House of Commons Hansard #58 of the 35th Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament's site.) The word of the day was property.

Topics

Criminal CodeGovernment Orders

1:20 p.m.

Bloc

Christiane Gagnon Bloc Québec, QC

Mr. Speaker, Bill C-27 addresses a number of issues, including female genital mutilation, criminal harassment, child sex tourism, testimony by children and procuring.

I will deal first with child sex tourism, and then female genital mutilation. Both are problems I feel a particular concern about, having initiated the related bills. I will conclude by discussing the three other aspects of the bill.

First of all, I will look at child sex tourism. I will begin by telling you a story reported in the November 1993 Reader's Digest .

In 1992, near the border of Thailand, a young girl of 14 was walking toward the rice fields where her parents were working. Suddenly, a truck stopped in front of her and the driver forced her to get in. She was illegally confined in a brothel in Bangkok and raped ten times a day. When she cried out, she was beaten. She was robbed of her youth.

In another country, Sri Lanka, men from London, Stuttgart, and San Francisco tan on the beach. Not far away, young Ceylonese boys lie on the sand. A middle-aged German accosts a ten-year old. He asks his name and, without any further ado, orders him to accompany him to his hotel. This is how they contribute to the country's economy, it is said.

These are just two of hundreds of cases reported by journalists and others who have looked into child sex tourism. These two

examples are a good illustration of the terrible reality behind the sexual exploitation of children.

As I have just said, this is a terrible reality, because we have here one of mankind's most reprehensible behaviours, the exploitation and victimization of children for sexual reward.

What makes child sex tourism particularly terrible is that the children that are its victims are already disadvantaged. They are poor and come from developing countries where people's basic needs are not always met, far from it.

In the name of the almighty dollar, these children are kidnapped, held in brothels, beaten, humiliated and continually exposed to the worst diseases, from which they will eventually die in their early twenties, just when our children are entering adulthood and setting out on a life full of promise. That is the "local" aspect of the operation.

Then there is the customer, who comes from a rich country and is personally well off. This person can afford trips to exotic countries for the purpose, sometimes the sole purpose, of purchasing the sexual services of children.

Let us not fool ourselves, this customer knows full well that he is committing a criminal act. He knows full well that involvement in the same activity in his own country would put him at risk of landing in jail for several years. This very morning, our newspapers were reporting that an Ontario man had been sentenced to three years in prison for having been found guilty of sexual relations with children between the ages of 9 and 14.

Just because this is taking place elsewhere is not a reason not be concerned by it. As I was saying, the customer knows full well that this is one of the behaviours his society tolerates least. Why then should he feel so free to go abroad to take advantage of children in other countries?

Some of these homosexual pedophiles claim to feel great love for their victims, and claim that the children feel the same way about them. They also claim that our laws are prohibitive and ought to acknowledge the possibility of supposedly affectionate relations between adults and children.

I would remind you that these children are often no more than 10 years old, sometimes even younger. This is an absolutely fallacious argument. How can anyone believe that a child forced to prostitute himself with strangers, sometimes horrifying numbers of them in one day, can feel any sort of affection whatsoever for his aggressors? The answer to this question is so obvious as to not even merit a reply.

Another argument these tourists raise is the matter of cultural differences. They claim that in the countries where they go to purchase the services of children there is a different mentality, that these youngsters are love children, that sexual morality is different there, that sexual relations between children and adults are perceived differently, are part of the mores of the country. What nonsense.

We need only listen to the testimony of these poor children to know that this argument is, at the very least, misleading propaganda and, at most, a totally abusive justification of attacks on defenceless victims who are totally at the mercy of their tormenters.

What is more, how could these same people explain that these same foreign countries themselves have legislation against juvenile prostitution? Are not the laws of a country supposed to reflect the morality of its people?

While it appears true that, in certain countries, the laws on child prostitution are not being applied as fully as they ought, we must not rule out poverty based corruption as an explanation. It is in no way a matter of different sexual morals.

Our society does not tolerate the purchase of sexual services from children, whether at home or abroad. Our society does not tolerate the kidnapping of children, who are mistreated in order to provide thrills for certain adults. This practice flies in the face of all the rights accorded children globally, nationally or internationally. A child's right to safety, health and life is sacred. All our laws are aimed at protecting them. Our criminal code, our charters, our laws on child protection all have only one aim, which is to ensure that all children live in safety, free from exploitation and mistreatment. Regardless of sexual tourists' fine words, their degrading behaviour violates the fundamental rights of their victims. These tourists are intolerable; they are criminals.

This brings us to Bill C-27, which contains a provision making it easier to arrest and prosecute the clientele of children involved in prostitution in Canada and abroad.

This breaks new legal ground, because of the extraterritorial scope accorded the Criminal Code. With this new legislation, the authorities will now be able to prosecute Canadian nationals buying the sexual services of children abroad.

