Mr. Speaker, I listened to the remarks made by the members who have taken part in this debate so far, and the only conclusion that can be drawn is that the system in which we live is very complex.
Let us take as an example people who live in Quebec. They get married in Quebec and they have children in Quebec. If the marriage does not work, they separate in Quebec. But if they want a divorce, then they fall under Ottawa's jurisdiction.
You will understand that, as a member of the Bloc, I would be inclined to tell you without any hesitation that the federal government should completely withdraw from this area. However, as we have said many times before, as long as we are part of this system, we will try to improve it as best we can under the Constitution.
And unfortunately, under the Constitution as it is now, the Divorce Act is a federal statute. Therefore, as good members of Parliament and as responsible people, since the Bloc Quebecois is the official opposition, we must try to improve this legislation to respond to the concerns I personally heard when I sat on the Standing Committee on Justice and Legal Affairs, concerns expressed by women's groups and also by the provinces, because this bill has indeed several major flaws. That is why the Bloc Quebecois, as a responsible party and as the official opposition, is trying to improve this legislation.
However, it seems that the members opposite do not understand what we want even though it is simple. Our goal, which should also be the goal of the government, is to protect the children. I heard the minister of Justice himself say that Bill C-41 aimed at correcting injustices against children.
I believe that all motions introduced by the Bloc Quebecois aim precisely in that direction and are in response to requests made by people, women and interest groups heard by the committee.
This government does not seem to listen much to what we say. Yet, it is crystal clear that we want is for the good of children. The government should understand that. We introduced a motion proposing that the place of residence for guideline purposes be the child's residence. It must be clear that support payments are to be paid to women or men who are taking care of their children, whatever province they come from, including Quebec. They must know in advance, whatever may happen, that the place of residence will be the place where the children are living.
We have introduced a motion but I am pretty sure the government will oppose it. Why? Because it is proposed by the Bloc Quebecois. Yet, it is precisely within the same line and goal. We have also introduced an amendment to take all discretionary powers away from the federal government, because we want Quebec and the National Assembly to decide on guidelines. If the National Assembly presents guidelines, we want the federal government to have no other choice but to accept them.
How will the government react to this motion? It will reject it. Why? Probably because it was proposed by the Bloc and not by it. Yet, this proposal follows along the lines of other proposals heard before. I know that this is what the National Assembly very much wants. We want government to have no choice.
We also moved a motion regarding vested rights. We do not want the federal government to change the rules on us. We do not want things to go one way under the Liberals and another way under the Conservatives. We want to reassure people and we only have one purpose in mind, protecting children. What is the government going to do about it? It is going to vote against it, I am quite sure of it.
Furthermore, we moved a motion to delete the infamous "or other cause" in one clause. What does "or other cause" mean? This means that any given day the government might decide, by order in council, to add to the eligibility criteria. Or, depending on its mood, it might just as well decide to eliminate some of them. All we want is to protect the children. We want to know exactly where we are going, how the courts are going to apply the applicable guidelines to all concerned.
Finally, we moved two of the motions in this group, Motions Nos 6 and 9, which are aimed at protecting children. Is it right-I see the member for Québec is nodding in agreement, I believe she agrees with me-to set guidelines and to provide, as does Bill C-41, that with the parents' consent the amount of support might be below that set in the guidelines? Is it right? Does it protect children? No, it does not.
Suppose that, according to the guidelines, the children of a divorced couple are entitled to $150 a week in support payment, is it right for the judge to award the children, with the spouses' consent, $75 a week? Is it right to go to the trouble of developing guidelines, and then, after negotiations in the court's back rooms, sometimes under pressure or even duress, to have a ruling which does not respect them?
I have witnessed women being threatened. It is mostly women and children we want to protect. On occasion, I saw women coming to court in the morning, their mind made up. They had come there that day determined to get so much in support payments, fully intending to fight for their children's sake.
Following negotiations and after extremely long delays, sometimes you get to the court house in the morning and you cannot tell when you will leave because of emotions and all sorts of considerations; sometimes the lawyers and the spouses agree and the amount finally granted is considerably lower than what the party seeking alimony had decided to ask for in the morning. Those are the rules.
Also, it is often the squeaky wheel, the most forceful lawyer who will win. As you know, all sorts of things happen in the court house. Is it usual to approve all that? This is what the government is proposing with Bill C-41 and the clauses we want to delete. We want to remedy that situation with Motions Nos. 6 and 9. Is it usual, as I have just said, to condone the actions of lawyers?
What I want to say is, is it usual to perpetuate that way of doing things? This is what the government is doing. If the spouses agree, the court can determine an amount different from the one which would apply according to pertinent guidelines. We know quite well that the bill already says there will be no problem if the amount is higher than what would be determined with the guidelines. The goal is simple: to help the children.
The guidelines say $150 a week; the husband and wife agree on $200 a week. Who will benefit? The children. Then the goal is reached. The judge has no say. He can only go along with the agreement. But, the reverse is also true. These clauses we want to delete would allow the judge to make a ruling along the lines of an agreement whereby children would receive less than what the guidelines provide. That is unacceptable.
I see the justice minister is listening. I think he realizes there is a flaw in this bill. I hope that when the time comes to vote on Bill C-41, and on Motions Nos 6 and 9 presented by my colleague the member for Quebec, the government will change its mind and decide to support these motions whose ultimate purpose is to protect children.