Debates of June 17th, 1996

Pearson International Airport

[Allan Rock, Liberal, Minister of Justice and Attorney General of Canada]

Mr. Speaker, the rule of law includes the democratic right of Parliament to enact legislation. That is exactly what has been done in this case.

We have worked toward the enactment of Bill C-28 which expresses and carries forward the policy of this government on which we were elected. That is to say we took a critical look at that transaction and we came to the conclusion that it was not in the public's interest to take steps to set it aside.

If the hon. member is concerned about law, legality or matters involving the Constitution, then he should be much influenced by the fact that an expert witness testified before the Senate committee of legal and constitutional affairs in relation to Bill C-28. The very constitutional expert from Osgoode Hall law school whom the Tories had relied upon in criticizing the bill testified last week that with the amendments we have proposed, the bill is indeed now lawful and constitutional.

[Jim Gouk, Reform, Kootenay West—Revelstoke, BC]

Mr. Speaker, if rhetoric were dollars, the Liberals would not have a deficit.

For two years the government has said that it cancelled the Pearson contract because, in the words of the former Liberal Minister of Transport, it was the biggest rip-off in Canadian history. Now the justice department is trying to defend the government in one of its several lawsuits by claiming the contract was so bad for developers that they would have lost millions.

Will the minister please tell this House which of these two claims he wishes to retract: the one used to cancel the contract, or the one now being used to defend the government? It is impossible for both positions to be true.

[Allan Rock, Liberal, Minister of Justice and Attorney General of Canada]

Mr. Speaker, if the concern my friend has is not for constitutionality but for consistency, then perhaps he can begin by explaining how it is that his colleague at this end of the bench asked me 10 minutes ago how could I dare countenance the payment of money to a claimant in an action against the crown and now he seems to be suggesting that instead of passing Bill C-28 we should be paying out money to the claimants in relation to constitutionality.

[Gilles Duceppe, Bloc, Laurier—Sainte-Marie, QC]

Mr. Speaker, the Minister of Justice did not really answer the question put by my colleague, the member for Saint-Hubert, a few moments ago.

I ask him today whether he made inquiries of any sort into the Airbus affair when he was a Liberal candidate in 1993, and I am not necessarily referring only to inquiries made of the RCMP or other police forces, but also inquiries made of other people such as lobbyists or journalists?

[Allan Rock, Liberal, Minister of Justice and Attorney General of Canada]

Mr. Speaker, the question makes as little sense coming from the hon. member as it did from his colleague. I have responded to the questions put in the House when they have been on factual matters and the facts speak for themselves.

[Gilles Duceppe, Bloc, Laurier—Sainte-Marie, QC]

Mr. Speaker, I ask the minister again. If I understand correctly, I must conclude that never, and in no way during the 1993 election campaign did he make inquiries of journalists concerning the Airbus affair and the role former Prime Minister Mulroney is alleged to have played. I am therefore speaking about discussions or inquiries made of journalists before being appointed Minister of Justice.

[Allan Rock, Liberal, Minister of Justice and Attorney General of Canada]

Mr. Speaker, the hon. member can put whatever he wants in his question. I will confine myself to facts in my response.

The facts of the matter are clear. They are on the record. I was approached by a journalist who fixed me with knowledge of allegations of what constituted serious wrongdoing if they were true. I then sought the advice of my deputy minister and of the solicitor general. I think I did what every member of the House would expect the Minister of Justice to do.

It is a matter of simple principle. If you are fixed with that kind of allegation of wrongdoing and take the advice of your deputy and the solicitor general, you communicate the information to the Royal Canadian Mounted Police and let them do with it what they want. If I had not done that, I can just imagine the yowls of protest from the parties opposite. In this matter, I did the right thing.

[The Speaker]

Colleagues, the questions that are being posed should go to the administrative responsibility of the ministers or the government at the time that they were in government.

I would ask you and caution you please in your questions to deal with those matters rather than things that happened before someone came into a particular position of responsibility.

Fisheries

[John Cummins, Reform, Delta, BC]

Mr. Speaker, last Monday the Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Fisheries and Oceans told the House that the aboriginal only commercial fishery

then under way in the Alberni Inlet on Vancouver Island was based on section 35 of the Constitution.

Does the minister accept the position put forward by his parliamentary secretary that native only commercial fisheries are indeed mandated by the Constitution?