I am delighted by this government initiative. I am particularly happy because this is an area that concerns me a lot and that was the focus of a private member's bill I introduced in this House over a year ago. I was contacted after introducing it by organizations and people thanking me and encouraging me to continue to help protect defenceless children.

As a member of Parliament, I can only be happy to make a contribution, however modest it may be, to this cause untiringly fought for out there by many people who care about defending children and who, in some cases, put their own lives at risk. I thank

the Hon. Minister of Justice for recognizing the importance of legislating in this area.

I, however, have a few comments to make regarding the kind of action taken by the minister in this matter. I think that two important elements are missing from this bill. I am speaking of the impact of this bill in terms of quality and of the role it is playing in the commission of a crime. Let me explain.

First of all, Bill C-27 provides only for the prosecution of Canadian citizens and landed immigrants. I think this category is too narrow and I intend to propose, during committee consideration, that the minister expand the classes of people who can be prosecuted. I think it is important that any individual, regardless of his or her legal status in Canada, be subject to prosecution if he or she commits this crime. I think the bill is too restrictive in this regard.

Second, I think this bill must specifically target not only the customers but also all the people and companies directly or indirectly involved in this kind of sex tourism. The law should explicitly prohibit travel agencies and carriers from participating in or promoting this trade.

I think the culpability of promoters and carriers must be recognized since these people benefit from and promote sex tourism just to make money. This is another amendment we should consider.

I would now like to move on to the second part of Bill C-27, which deals with female genital mutilation. As in the case of sex tourism, I am pleased to note that the Minister of Justice has seen fit to take action to amend the Criminal Code for the purpose of naming and prohibiting the practice of female genital mutilation.

Both these practices deny children's right to personal security and, in some cases, their right to life. They are therefore very important. In September 1994, I introduced at first reading a bill that would prohibit the practice of female genital mutilation and provide for the prosecution of those involved. That bill is now at the committee stage.

My bill attracted the attention of many people and organizations in both Quebec and Canada. I noticed how seriously groups dealing with health and social issues, groups involved in putting an end to violence against women got together to examine the situation and try to remedy it.

As in the case of child sex tourism, there is a consensus not only internationally, but also nationally and locally, around the fact that genital mutilation should be eradicated. Mutilation violates women's right to life and security of the person and, as such, cannot be tolerated.

I spoke at length about this subject in the House. Now the time has come to stop talking and start acting. Once a consensus has been achieved, we must look at what can be done.

I also noted, much to my relief, the climate of respect and sensitivity in which the debates on this subject take place. Every conversation I have had, every discussion meeting I have attended and every study I have read have all been stamped with profound respect for the person, whether the victim or those close to them. The consensus is that this practice must end, but the means developed to achieve this goal show great respect for those concerned.

For instance, there is much talk about educating affected communities and about the difference between respecting a cultural practice and respecting basic human rights. I think we are on the right track and I am convinced that it is not by denigrating individuals that we will succeed in getting them to give up certain practices.

Having said that, even if education and information are the basic tools of the fight against genital mutilation, the fact remains that penalties must be provided for in the legislation for those who knowingly carry on a practice violating human rights. In that sense, the minister's initiative addresses my concerns and those of every person concerned about mutilation.

I commend this initiative, even though, as I said, it has its flaws. Before looking at these flaws, I must insist on the importance of having a common goal. I know that we all have the same goal, which will ensure that the best possible legislation will be passed.

As for the flaws of this legislation, I want to say a word on the approach used by the minister to prohibit female genital mutilation. Contrary to my bill, which established a new offence, Bill C-27 merely points out that female genital mutilation is a form of aggravated assault.

In other words, the bill only makes the definition more clear. This way of doing things will not enable us to reach our objective. Through readings and conversations, I have learned that members of the communities still practising genital mutilation are not at all aware of the fact that they are actually taking part in a form of aggravated assault. In fact, most of these people would take exception to such a view.

Therefore, since these people feel the operation is merely a cultural practice, in fact a necessary one, it should be dissociated from the usual notion of aggravated assault. The Criminal Code must include a provision dealing exclusively with female genital mutilation, to make people aware of the fact that this specific practice is illegal.

There is another flaw in Bill C-27 regarding the persons associated with this practice. Indeed, the prohibition only applies

to those actually performing the surgical procedure. This is an essential first step. However, as I said on numerous occasions, it is also important, if we are to reach our goal of eradicating this practice, that all those involved be sued, whether it is a family member giving the authorization, a person looking after the travel arrangements of the victim to the country of origin, or of the midwife to Canada, or a person who, for example, puts parents in contact with someone prepared to perform the operation.

