Madam Speaker, the Reform's amendment is not so much intended to create a nightmare situation, as has just been suggested, but rather to maintain an existing nightmare. If we look at it carefully, the first part appears worthwhile; they want the minister to be able to enter into an agreement with an agency of a province after obtaining the approval of the lieutenant governor in council of the province. One's reaction is: "Fine. That will respect provincial jurisdictions, and the jurisdiction of Quebec".
But then comes another part, "may enter into agreements with a province or group of provinces, financial institutions and such other persons or bodies, other than an agency of the province, as the Minister considers appropriate". This, then, is an agreement aimed at concretizing the current muddle that exists where manpower training is concerned. All is does is offer a snapshot of what the federal government is already doing. It is a somewhat useless amendment.
Now, for some concrete examples. This would mean that an organization such as the Société québécoise de développement de la main-d'oeuvre, a public provincial body, could not enter into an agreement with the federal government without the authorization of its province. This can perhaps be defended, but it also means that a financial institution, such as the Bank of Montreal or the Mouvement Desjardins, or any other, could also sign this type of agreement without necessarily having Quebec's agreement.
This would recreate exactly the situation that currently exists. All kinds of organizations get involved in training, with more or less recognition, with criteria, paying more or less attention to the objectives of the education department. This creates the chaos that we have now with two levels of government being involved. The government responsible for manpower training and education does not have control over how training is provided.
Some people arrive on the labour market with a senior matriculation in office technology, for instance, while others have taken a course of one name or another that is not officially recognized by the department of education. When these people arrive on the labour market with their credentials, they are often in for a shock. They were told they were getting an education that would give them access to the labour market, but all of a sudden they discover that something is missing. Since they do not have the training required by the department of education, they cannot get equivalent certificates or diplomas, which creates all kinds of problems.
This is exactly what the Reform Party is proposing with the amendment before us, especially where it says: "financial institutions and such other persons or bodies-".
Nothing would prevent the federal government from signing a contract with an individual, whether or not the training to be provided is in line with the priorities of a Quebec region regarding manpower development. Such is the situation now. Quebec set up manpower committees to plan manpower requirements in each region, with a view to maximize job creation.
By contrast, under the current situation, which would be formalized under the Reform Party's amendment, the federal government can award training contracts to people in a given region, even though this initiative may not be in line with the priorities set by the region's stakeholders.
This will result in the useless spending that currently exists in that sector. A federalist minister from Quebec, as well as the Quebec Liberal government that preceded the Parti Quebecois in office, both recognized that $250 million are wasted in this fashion. This money is lost because two different networks are set up to train people for the same labour market. The result is that, in the end, we train people who have no jobs.
Everybody acted in good faith, including the people who purchased the federal program and those who received the training. The latter attend classes for a year full time and when they try to find a job they are told: "It is unfortunate, but we have decided to give priority to other applicants who completed three years of vocational training." The opposite is also true, but many times we have provided training for people who, in the end, have no job opportunities.
This is today's harsh reality. There are so many jobs available and people out of work, but we do not seem to be able to match them. According to a study made by the OECD, an international organization which enjoys a certain credibility when it comes to employment, Canada does not have a good manpower training system. This is one of the main reasons why we have a lot of trouble competing against other countries.
In our day-to-day lives, we also have to face this situation. If you go to an employment centre and say that you are unemployed and wish to get some training, you are invited to join a group of people with the same goals. You register, attend classes for a year and, in the end, find yourself in a dead-end because the training you got did not give you the qualifications you need to re-enter the labour force.
This also leads to undue competition between workers. This is why it is important to find another way to deal with this situation. The type of amendment put forward by the Reform Party will not solve the problem. The problem could have been solved if the current federal government had accepted the referendum results and come to understand what even the Director General of the Conseil du patronat du Québec told them, which is that the federal government should withdraw from manpower training and realize that Quebec's federalists and sovereignists all agree that the provincial government should be the only one responsible for any proactive employment measure and the only one empowered to act in this field.
So, we will need more than this kind of amendment to solve the problem, especially since this amendment only reflects what we have already. This is why we will vote against this type of amendment which is only a smoke screen. We would ask the government, instead, to reconsider its position and finally recognize the consensus in Quebec in terms of manpower training, to realize that the only efficient solution is to have the government closest to the people provide the appropriate training so that, in the future, we will no longer make a difference between welfare recipients and the unemployed, between those who get a government cheque and those who do not, but we will have instead an overall proactive employment policy.
The first thing to do is to ensure that we do not have two levels of government involved in the same jurisdiction. This is why we will vote against the Reform amendment.