[Fred Mifflin, Liberal, Minister of Fisheries and Oceans]

Mr. Speaker, I will tell the hon. member what I have told him and other members of his party time and time again. I will say one more time that the first priority for salmon fishing is conservation or escapement. Second is the aboriginal fishery. Third is recreational and commercial fishing. This is constitutional and in accordance with government policy, It is in accordance with the aboriginal fishery strategy and every law the country has ever made. I cannot put it any more clearly.

[John Cummins, Reform, Delta, BC]

Mr. Speaker, I could not agree more with the minister.

The fact is that after section 35, the minister and his government have inserted another fishery, an aboriginal only commercial fishery. That fishery has no basis in the Constitution. In the Sparrow decision it was rejected or the idea of a commercial fishery was not addressed. In the most recent decision by the Supreme Court of Canada, the court declared that natives had a right to fish for food, ceremonial and religious purposes. There was no mention whatsoever of a commercial fishery.

Will the minister accept full responsibility and accountability for the native only commercial fishery which is operating in the Alberni Inlet?

[Fred Mifflin, Liberal, Minister of Fisheries and Oceans]

Mr. Speaker, I will tell the hon. member that the policies are set forth. They are clear and are understood by everybody.

I wonder if the hon. member would try to get on board and understand the policies so that he could back them along with the government.

U.S. Helms-Burton Bill

[Benoît Sauvageau, Bloc, Terrebonne, QC]

Mr. Speaker, earlier today, the Ministers of Foreign Affairs and International Trade announced that, this fall, the federal government will be introducing a bill to amend the Foreign Extraterritorial Measures Act, with a view to counteracting the effects of the American Helms-Burton bill with its extraterritorial effects.

Faced with this unacceptable legislation that has been objected to on many occasions by Canada and a large part of the international community, how can the Minister for International Trade turn his back on the urgency of the situation and defer until fall the planned amendments to the Canadian Foreign Extraterritorial Measures Act?

[Art Eggleton, Liberal, Minister for International Trade]

Mr. Speaker, the Helms-Burton bill in terms of the claims that can be filed is not in effect until August 1. The President of the United States can defer that. We hope he will because we hope we are sending a strong signal by our action today and other countries in support of it as well.

Even at that, even if it goes into effect on August 1, it means that claims cannot be filed in the U.S. courts until November 1. By that point in time the details of this legislation will be in front of this House.

Trade

[Charlie Penson, Reform, Peace River, AB]

Mr. Speaker, Canada fought long and hard to get the World Trade Organization established, but by caving in on the lumber issue, we have allowed the United States to get away with another bilateral bullying tactic. By doing so, we have hurt not only our lumber industry but the very organization we should be turning to to settle disputes of this nature.

Now that the minister has seen the results of his badly thought out softwood lumber agreement, will he not admit that he should have taken this dispute to the World Trade Organization for settlement once and for all?

[Art Eggleton, Liberal, Minister for International Trade]

No, Mr. Speaker. We assessed our chances of success under NAFTA and under the WTO. The companies did as well, the companies that create the jobs which are important for the survival of that industry.

The industry quite clearly said that it wanted us to bring about the security of access for the market in the United States. We were able to do that. We were able to get a five year secure access, something we have never had before, and it was with the very strong support of this country's lumber industry.

[Jean Charest, Progressive Conservative, Sherbrooke, QC]

Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Minister for International Trade. It has to do with the issue of trade and the environment. It comes in the wake of an assessment made by environment groups relative to this government's record on this matter. They described it as probably being the worst administration in the 25 years of Environment Canada.

In its negotiations with Chile, is the government insisting on the Government of Chile signing into a side agreement on the environment as a condition of entering into a trade agreement? Does it intend to respect that commitment?

[Art Eggleton, Liberal, Minister for International Trade]

Mr. Speaker, yes, the side agreements on both labour and the environment are unprecedented, except for the case of NAFTA. They were worked out in our provisions that NAFTA has put in place. We want Chile, if it is going to become a part of NAFTA, to also abide by the same agreements. Therefore, we are negotiating an improvement in terms of an environmental agreement in our negotiations with Chile.

Taxation

[Walt Lastewka, Liberal, St. Catharines, ON]

Mr. Speaker, often individuals who are evading the GST do so to evade income tax.

Can the minister of revenue explain which issues have been undertaken to reduce and capture the real underground economy?