Why charge everyone involved? Because this is a cultural practice, it is of primary importance for concerned members of the community to feel answerable to the law. In order to eradicate a practice, all those involved must be made to feel responsible. They must be made to know that, like any other act that is deemed to be criminal, any form of participation in the commission of that act is punishable. Thus, if each individual involved is aware that his role contributes to the commission of a criminal act, the chance of the operation being done successfully are reduced accordingly.

If one link in the chain is missing, the chain is likely to be broken, and that is what we want. We want to see the chain broken so that the physical integrity of women and young girls is respected.

Since, by definition, genital mutilation require a very young victim, obviously a person in authority must give authorization. It is said that some six million women yearly undergo excision. Obviously, the person who does this must be recruited by someone. It also seems that, in many cases, the child is taken out of the country to undergo the operation.

She does not get there alone. If one of the people involved did not fulfil his or her role, the operation would not take place. It is important, therefore, to include in a legal text that these persons are committing a criminal act by playing their role in it. It is important that they know that they will be punished. The practice will be ended if all of the bases are covered.

As well, since we know that the operation on Canadian nationals is often carried out outside the country, I am suggesting that the minister do as he has done in the case of child sex tourism and include extraterritoriality in the section pertaining to female genital mutilation. This would allow Canadian prosecution of persons taking a child abroad or organizing such a trip for the purpose of this operation. This extraterritoriality would make it possible to stop people from continuing to work around the law and would protect the children more effectively, which is, I say again, the purpose of the bill.

Third, I would like to again question the exception for supposedly "necessary" surgical procedures. Discussions I have had with a representative of Canada's obstetricians and gynaecologists and the positions taken by physicians' associations have convinced me that there is absolutely no need for such an exception and that, in fact, its effect might be the opposite of that intended by the law.

In fact, I wonder whether such an exception might not lead to operations on the grounds they are necessary for a woman's health. From the information I received, physicians do not need legislation to know when a medical intervention is necessary. As they do not consider female genital mutilation a medical intervention, there is no need for its mention in the text of a law. I consider therefore that this exception should be eliminated.

Finally, I would like to debate the possibility provided in Bill C-27 of an adult's consenting to a form of genital mutilation. I reject this possibility as strongly as I possibly can, because it runs completely counter to the intended objective, which is eradicating female genital mutilation.

In the name of what principle exactly can the text of a law provide that an individual may consent to being mutilated? How do we expect to put an end to a centuries old cultural practice widely followed in certain cultures by permitting its being done to adults? How can we lose sight of the fact that family and social pressure may force women to agree to the operation when they reach age 18, the age of majority?

I cannot accept our protecting women before they reach the age of majority and subsequently leaving them unprotected. Female genital mutilation, like the sexual exploitation of children, must be stopped. I will be happy to co-operate with the Minister of Justice to come up with the best possible legislation on these two aspects of the government bill.

As the House knows, Bill C-27 addresses other key issues in protecting women and children. I would like to take a quick look at them, although I expect some of my colleagues to do a more in-depth analysis. Criminal harassment is a relatively recent offence in the history of our criminal law. In fact, it was only in 1991 that the government finally bowed to the arguments made by women, who had for a long time demanded protection against criminal harassment.

Criminal harassment is an insidious form of violence against women. It shows the possessive jealously some men feel toward their wives. This feeling causes them to take some very specific actions against their victims such as spying on everything they do, making threats and trying to intimidate them.

A criminal harassment victim is not free and never feels safe. Her whole life and that of other people around her is affected to a significant degree by the harasser's behaviour and the fears it arouses.

Apparently, women have not won this battle yet, given the judicial system's anemic response to the 1991 legislative initiative. That is why we now find in Bill C-27 a new provision that would give some teeth to those already in place. We agree.

The effort to eliminate violence against women must be taken seriously by all stakeholders, be they police officers, Crown prosecutors or judges. How many women killed by their former husbands were harassed by them long before and right until they died? How many women fruitlessly appealed for help until it was too late?

The Bloc Quebecois strongly supports any measure to protect the lives of women and save them from the most pernicious kind of violence, the kind perpetrated by a spouse or former spouse.

Bill C-27 also addresses another crime: child prostitution. More adults exploiting children for sexual purposes or for the purpose of gain. In fact, what pimps are doing with their victims is a form of modern-day slavery which is, still today, condemned by the International Labour Office. Data issued by the office show that tens of millions of children have been enslaved, and a great many of them in the sex industry. That is what the papers were reporting this morning.

As we know, often pimps do not only exploit their victims, they also abuse them. It is a hellish situation young prostitutes. both boys and girls, have the greatest difficulty getting out of. Those who succeed need years to piece their lives back together.

