Simcoe North.

Environmental Illness

[Beryl Gaffney, Liberal, Nepean, ON]

Mr. Speaker, do these symptoms sound familiar to you: feeling tired and sleepy 30 minutes after eating, muscle pain, bruising, extreme fatigue or feeling flu-like after exposure to pesticides or chemicals, irritation of the eyes or throat, breathing problems and head fogginess after contact with new carpet or furnishings, recurrent urinary problems, hyperactivity after meals, recurrent upper respiratory tract or ear infections, and depression.

These are symptoms of environmental illness. To mark National Child Day on November 20 the Environmental Illness Society of Canada had a picture drawing contest to educate Canadian children about the potential consequences of environmental pollution on human health.

Recognizing these signs is one of the first steps in maintaining good health and assuring our children a healthy future. Congratulations to all who participated and who have helped to build awareness of this illness.

Pay Equity

[Maud Debien, Bloc, Laval East, QC]

Mr. Speaker, yesterday the Quebec National Assembly unanimously adopted the Pay Equity Act, one of the most advanced pieces of legislation to be adopted by any parliament ever.

It is with great pride that we salute the work done by all parties on this question. Women and men have worked without respite to make governments acknowledge the existence of wage discrimination based on sex and find a solution to the problem.

We wish to express our affection for Louise Harel who stayed the course in choppy seas; we wish to express our gratitude to Monique Gagnon-Tremblay for her support and understanding; and finally, we wish to salute the Parti Quebecois government for keeping its word and bringing in a bill that is so important to the future of women of Quebec.

Royal Commission On Aboriginal Peoples

[Cliff Breitkreuz, Reform, Yellowhead, AB]

Mr. Speaker, the Royal Commission on Aboriginal Peoples missed a golden opportunity to start Canadian Indians on a different course. Instead, the commission's recommendations amount to nothing more than forcing natives to become permanent wards of the government.

The net result would simply enlarge by $2 billion a year what already exists. This would include a bigger bureaucracy, bigger undemocratic associations, more and higher paid lawyers and consultants; in short, a much enlarged Indian industry.

Current unemployment levels on reserves are pegged at 47 per cent. More money means even less incentive which will result in greater dependency on the state. Unemployment on reserves would soar even higher if these recommendations were accepted.

The recommendations divide Canadians on the basis of race. They call for the setting up of an aboriginal house of Parliament. The more we examine the report, the more it looks like a 1950s South Africa document. When is this lunacy going to stop?

Language Question

[Nick Discepola, Liberal, Vaudreuil, QC]

Mr. Speaker, the language question has always been a very important one for all Canadians.

The reason is simple: language is an essential component of a people's identity. In Quebec, it is a major factor of our history, our development and our sense of belonging to our country.

A study by the Conseil de la langue française published yesterday reveals that the use of French in commercial signs has begun to stabilize.

We know that the linguistic balance will always be fragile in a region like Montreal. Above all, however, we are in favour of a balanced approach to promoting an asset as fundamental as the language of a people. We are also in favour not only of measures to promote the survival of the French language but also of those that will strengthen it and so improve the cultural quality of life in Quebec and everywhere else in Canada.

Infrastructure

[Lee Morrison, Reform, Swift Current—Maple Creek—Assiniboia, SK]

Mr. Speaker, on Monday the two lane Trans-Canada death trap between Gull Lake, Saskatchewan and the Alberta border claimed yet another life when a pick-up truck slammed into a jack-knifed semi-trailer. This raises the death toll on that short section to 25 in 16 years.

Liberals have no trouble funding the distribution of free flags or topping up the treasuries of Liberal friendly companies, but they cannot find the money to save lives by contributing the federal share to complete our national highway system.

The government collects $5 billion annually in fuel taxes and siphons 90 per cent of it into general revenue. Given the deplorable state of the national highway system not only in Saskatchewan but in northern Ontario and in Labrador as well, how can this blatant misappropriation of funds be justified?

Aeronautics Sector

[Raymond Bonin, Liberal, Nickel Belt, ON]

Mr. Speaker, recently the government announced economic news that is very important, not only for the future of Bombardier but also for the future of the entire aeronautics sector.

By granting this company an interest-free loan, the Canadian government is acting in accordance with the objective to create jobs in the Montreal area. And more important, prospects for the type transportation products built by Bombardier will be excellent in the years to come.

This is the kind of concrete action we need to protect the economic future of a major region in Canada, in an industry where future prospects in terms of jobs and increased investment are excellent.

In this way, the Canadian government is helping to improve the quality of life of all Canadians.