[Jane Stewart, Liberal, Minister of National Revenue]

Mr. Speaker, it is my sense that Canadians more and more understand that participating in the underground economy is not a victimless crime. When a Canadian decides not to pay taxes, another one has to pick up the slack.

In Revenue Canada we take this very seriously. Our seven point program targeting the underground economy has returned over a billion dollars to the Canadian coffers.

More recently, in partnership with the construction industry, we have implemented a voluntary reporting system that will provide Revenue Canada with the information it needs to limit even further the underground activity in that important sector.

If I may, I would like to recognize the Canadian Construction Association, the Canadian Home Builders' Association and the Canadian Construction Union for their participation in this program and say that together we will ensure there is a level playing field for this important sector of the Canadian economy.

Presence In Gallery

[The Speaker]

I wish to draw to the attention of the members the presence in the gallery of His Royal Highness, Crown Prince El-Hassan Bin Talal of the Hashemite Kingdom of Jordan.

[Some hon. members]

Hear, hear.

[The Speaker]

Colleagues, before going to the daily routine of business, in the past few days we lost one of the longest serving Canadian parliamentarians in our history. I refer of course to the Hon. George Hees.

We will pay tribute to the Hon. George Hees at this time.

The Late Hon. George Hees

[Jean Charest, Progressive Conservative, Sherbrooke, QC]

Mr. Speaker, only a few days ago we lost one of the longest serving members of this place. Mr. Hees served with great distinction as a member of Parliament for 37 years.

Mr. Hees had a very distinguished career. He also had a full life, full of brightness and joy. He was kind enough to share his unlimited talents with Canadians.

Mr. Hees studied and graduated from the University of Toronto. He also studied at Cambridge in England. He was an athlete who played for the Toronto Argonauts and had the privilege of being on a Grey Cup winning team.

He served in the Canadian Armed Forces in the second world war as a brigade major in the Fifth Infantry Brigade. He was wounded and returned home in 1945. One of his good friends at the service in his honour mentioned a typical Hees story regarding his return to Canada. He came home, the dashing war hero with his arm in a sling, and enjoyed the attention he received everywhere he went, at receptions and elsewhere. The friend told the story of one evening Mr. Hees returned home after one those receptions with the wrong arm in the sling.

Mr. Hees then went on to take an interest in public life. He ran unsuccessfully for the House of Commons in 1945, but was elected in 1950. He subsequently became president of the Progressive Conservative Party of Canada in the years that preceded the election of the Diefenbaker minority government in 1957, and the majority government in 1958.

In the Diefenbaker government he was appointed minister of transport and served with great distinction in that portfolio. He went on to the department of trade and commerce and is remembered with a great deal of fondness by those who worked with him at that time.

Mr. Hees was an unabashed cheerleader of Canada. He was a supporter of his officials and his department and could be a fantastic person for whom to work. Those people who worked with him in the department at the time remember the presence of this minister who demonstrated that, yes, a minister can make a substantial difference within a single department.

Under his leadership in trade and commerce, the department went on to promote trade with other countries and it did this with an unprecedented level of success.

Mr. Hees left politics in 1963. This was a difficult time, as some members will remember, for the government of Mr. Diefenbaker. Mr. Hees, at the time, chose to retire from active politics. He went

on to become president of the Montreal Stock Exchange. He, who had been from Toronto, was now living in Montreal. He also did very well in that responsibility.

He returned to active politics in 1965 and was re-elected. He then went on to serve until he was again named to cabinet in 1984 in the government of Brian Mulroney. This time he was appointed minister of veterans affairs. Of all the accomplishments of his life, at no point did Mr. Hees distinguish himself more than in that portfolio. To this day people who work in that department, who I know and see from time to time, and veterans, remember him very fondly.

Mr. Speaker, you may remember the VIP program that he extended to 10,000 veterans at the time. Mr. Hees, at every opportunity, used to say to people when he was minister of veterans affairs, how every Canadian was a special person. He would pause and remind us that those who had served in those extraordinary circumstances were, in his mind, exceptionally important to the country. He is still very fondly remembered for what he did for each and every one of them.

Mr. Hees served until 1988 when he decided not to run again and was named an ambassador. He is also remembered fondly for some of the work he did in that capacity.

I have a personal story to tell from the first cabinet meeting that I ever attended. I do not think I am sharing any great secret here. As we sat around the table on that very first day, the prime minister reminded us that two people there, who because of their ages could not get into the Senate. Of course I was under 30 years old and Mr. Hees was over 75. Mr. Hees' reply was: "At least in Charest's case it can be fixed".