Léon Bernier and Jean Trépanier, two Quebec researchers who looked into the issue of juvenile prostitution, have compiled a list of problems related to prostitution. This list includes sexually transmitted diseases, emotional disturbances and socio-affective disorders, violence, delinquency and drug use.

The Bloc Quebecois agrees with imposing stiffer sentences on pimps who use violence and live off the proceeds of the exploitation of youngsters.

As far as the provision on agents provocateurs is concerned, however, we think perhaps further consideration is required, in the context where it may not necessarily be the role of the state to trip up individual citizens. We therefore urge the minister to think this over.

Finally, I would like to assure the justice minister of the Bloc Quebecois' support for those provisions that will help young prostitutes come out and testify against their pimps. By allowing special measures to extend to the testimony of young victims of violence or procuring as well as of witnesses under the age of 18 in such matters, the government is seeking to reduce procuring through the conviction of those who commit a crime which, in my sense, is the most blameworthy of all crimes: child abuse.

Any society that respects itself and wishes to survive protects its children. We will support any measure geared to achieving this objective while not violating basic human rights.

Criminal CodeGovernment Orders

1:50 p.m.

Reform

Paul Forseth Reform New Westminster—Burnaby, BC

Mr. Speaker, I am pleased to speak on Bill C-27. This is one of the few times the Minister of Justice has put together legislation that goes somewhat in the right direction.

Looking back over the last few years, much from the Department of Justice was based on the bleeding heart mentality of the Liberals. One might say they had no sense of direction and no sense of putting public safety as the number one priority, certainly not a reflection of mainstream Canadian values.

With Bill C-37, which amends the Young Offenders Act, the minister was too lenient, providing more rights it seems to the offender than to victim. The minister had an opportunity to lower the age limit in the Young Offenders Act, something the majority of Canadians were pressing for, but he left the age alone simply to perhaps please the bleeding hearts. Now we have more committee study.

With Bill C-68, an act respecting firearms and other weapons, the minister could not demonstrate that a ban on guns would put a stop to crime. Time will tell how this bill did nothing to curb violent crime involving weapons. Certainly this will be the minister's legacy, much about disruptive cost, very little to do with public safety.

Bills C-41 and C-33, the two bills which included the term sexual orientation into both the Criminal Code and the Canadian Human Rights Act, prove the minister is all for giving special status to certain groups instead of providing equal protection for all.

I am talking about the track record in the context of this bill. The track record of this minister is enough to single handedly perhaps undermine Canada's justice system. Where are we going? When I am back in my riding one of the comments I often hear is "do not let the justice minister get away with the softening of crime".

People are generally afraid in their communities. They are afraid that criminals seem to have more rights than the average Canadian citizen. They are afraid knowing that sections of the Criminal Code like 745 are giving mass murderers like Clifford Olson at least a glimmer of hope of being released before their sentence is up.

Specifically on this bill today, the government could have repealed section 745 but it did not. One of the markers of this minor criminal justice bill is significantly what is not in it and what could have been in it rather than what is.

Many Canadians have written to the minister and have submitted countless petitions asking for the repeal of section 745, yet nothing has been done because the minority of bleeding hearts in this country are maybe supporting the Liberals. They know they are tied to special interest. Therefore because of political manoeuvring and expediency, the safety of Canadians is continuing to be put in jeopardy.

I think we should expect more from our justice minister, after all he is the justice minister for our whole country. We look to him for guidance in being able to put a climate of laws in place to protect the community. We should expect him to represent the grassroots of ordinary communities and not special interests.

The minister says he does respect the grassroots, except his legislation he almost always proves the opposite to be true. In view of what is not in this bill, who then does have the ear of the justice minister? It certainly does not appear to be the ordinary Canadian.

Yes, I did say almost always. In my riding of New Westminster-Burnaby, for example, prostitution is a serious problem, as is the case in most of the larger Canadian cities. Prostitutes gather for a time in one given area until a group of concerned citizens pushes them away. Except they do not really go away, they simply move to the other side of the tracks or another part of town.

While Bill C-27 goes in the right direction in this matter and respects some of the wishes of the grassroots, it again, in the typical pattern I have pointed out, does not go far enough. Like most Liberal bills, stricter penalties are frowned on. Sadly this is what communities really want.

In concert with helping programs, we need a climate of legal control so they can operate successfully. It is all a matter of balance and the courage to act. This bill deals with prostitution as a problem but it does not go far enough.

In September 1994, I recall when New Westminster activist Neil Douglas put together a group of neighbours who were frustrated with finding used condoms and needles lying around in his community, not to mention the indecent acts that were happening right in the middle of the street. This group set up a campaign to stop the Johns from picking up prostitutes in their local area. They would set up all night vigilance in areas frequented by prostitutes in an effort to shame the Johns, and the campaign did work. It was citizen action, not certainly will the help of our legal climate, except for one problem. When the New Westminster group drive the prostitutes out of their area, the prostitutes migrate over to my neighbouring city Burnaby. Then a Burnaby watch group does a similar action, takes over and drives the prostitutes back to New Westminster. This is going on back and forth.