Department Of Canadian Heritage

[Jim Abbott, Reform, Kootenay East, BC]

Mr. Speaker, the heritage minister boasts about the success of giving away so-called free Canadian flags. However, the costs of these free flags was originally estimated at $6 million. Now the minister says she is saving us $8 million because they are only going to be costing $15 million. Now that is what we call Liberal mathematics.

But wait, what is this? Unsolicited flags. That is right. The heritage minister's department is so anxious to hit one million flags by next February it is sending out unrequested flags-unsolicited, unrequested flags. Yet at the same time, the minister will not even return correspondence from Canadians like Robert Harriman at Kap-tan-Kool in Penticton who wants to turn over all his profits from a patriotic unity hat manufactured in British Columbia.

Compare that to the reports that Heritage Canada distributed patriotic T-shirts at a Montreal Alouette football game, T-shirts manufactured in Mexico, imprinted in the U.S., distributed in Quebec and paid for by Canadian taxpayers.

Gee, I sure hope all the flags are made in Canada.

Aboriginal Peoples

[Gilles Duceppe, Bloc, Laurier—Sainte-Marie, QC]

Mr. Speaker, the Dussault-Erasmus report says that native bands must be recognized as aboriginal nations. The government is still dragging its heels as far as giving them this recognition is concerned. Since 1983, however, the Government of Quebec has recognized its native peoples as distinct nations entitled to their own culture, language and customs.

Can the minister tell us whether the federal government intends to recognize aboriginals as distinct nations?

[Ron Irwin, Liberal, Minister of Indian Affairs and Northern Development]

Mr. Speaker, if the hon. member looked at the history, he would realize we have always recognized aboriginal people as being distinct in this country.

Unfortunately being recognized as distinct has not enhanced their well-being. Right now they are looking to be up at a level table with their fellow Canadians. However, they have been here for 10,000 years. There is legislation and more constitutional and legal responsibility to deal with aboriginal peoples as distinct.

[Gilles Duceppe, Bloc, Laurier—Sainte-Marie, QC]

Mr. Speaker, it would be useful, as the commission report points out, to do so officially, because this is not the case. Otherwise, the report would not have raised this issue.

It is difficult, I think, for the federal government to recognize the existence of distinct nations. We know this is so for Quebec, and we can see it in the case of native peoples as well.

I ask the minister whether he will agree, as a first step in negotiations with native peoples, to table a motion in the House recognizing aboriginals as distinct nations, just as Quebec did over ten years ago? I can tell him in advance that he can count on the support of the official opposition if he tables such a motion.

[Ron Irwin, Liberal, Minister of Indian Affairs and Northern Development]

Mr. Speaker, this government has no intention of playing the game of the Reform which is analogizing sovereignty and separation with the stigmas within the Canadian federal system.

[Gilles Duceppe, Bloc, Laurier—Sainte-Marie, QC]

Mr. Speaker, if the government makes its decisions as a legislator by trying to avoid the Reform Party's "games", to use the minister's word, I can tell you we will not get very far as a society.

A number of provinces have still not recognized native peoples as distinct nations. Will the minister undertake to promote Quebec's initiative with those provinces that have still not given this recognition, so that they will join forces with the federal government in this essential recognition of native peoples as nations in order to set the stage for any serious negotiations? That is the first step, to recognize that they exist as nations, and then to begin negotiations. This is what natives are calling for, it is what the report recommends, Quebec has done it, and I urge the minister to do the same on a federal level and take this message to the provinces in order to encourage them as well to follow Quebec's example.

[Ron Irwin, Liberal, Minister of Indian Affairs and Northern Development]

Mr. Speaker, I want to apologize for suggesting that their idea of federation is anything like the separatists that I face.

The resolution of the assembly from René Lévesque may have said this, but in fact the separatists of Quebec feel-as said by various ministers in Quebec-that they have the right to take the 10 aboriginal communities and the Inuit with them if they decide to unilaterally secede from Canada. This is not the law. We do not accept it. It is in the Supreme Court of Canada and hopefully the separatist government will pay the same attention to the Supreme Court of Canada on UDI that they want us to pay to the Churchill Falls litigation.

[Claude Bachand, Bloc, Saint-Jean, QC]

Mr. Speaker, my question is also for the minister of Indian affairs.

Yesterday, in response to a question, the Indian affairs minister claimed, and I quote "As the Prime Minister said when he had this job, we made a lot of mistakes on their behalf through the Indian agents. It is time for them to make a few mistakes on their own". The federal government is slow in admitting its mistakes relating to the abuse of aboriginal children in residential schools.