Mr. Hees also had a great deal of enthusiasm for his country and his fellow citizens. What impressed me the most about him was how at ease he was with himself. Here was a man who had a good sense of who he was and of the experiences of his life. He was extremely generous and shared a great deal. His wife, Mabel, also shared his political life. Mibs was her nickname. She was an extraordinary person. I want to extend to his three daughters and, as well, to all those Canadians who remember Mr. Hees our sincere condolences.

Mr. Hees was an alumnus of the Royal Military College and-something I would mention in passing as being of interest to the people of Quebec-did battle with George Drew here in this House to get the Collège militaire royal de Saint-Jean created.

I recall that we found, in researching the history of the creation of that military college, a House of Commons discussion between George Hees and Léon Balcer-the former MP for Trois-Rivières, I might point out-in which Mr. Hees defended the idea of creating a royal military college in Quebec. He felt, based on his experience, that this was extremely important. This was a man with a profound sense of what Canada was, and we will miss him.

To his family, all his friends and those who have had the pleasure of working with Mr. Hees, our sincere condolences.

[David Collenette, Liberal, Minister of National Defence and Minister of Veterans Affairs]

Mr. Speaker, it is with great sadness that I learned of the death of my good friend George Hees.

He was a man with whom I had the honour to serve in Parliament for 10 years. He represented Toronto Broadview which is the first constituency in which I lived when I came to this country and was very active in local politics in the east end of Toronto.

He had a long and distinguished career. He had great affection for Parliament as an institution. He was in the best sense of the word a House of Commons man. He was first elected in 1950 and saw some very interesting times in Canadian history, as has been pointed out by the hon. member for Sherbrooke.

Throughout all of the political wars, George Hees was unflappable. He was a man of great humour, one who always had a spark in his eyes and always had a very benign quip at any situation.

In fact I remember the regular sparring that went on between George Hees and Pierre Trudeau on the floor of the House of Commons. These became rituals to which everyone paid attention and the Speakers at the time, Speaker Jerome and Speaker Sauvé, never had to gavel down members because everyone hushed to see who would get the better of the argument. While I have tremendous respect for Pierre Trudeau, my former leader, I have to admit that George got the better of Pierre Trudeau many, many times because he was quick on his feet, he had a great sense of wit and a great sense of history and was able to duel verbally with the prime minister of the time.

As has been pointed out, he spent his career in three different fields. He was a parliamentarian, he was a soldier and he was a sportsman. The young George Hees was a great athletic specimen. He played in the Grey Cup and won with the Toronto Argonauts in 1938. We could certainly use George Hees today. We could have used him the last 20 or 30 years, given the problems we have had with our football team. George was there in the days when the Grey Cup was very much a passion within Canada and certainly within Toronto and contributed much to sports excellence, not only as a professional football player but in other fields.

As a soldier he was one who was prepared to make the ultimate sacrifice. He was wounded at the battle of the Schelde and he carried those wounds with him until his death.

He was a man who I think could be best remembered for his service as a minister of veterans affairs because he had great empathy with those people. He believed that the veterans from the first and second world wars were the greatest of Canadians of our generation because these were people who fought for democracy, fought for liberty but also had to fight for economic survival in the depression. These were people who knew that what hard times were but these were people who knew after the war that we had to build a new society. He felt that they understood the true meaning in the Canadian experience, the kind of just society that we had to fight to preserve and the just society that we had to build for the newer generation, like myself and others who are younger.

As I said, he was a man of great humour. He was a man who I understand at the opening of the Ottawa airport terminal in 1962, when he was minister, was waiting to speak and the Royal Canadian Air Force did a fly past and they flew pretty close to the terminal and all the windows broke. That did not put George Hees off. He just went along with his speech in the unflappable, dedicated way that we knew of him.

His wife, Mabel, was one who garnered great affection in Parliament. She was always with him. She was always supportive. Like George she was a genuinely nice person.

If those of us who serve in the House today could only have a small percentage of the qualities of George Hees, then I think that we could say that we were good parliamentarians.

On behalf of the Prime Minister and the government I wish to extend our sincere condolences to his daughters and to the rest of his family. We have truly witnessed the passing of a great parliamentarian, a great soldier and a great man.