Citizens are understandably frustrated. Unfortunately the lack of resources from local police and the lack of the appropriate legal climate makes residents take matters into their own hands. This is when the whole issue becomes much more serious. This is why the Criminal Code needs to be changed to reflect the needs of society.

In March of this year I introduced a private member's bill, Bill C-248, which would make changes to section 213 of the Criminal Code. The way it currently stands every person who in a public place or any place open to public view stops or attempts to stop a motor vehicle, impedes the free flow of pedestrian or vehicular traffic or stops any person for the purposes to communicate to engage in prostitution is guilty of an offence punishable on summary conviction.

Since my community is plagued with this problem, I went to it to ask for possible solutions. One that came up time after time was to stiffen the penalty. I proposed that in my private member's bill. It would make the penalty for communicating an indictable offence liable to imprisonment for a term not exceeding 10 years or guilty of an offence punishable on summary conviction.

This would allow the judge greater freedom from the current penalty of simply applying a summary conviction offence. It makes the offences electable and permits greater latitude for police discretion to arrest and to identify.

In March 1995 a consultation paper was prepared by the working group on prostitution, a group established in 1992 by the federal, provincial and territorial deputy ministers responsible for justice. The report suggested exactly what I proposed in Bill C-248 and suggested making section 213 of the Criminal Code a dual procedure or hybrid offence.

I want to read what the committee said for the reasons for such a suggestion:

This option would give the crown the choice of proceeding by way of summary conviction or on indictment if prostitutes or their customers were arrested under section 213. It would provide a higher maximum penalty if the crown chose to proceed by indictment and would also allow fingerprints and photographs to be taken upon arrest. Being able to take fingerprints upon arrest would help the police and the courts enforce the legislation by minimizing the use of false identity especially by repeat offenders.

Prostitutes, particularly youths and runaways who could be identified, could be assisted in leaving the sex trade. This option might help programs for deterring street prostitution when those programs depend on knowing the identities of people in the sex trade.

On November 27, 1989 Superintendent Jim Clark of the morality bureau of Metropolitan Toronto Police testified at a House of Commons justice standing committee: "Being able to fingerprint and photograph suspects would help police locate out of town runaways age 13 to 15 who are engaged in prostitution and to clear the large backlog of outstanding arrest warrants against prostitutes who have been able to use false identities with impunity".

There are only two ways police would be able to fingerprint a prostitute charged with solicitation.

Criminal CodeGovernment Orders

1:55 p.m.

The Speaker

You will have the floor when we return to debate after question period. It being 2 p.m., we will now proceed to Statements by Members.

Portugal WeekStatements By Members

1:55 p.m.

Liberal

Tony Ianno Liberal Trinity—Spadina, ON

Mr. Speaker, this week across the country Canadians of Portuguese origin have hosted Portugal Week, a festival of celebration and cheer.

The highlight of this week is today, June 10, the Portuguese National Day, a celebration of many accomplishments of the Portuguese-Canadian community. This day has historic significance as well, for it is the anniversary of the death of the great Portuguese poet Luis Vaz de Camoes.

In my riding of Trinity-Spadina this week's festivities are organized by the Alliance of Portuguese Clubs and Associations of Ontario. Among the events scheduled are a soccer tournament, an art exhibit, a parade, as well as numerous concerts featuring internationally recognized Portuguese entertainers.

I salute Canadians of Portuguese origin in my riding for their contribution to the cultural life of Toronto and Canada during this day of celebration.

HydrogenStatements By Members

1:55 p.m.

Bloc

Yves Rocheleau Bloc Trois-Rivières, QC

Mr. Speaker, the Université du Québec à Trois-Rivières recently inaugurated a new building for the Institut de recherche sur l'hydrogène.

This $6 million investment seeks to promote research in the areas of safety, storage and transportation of hydrogen, a fuel which, along with electricity, is the energy of the future. The institute greatly helps to make Quebec a world leader in pollution-free energy.

I also want to stress the incredible work done by the initiator of the project, who is also the director of the institute, Tapan K. Bose. Mr. Bose, an emeritus professor and researcher, was president of the Canadian hydrogen association in 1994 and president of the International Organization for Standardization in the same sector, in 1995.

The SenateStatements By Members

1:55 p.m.

Reform

Bill Gilmour Reform Comox—Alberni, BC

Mr. Speaker, more than a month has passed since members of this House sent a message to the Senate requesting that the chair of the Senate board of internal economy appear before the Standing Committee on Government Operations to account for Senate expenses. We have heard nothing from the Senate.

