Debates of March 27th, 1996

Fisheries

[Fred Mifflin, Liberal, Minister of Fisheries and Oceans]

Mr. Speaker, I do thank that the hon. member for her question. The Atlantic shellfish fishery is a very vibrant part of the Atlantic fishery and of the Atlantic economy as a whole.

In recent years prices have increased substantially and the landings have been up. The indications are that prices were pretty stable last year. Early indications are that they will be stable over this season as well.

In addition, the landings are not expected to fluctuate over the period of time that we are looking at. For the Nova Scotia economy, the shellfish landings represent 40 per cent of the quantity of fish and 80 per cent of the total fisheries landing.

This resource is so important that efforts will be taken to make sure that strict conservation measures are applied and the quotas will be given in a fair and reasonable manner.

Unemployment Insurance Fund

[Yvan Loubier, Bloc, Saint-Hyacinthe—Bagot, QC]

Mr. Speaker, last year, more than 25 per cent of the contributions paid by employers and employees into the UI fund, or $5 billion out of $18 billion, were used for purposes other than providing assistance to the unemployed. The Minister of Finance will divert another $5 billion this year, and more than $5 billion next year to reduce his deficit at the expense of the unemployed.

Why does the minister persist in calling UI premiums money that no longer goes back to the unemployed and which, in fact, constitutes a hidden tax?

[Paul Martin, Liberal, Minister of Finance]

Mr. Speaker, when we came to power, the UI fund was running a deficit in excess of $6 billion. By the end of 1995, this deficit had turned into a surplus of approximately $735 million. It certainly is not more than $1 billion today. We have made it very clear that we wanted to build a cushion to protect the workers in times of economic decline.

The hon. member talks about diverting funds and that sort of thing. Look, we do not even have a $1 billion surplus to spend on Canadian workers.

[Yvan Loubier, Bloc, Saint-Hyacinthe—Bagot, QC]

Mr. Speaker, why is it then that, last week, senior officials at the Treasury Board and the assistant auditor general confirmed our fear, a fear we have had for the past six months, of seeing employer and employee contributions used to replenish the federal government's consolidated revenue fund like any other tax or revenue collected by the federal government. Someone somewhere is not telling the whole truth.

In this context, I would like to ask the Minister of Finance the following question: Could he confirm that his government's refusal to transfer any active employment measure to the Government of Quebec may have been motivated not only by his own centralizing designs and those of the Minister of Human Resources Development, but also by the fact that this would create a shortfall of a few hundred million dollars in the federal government's annual budgetary revenue, letting its real deficit show a bit more?

[Paul Martin, Liberal, Minister of Finance]

Mr. Speaker, I can only repeat once again that UI premiums have been used to absorb the deficit, which amounted to about $6 billion. Today, the surplus does not exceed $1 billion.

It is obvious that the funds were not used for any purpose other than to make up the deficit we had inherited.

Now, the deficit, I mean the hon. member-

[Some hon. members]

Ha!

[Paul Martin, Liberal, LaSalle—Émard, QC]

There is no difference.

[Some hon. members]

Oh, oh.

[Paul Martin, Liberal, LaSalle—Émard, QC]

No, no, I meant to say the hon. member. It was a slip of the tongue, Mr. Speaker; I take it back.

This is a matter of accounting. In 1986, the auditor general insisted that the UI fund was part of the federal government's consolidated account. It is purely a matter of accounting. We are only following the auditor general's instructions. If the auditor general is prepared to instruct us otherwise, we are prepared to sit down with him. But this is all a matter of accounting. This is unfamiliar ground for an economist.

National Defence

[Jack Frazer, Reform, Saanich—Gulf Islands, BC]

Mr. Speaker, the information commissioner has found that officers in national defence headquarters altered and destroyed documents relating to the Somalia affair to prevent them becoming public.

He stressed that this deception was deliberate and the result of clear and direct orders. How can the House, the commissioners on the Somalia inquiry, or the Canadian public believe anything this minister or his department says when his officials are proven guilty of this kind of cover up?

[David Collenette, Liberal, Minister of National Defence and Minister of Veterans Affairs]

Mr. Speaker, I would like to remind the hon. member that it was the deputy minister of defence who drew this matter to the attention of the information commissioner immediately upon learning of the irregularities.