As many native bands are asking, does the federal government intend to admit its responsibility in this shameful history of abuse, and to make official apologies to the victims in the aboriginal communities?

[Ron Irwin, Liberal, Minister of Indian Affairs and Northern Development]

Mr. Speaker, the premise is not correct. I am not going to give the history of the last three years. I will just give the history of the last three weeks.

In the last three weeks we have admitted our mistakes collectively in Labrador. We are reaching agreement with the Inuit of Davis Inlet on relocation. We have admitted our mistakes north of the 60th parallel by not allowing First Nations to come to the negotiating table when we are talking about minerals. We have a package, BHP in the territories and Treaty No. 8 and Treaty No. 11 of which the federal government is proud.

Two weeks ago in Saskatchewan we admitted our mistakes. In the provinces of Saskatchewan and B.C. we say there is an inherent right of First Nations. I would be the first to admit that we have made mistakes in the past and I would be the first as a representative of this government to go out there and try to do our best to remedy those mistakes.

[Claude Bachand, Bloc, Saint-Jean, QC]

Mr. Speaker, this may well be question period, but it is certainly not an answer period. At least four questions have been asked of the minister, and he has sidestepped them all.

To get back to residential schools. Residential schools weakened aboriginal culture, weakened aboriginal languages, weakened aboriginal traditions. I have a serious question to ask of the minister. I am asking him to give me an answer.

How can the minister deny the government's responsibility-we are asking him to acknowledge it, not deny it-when, thirty years ago, in the days of the residential schools, the government had recognized in court that residential school staff were employees of the crown. Let it then acknowledge its responsibility.

[Ron Irwin, Liberal, Minister of Indian Affairs and Northern Development]

Mr. Speaker, the member wants a direct answer to a direct question. He is right.

[Garry Breitkreuz, Reform, Yorkton—Melville, SK]

Mr. Speaker, yesterday the Minister of Indian Affairs and Northern Development misled Canadians about Reform's principles and policies related to aboriginal peoples.

The minister mocked our suggestion that individual aboriginal people be given a choice about where they want their money sent. Do they want their money sent to the chief and council or do they want to receive the money directly from the federal government?

Why is the minister afraid to make treaty entitlements payable directly to grassroots Indian people?

[Ron Irwin, Liberal, Minister of Indian Affairs and Northern Development]

Mr. Speaker, I will play it a little slower for the hon. member.

In our relationship with governments, whether it is Alberta or B.C., on the transfers that the Minister of Finance makes with our programs, we deal with governments. They decide whether they are going to build hospitals or schools.

Is the Reform suggesting that we send all of the people in B.C. a cheque directly from the Minister of Finance, leaving us broke and leaving the provincial government broke? That does not work.

What Reform is suggesting is that we send $10,000 to each native, which means that there is nothing in my budget, nothing in the Minister of Health's budget and nothing in the Minister of Justice's budget. That is what the Reform is suggesting.

[Val Meredith, Reform, Surrey—White Rock—South Langley, BC]

What a shame.

[Philip Mayfield, Reform, Cariboo—Chilcotin, BC]

You are smarter than that.

[Ron Irwin, Liberal, Sault Ste. Marie, ON]

I am smarter than that. It is too bad that the Reform member is not smarter than that. That is what he said on TV yesterday.

[Garry Breitkreuz, Reform, Yorkton—Melville, SK]

Mr. Speaker, the comments of the minister make it abundantly clear that the minister is afraid to cut funds to the Indian industry.

On page 39 of volume 5 of the royal commission's report it states that in 1992-93 government expenditures relating to the aboriginal people were $15,714 for every man, woman and child. That is before adding in increases in federal funding since that time which total $1.5 billion.

Can the minister tell Canadians how much of this cash actually finds its way into the hands of grassroots Indian people living on the reserves?

[Ron Irwin, Liberal, Minister of Indian Affairs and Northern Development]

Mr. Speaker, it is mistruths or misinformation that the Reform is putting out. I will go slowly or maybe we can put it into cartoons so the Reform will understand it.

When a school is built worth $10 million to $12 million, the Reform has taken that money for that school vis-à-vis Indians and said that every Indian gets $15,000. That is not a fact. In fact schools are built with it. Sewers are built with it. Water systems are built with it. All these things are done to help all the public on the reserves. That does not mean that an individual Indian gets $15,000 any more than it means that because Parliament Buildings are here the cost of these Parliament Buildings is $10,000 or $15,000 in the pocket of each Canadian.