How can an unelected, unaccountable public institution not justify its expenses to the public? It is simply unacceptable. If $40 million cannot be justified, members should reduce spending to more reasonable levels. A $10 million reduction to bring spending down to $30 million may be more appropriate.

Canadians simply cannot continue to write a blank cheque for the Senate. It is time for the Senate to respect modern democratic principles of accountability and justify its spending to taxpayers.

Senator Kenny told reporters he is willing to come before committee. Well Mr. Kenny, your time has come. Come on down.

The Late Grand Chief Harry AllenStatements By Members

1:55 p.m.

NDP

Audrey McLaughlin NDP Yukon, YT

Mr. Speaker, it is with great sadness that I rise today to recognize the passing of Harry Allen, Grand Chief of the Council of Yukon First Nations.

Mr. Allen made a tremendous contribution to his community and to aboriginal people throughout Canada. He served as chair of the Council for Yukon Indians from 1975 to 1985. He was also the former northern regional vice-chief of the Assembly of First Nations where with great integrity he served aboriginal peoples across this country. In August 1995 he was elected Grand Chief of the Council of Yukon First Nations.

He was a member of the Champagne Aishiak Band. His traditional home was Klukshu. He was a great leader to all of us in the Yukon and across this country.

I am sure all Yukoners and members of this House will join me in paying tribute to a true leader and a great spirit, the late Grand Chief Harry Allen.

National Unity Essay ContestStatements By Members

1:55 p.m.

Liberal

John Richardson Liberal Perth—Wellington—Waterloo, ON

Mr. Speaker, recently I held a national unity essay writing contest among the students in my riding. The response to the contest was overwhelming in the number of entrants, the quality of the writing and the passion which characterized the essays.

After a review by a panel of three volunteer judges, grade 13 student Angela Hood from Listowel District Secondary School was chosen as the winner. She is in our gallery today. Through her essay she clearly demonstrated an appreciation and understanding of the spirit of solidarity which is necessary to ensure our country remains strong and united.

We have many reasons to be proud Canadians. Canada is a universal model of openness, tolerance and generosity. We are a success story, a story to be told to the world. As students in my riding outlined in their essays, they look forward to the future in a country that is strong, prosperous, and most important, united.

National Public Service WeekStatements By Members

1:55 p.m.

Liberal

Ovid Jackson Liberal Bruce—Grey, ON

Mr. Speaker, I am pleased to have the opportunity to announce the beginning of National Public Service Week. Every year at this time we acknowledge the work of dedicated women and men in the federal public service and make Canadians aware of the wide variety of high quality services they receive from the federal government.

Canada is reputed to have one of the finest public service organizations in the world. Our country can count on the non-partisan professional public service to help the government run efficiently and to support Canada's growing economy.

I believe National Public Service Week is an excellent time for members of Parliament to visit government offices here in the national capital region and at home to personally thank the men and women of the federal public service for a job well done.

ScarboroughStatements By Members

2:05 p.m.

Liberal

John Cannis Liberal Scarborough Centre, ON

Mr. Speaker, on behalf of my constituents of Scarborough Centre, I wish to extend congratulations to the city of Scarborough on the occasion of its 200th birthday.

As residents of Scarborough, we are very proud of our heritage and our city. Scarborough's roots date back to the late 1700s. In 1793 Elizabeth Simcoe, wife of the first Lieutenant Governor of Upper Canada, named Scarborough after the town of the same name in England. Six years later in 1799, David and Mary Thomson became the first European settlers in Scarborough. Today in 1996, we are a diverse and dynamic community of more than half a million people.

Bicentennial celebrations have been under way in Scarborough since January and will continue through to December. In fact, June 10 to June 16 has officially been declared Scarborough Week.

The city of Scarborough has made an invaluable contribution to the social, economic, political and cultural development of our country. Today Scarborough is the sum of its citizens and the fruits of a rich history spanning 200 years.

Employment CentresStatements By Members

2:05 p.m.

Bloc

Jean H. Leroux Bloc Shefford, QC

Mr. Speaker, in an article published in the May 28 issue of the newspaper La Voix de l'est , the member for Brome-Missisquoi said, in reference to the unemployment insurance reform, that the number of employees who will remain at the Cowansville employment centre was determined by taking into account the size of the area served, as opposed to the size of the population, which is the usual criterion.

Why is it that, with a population twice that of the Cowansville region, the employment centre in Granby will have proportionally only half the number of employees to serve its taxpayers?

I would like the Minister of Human Resources Development to explain to the people in the riding of Shefford how he determined the number of employees remaining at the Cowansville employment centre, compared to that of Granby.

I would like the minister to explain to the people in the riding of Shefford why he violated the principles of fairness toward taxpayers by sacrificing the Granby employment centre for the one in Cowansville. Is it because the member for Brome-Missisquoi happens to be a Liberal like him?