We welcome the report of the information commissioner. Indeed, his findings and the facts in his report are consistent with those that have been revealed in the military police investigations.

All of the matters addressed by Mr. Grace in his letter to the deputy minister have either been addressed or are being addressed.

[Jack Frazer, Reform, Saanich—Gulf Islands, BC]

Mr. Speaker, I believe the department was dragged kicking and screaming into the arena to declare this information.

The information commissioner advises in his report that he gave the Minister of National Defence the names of those "who gave clear and direct orders to destroy all original versions" and the names of those "vigilant, courageous and honourable employees of national defence, both military and civilian, who delayed in obeying".

What has the minister done to punish those who gave the orders? What has he done to ensure the protection of those who did the right thing?

[David Collenette, Liberal, Minister of National Defence and Minister of Veterans Affairs]

Mr. Speaker, with respect to the kicking and screaming, I would like to quote from a letter written by Mr. Grace to the deputy minister: "There is a silver lining to the cloud which these cases represent for national defence. The wrongdoing which occurred was first brought to my attention by the deputy minister of defence". In other words, it was brought to the attention of the commissioner by the department itself. There was no kicking, screaming or dragging.

Obviously this is a disconcerting series of events and all of those matters will be addressed.

What the hon. member has also failed to reveal in the House is that his party, together with members of the national media, maligned the present chief of defence staff. Mr. Grace in his letter has since said that the chief of defence staff, General Boyle, has had nothing whatsoever to do with any of the wrongdoings.

I expect apologies from the Reform Party and the national media with respect to the actions taken against the chief of defence staff.

Pacific Salmon Treaty

[Svend Robinson, NDP, Burnaby—Kingsway, BC]

Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Minister of Fisheries and Oceans. It concerns the very serious Pacific salmon treaty impasse. Salmon is of vital importance to the B.C. economy.

Will the minister make public the report of the mediator that was rejected by Alaska and the United States? Will he push for binding arbitration of this dispute? Should this fail, will the minister stand up for Canada and take tough measures from rigorous customs inspections of U.S. vessels up to a transit fee as suggested by Premier Glen Clark? Will he stand up for Canada?

[Fred Mifflin, Liberal, Minister of Fisheries and Oceans]

Mr. Speaker, the hon. member's question does represent the sensitivity of this issue with fishermen in British Columbia. I am very sensitive to that. I have been there twice and have spoken with them and I will be going out again soon.

The hon. member is aware that as we speak, the Minister of Foreign Affairs is in the United States. He will be discussing both with the Secretary of the Interior and the Secretary of State, Mr. Christopher, exactly the points the member is making.

I want to reassure the hon. member and those fishermen on the west coast of British Columbia who are so concerned that we will do whatever is considered necessary to ensure that the principle of equity, which is their concern with salmon, is achieved. The best arrangement possible will be made for this year through the Pacific Salmon Commission and in future years as a result of tough negotiations with our neighbours as necessary.

Point Of Order

[Jean Chrétien, Liberal, Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, I wish to inform the House that when we came here this afternoon, 56 Canadian citizens on board an aircraft in Egypt had been kidnapped and flown to Libya. I am pleased to announce that they have now been freed and that all are safe and sound.

Government Response To Petitions

[Paul Zed, Liberal, Parliamentary Secretary to Leader of the Government in the House of Commons]

Madam Speaker, pursuant to Standing Order 36(8), I have the honour to table in both official languages the government's response to two petitions which were presented during the first session.

Committees Of The House

[Paul Zed, Liberal, Parliamentary Secretary to Leader of the Government in the House of Commons]

Madam Speaker, I have the honour to present the 11th report of the Standing Committee on Procedure and House Affairs regarding the membership of the Standing Committee on Citizenship and Immigration and the Standing Committee on Human Rights and the Status of Persons with Disabilities and associate memberships of some committees. If the House gives its consent, I intend to move concurrence in this 11th report later this day.

Criminal Code

[Christiane Gagnon, Bloc, Québec, QC]

moved for leave to introduce Bill C-246, an act to amend the Criminal Code (sexual exploitation of children outside Canada).