Reform Party Of CanadaStatements By Members

June 10th, 1996 / 2:05 p.m.

Reform

John Williams Reform St. Albert, AB

Mr. Speaker, over the course of the past few days the Reform Party has examined its policies, developed new policies and come out strong and united. No other party has tackled the questions faced by this nation in such an open and honest forum. No other party has the courage to challenge antiquated notions, has the vision to develop clear goals and the innovation to present bold initiatives and leadership for the future.

Now, bolstered by the confidence of our members and confident that our vision will lead us to success in the next election, the

Reform Party is revitalized and ready to pursue its goals for the good of Canada and all Canadians.

I would like to thank the organizers, the volunteers and the delegates who gave of their time and effort for the assembly in Vancouver. The Reform Party is proud of its grassroots and recognizes its responsibility to be a voice for our membership and like-minded Canadians. Without them, the resounding success of the assembly and the Reform Party would not be possible.

Gasoline PricesStatements By Members

2:05 p.m.

Liberal

Jag Bhaduria Liberal Markham—Whitchurch-Stouffville, ON

Mr. Speaker, two issues of paramount concern among Canadians are the ever increasing cost of gasoline and the high interest rates on credit cards. On numerous occasions I have stood in this House urging the government to intervene on behalf of the millions of Canadians who are being ripped off by the banking institutions and oil companies.

While I reject the explanation given by oil companies to justify their blatant price gouging of Canadians, I cannot understand why this government will not put its foot down. While Ontarians are angry for having to pay 60 cents a litre, Quebecers should be livid for having to pay 67 cents a litre.

What Canadians want is not another inquiry but a permanent commission established with the mandate to investigate price gouging and the power to roll back prices. If this government is really interested in giving Canadians a break at the gas pumps, then I suggest a business partnership with the government of Iraq. Its oil could be exchanged for our food for the thousands of innocent children-

Gasoline PricesStatements By Members

2:05 p.m.

The Speaker

The hon. member for Nepean.

National Public Service WeekStatements By Members

2:05 p.m.

Liberal

Beryl Gaffney Liberal Nepean, ON

Mr. Speaker, this week we honour Canada's federal public servants during National Public Service Week. It is important that Canadians know of their valuable service to the public and the annual recognition that is given to those employees for exemplary performance or for meritorious suggestions. This award is the highest expression of official tribute.

I am particularly proud to mention two Nepean public servants who have made an outstanding contribution: Christopher J. Cuddy from the Department of Indian and Northern Affairs; and Carri-Ann Candusso from the Department of Transport. Both are part of a team which has been selected for an award of excellence to be presented by the President of the Treasury Board this afternoon. My congratulations to them and to all winners.

May we continue to acknowledge and be proud of the men and women who make up Canada's public service as it continues to develop and build on its tradition of excellence.

Reform Party Of CanadaStatements By Members

2:10 p.m.

Liberal

Don Boudria Liberal Glengarry—Prescott—Russell, ON

Mr. Speaker, I was pleased to learn over the weekend about the third party's new-found belief in equality for Canadians. For Reformers, these are fine words but they require action. So let us look at some of the actions of Reformers.

Within minutes of approving a resolution in favour of equality, Reformers applauded a member of Parliament who said his views about sending minority workers to the back of the shop were consistent with the resolution. What kind of equality is that?

At the same assembly, members spoke in favour of abolishing the charter of rights or amending it. Now, that is equality. The only reason the third party chose amending rather than abolishing it is of course political expediency. Most voters in Canada support the charter of rights and freedoms as a way of protecting rights for all Canadians.

Reformers speak of national unity and are critical of separatists, but they in turn want to emasculate the federal government.

I think it is time for the Reform Party to go back to school.

Reform Party Of CanadaStatements By Members

2:10 p.m.

Liberal

Shaughnessy Cohen Liberal Windsor—St. Clair, ON

Mr. Speaker, Reform tried to put on a new face this weekend but it is more like new make-up over an old face. Canadians will not be fooled. Reformers' vision of a new Canada for the 21st century in reality is a return to a Canada of the 19th century. It is an old vision dressed up in code language.

Reformers talk about maintaining our health care system, but they plan a two tier system. They focus on personalizing social programs, but that is just code language for dismantling them and returning to a survival of the fittest society. For them equality is a question of using the right language and avoiding attack by the media. Reform equality is equality of the jungle.

Eliminating the GST means incorporating it into a new FST. Reformers are proposing tax cuts. It sounds attractive and that is why they are doing it. They have not told Canadians how they plan to eliminate the deficit, cut taxes, create jobs and install a flat tax

system all in three years. And all the while they claim the high road of honesty and integrity.

Reform has indicated its plan to woo voters with new make-up.

Reform Party Of CanadaStatements By Members

2:10 p.m.

The Speaker

The hon. member for Québec-Est.

Canadian UnityStatements By Members

2:10 p.m.

Bloc

Jean-Paul Marchand Bloc Québec-Est, QC

Mr. Speaker, CJMF-Quebec's listening audience awarded the Bolo prize to the heritage minister for her generous distribution of Canadian flags to the people of Quebec.

In fact, last week, the minister, who was having trouble unloading the Maple Leaf in Quebec, agreed to send 20,000 flags to a single individual for distribution in day care centres, and 6,000 to decorate the shores of the St. Lawrence, from Trois-Rivières to Gaspé.

With Canada in the midst of a major crisis, the federal government prefers to bury its problems under tons of Maple Leaves, thus squandering over $7 billion of taxpayers' money on propaganda.

And at the same time, the federal government is cutting $7 million in funding to the tokamak project in Varennes, thus jeopardizing hundreds of jobs and important economic spinoffs for Quebec.

What Quebec wants, and what Quebecers need, are not flags and kites, but jobs and development.

Reform Party Of CanadaStatements By Members

2:10 p.m.

Reform

Dick Harris Reform Prince George—Bulkley Valley, BC

Mr. Speaker, when Reformers from all across Canada gathered in Vancouver this past week, we reaffirmed our commitment to the issues that are truly important to the Canadian people.

We addressed the need for personal security, a revitalized economy and the importance of national unity. We reiterated the importance of the family, of increased employment and job opportunities, of reasonable access to core health and social issues and the ability to plan for retirement.

We addressed the need for Canadians that we have a justice system that makes them feel safe. We reached out to our neighbours in Quebec and reaffirmed the need for a strong and united country.

We did more than just talk the talk. We reinforced this thinking by adopting policies that reflect what Canadians are really believing. These resolutions will be enacted by a Reform government, the next Government of Canada.

Federal-Provincial RelationsStatements By Members

2:15 p.m.

Liberal

Nick Discepola Liberal Vaudreuil, QC

Mr. Speaker, last Friday the premiers of Quebec and of Canada met in Quebec City for a working session.

This meeting, which had unfortunately been cancelled a few weeks earlier by the premier of Quebec, resulted in progress on a number of issues of importance to both governments.

Originally intended to be brief, the meeting, which lasted two hours, showed once again that it is possible to establish a climate of healthy co-operation between the Government of Quebec and the Government of Canada.

When the meeting ended, there were only winners, and these winners were the people of Quebec and of Canada, who will finally be able to enjoy the positive benefits resulting from the joint projects discussed at the meeting.

National UnityStatements By Members

2:15 p.m.

Liberal

Geoff Regan Liberal Halifax West, NS

Mr. Speaker, yesterday, several thousands of people gathered on Parliament Hill in order to demonstrate their attachment to Canada.

Our government was not involved in the organization of this demonstration. We recognize and pay tribute to any demonstration giving Canadians from throughout the country an opportunity to express their love for their country.

This morning, certain newspapers carried a photo showing a disgraceful scene from yesterday's rally. We wish to make known our disapproval.

The issue of national unity will not be solved by insults and mockery, as was fortunately understood by the very great majority of participants at yesterday's rally.

ReferendaOral Question Period

2:15 p.m.

Roberval Québec

Bloc

Michel Gauthier BlocLeader of the Opposition

Mr. Speaker, the Minister of Justice said that, as in the Bertrand case, he planned to intervene in the Libman case, which will be heard by the Supreme Court and which aims to invalidate the sections of the Quebec Referendum Act limiting the expenditures of each camp and creating referendum committees.

Could the Minister of Justice confirm the government's intention of intervening in support of Mr. Libman and indicate the reason for its intervention?

ReferendaOral Question Period

2:15 p.m.

Etobicoke Centre Ontario

Liberal

Allan Rock LiberalMinister of Justice and Attorney General of Canada

Mr. Speaker, it is premature for us to take a position on that question. Naturally, any time the constitutionality of legislation is an issue, it is a matter of interest.

At this point, although leave has been granted to the appellant, the court has yet to formulate the constitutional questions it will be considering. When those questions have been formulated by the court, we will examine them and determine whether there is any way the Attorney General of Canada can assist the court in dealing with the constitutional issues that arise.

ReferendaOral Question Period

2:15 p.m.

Roberval Québec

Bloc

Michel Gauthier BlocLeader of the Opposition

Mr. Speaker, will the Minister of Justice confirm that his real intention, in intervening in the Libman case, because we know he would like to, is to come to the defence of those Liberal members and members of his organization who are accused by the Directeur général des élections du Québec of spending illegally in support of the great rally in Montreal for the no side during the Quebec referendum campaign?