Madam Speaker, this bill seeks to amend the Criminal Code concerning child sexual exploitation abroad. Right now, Canada cannot prosecute an individual who is a Canadian resident. This bill would make it possible to prosecute anyone who commits such a crime abroad. It seeks to prohibit the sexual abuse of minor children abroad. It also seeks to introduce the principle of extraterritoriality, which would allow Canada to prosecute a person. The bill would also make it an offence for a person to be involved in the transportation of individuals going on a trip abroad for sexual purposes.

(Motion deemed adopted, bill read the first time and printed.)

[Paul Forseth, Reform, New Westminster—Burnaby, BC]

moved for leave to introduce Bill C-247, an act to amend the Criminal Code (trespass).

Madam Speaker, it is my pleasure to introduce this bill. I have received numerous complaints that persons are trespassing on property causing a public disturbance and destroying a sense of community and liveability for children, yet are unable to be removed permanently. For example, we know that malls are a popular place for youth to hang out. If the security of the mall is forced to remove a problem person, that person can re-enter the mall within minutes. The only way the person can be charged is if they resist. Therefore if the person never resists, the act could continue over and over.

There is a serious technical gap in the law which has been identified by the New Westminster city police in my riding as they have a storefront office in a local mall.

To come to the aid of the community which is being subjected to this loophole in the law, I am proposing an amendment to section 41 of the Criminal Code, making it a summary conviction for a person who has already been lawfully removed from real property or a dwelling house not to be able to lawfully return for 24 hours.

The Criminal Code is full of gaps like this one and while this bill may only fill one of the holes, it is certainly a good start. Our laws need to support the law-abiding citizen rather than provide a legal invitation for repeated mischief without ensuing consequences.

(Motions deemed adopted, bill read the first time and printed.)

[Paul Forseth, Reform, New Westminster—Burnaby, BC]

moved for leave to introduce Bill C-248, an act to amend the Criminal Code (prostitution).

Madam Speaker, it is my pleasure to introduce this bill in the House.

In my riding of New Westminster-Burnaby prostitution is a problem. Constituents are very concerned. They feel the only action taken so far was to move the prostitutes from one side of the railway track to the other, and I say that in a literal sense.

My community asked me to represent it and to take real action from the federal standpoint. My constituents want amendments made to the Criminal Code in order to make penalties tougher and control easier.

Currently in section 213 of the Criminal Code public communication to obtain sexual services only carries a penalty of summary conviction.

(Motions deemed adopted, bill read the first time and printed.)

Nuclear Liability Act

[Warren Allmand, Liberal, Notre-Dame-De-Grâce, QC]

moved for leave to introduce Bill C-249, an act to amend the Nuclear Liability Act.

Madam Speaker, under the Nuclear Liability Act a private nuclear facility is now required to carry $75 million in insurance to cover damage from facility breakdowns and other accidents. This bill would increase that amount to $500 million and could oblige the crown to pay damages above that level.

We must remember that the damages from the Three Mile Island nuclear breakdown a few years ago amounted to $3 billion and damages from Chernobyl amounted to $14 billion.

(Motions deemed adopted, bill read the first time and printed.)

Parliament Of Canada Act

[Elwin Hermanson, Reform, Kindersley—Lloydminster, SK]

moved for leave to introduce Bill C-250, an act to amend the Parliament of Canada Act and the Canada Elections Act.

Madam Speaker, currently under the Parliament of Canada Act and the Canada Elections Act the Prime Minister has complete latitude in determining when general elections and byelections will be held. This is unacceptable to Canadians who want a little more certainty as to when they will go to the ballot box.

This bill would not contravene the Constitution Act of Canada, but would make changes to existing legislation so there would be fixed elections. General elections would generally be held every four years and byelections could only be held in the fall or the spring of the year, thus bringing certainty to a very uncertain era.

(Motions deemed adopted, bill read the first time and printed.)

Committees Of The House

[Paul Zed, Liberal, Parliamentary Secretary to Leader of the Government in the House of Commons]

Madam Speaker, if the House gives it consent, I move:

That the 11th report of the Standing Committee on Procedure and House Affairs which was presented to the House earlier this day be concurred in.

[The Acting Speaker (Mrs. Ringuette-Maltais)]

Is there unanimous consent to move the motion?