House of Commons Hansard #55 of the 35th Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament's site.) The word of the day was referendum.

Topics

Grants And LoansStatements By Members

2:10 p.m.

Liberal

Ronald J. Duhamel Liberal St. Boniface, MB

Mr. Speaker, I am deeply troubled by the news that the Quebec government has decided to limit access to grants and loans for Quebec students wishing to continue their education outside the province.

These students will no longer have access to grants and loans, unless they meet extremely strict conditions. This measure will not save the government a lot of money.

But it is symptomatic of the narrowness of vision and mean-spiritedness of the separatist movement. Is this the kind of society that the Bloc Quebecois and the Parti Quebecois will want to build, one based on closing doors and building walls by limiting the opportunities of young people to broaden their horizons?

What a vision, what an obsctacle to our young people's development.

Israeli ElectionStatements By Members

2:10 p.m.

Liberal

Sarkis Assadourian Liberal Don Valley North, ON

Mr. Speaker, I rise in the House today to congratulate Benjamin Netanyahu on his election as Prime Minister of Israel.

I am encouraged by the statement made by the Prime Minister that he will continue to pursue the peace process initiated by his predecessor. He stated: "Let us go in the way of peace. Let us go in the way of security for everyone, for all the nations in the region".

I urge the Government of Canada to convey our strong desire for a continuation of the peace process, and I urge hon. members of the House to write to the new Prime Minister of Israel to encourage him to build a lasting peace for Israel and for the Middle East.

Manpower TrainingOral Question Period

2:15 p.m.

Roberval Québec

Bloc

Michel Gauthier BlocLeader of the Opposition

Mr. Speaker, the Minister of Human Resources Development made his proposal for reorganizing the manpower sector public last week.

Negotiations will be conducted with the provincial governments to reach agreements reflecting the aims of the various Canadian provinces. The minister also confirmed that a number of departments in the federal government are involved in the area of manpower training.

Could the minister confirm that the training programs administered by departments other than his own will be included in his negotiations with the provinces?

Manpower TrainingOral Question Period

2:15 p.m.

Acadie—Bathurst New Brunswick

Liberal

Douglas Young LiberalMinister of Human Resources Development

Mr. Speaker, clearly the aim of the Government of Canada is to ensure arrangements are made to ensure these programs are managed effectively and by those in the best position to do so.

I would like to assure the hon. Leader of the Opposition that we fully intend to act on the proposal we made to the provinces whereby the Government of Canada would co-operate in every way possible with the provinces, as the provinces wish. However, I have no doubt that, once discussions are underway, there will be little that is not on the table in the context of the question raised by the hon. Leader of the Opposition.

Manpower TrainingOral Question Period

2:15 p.m.

Roberval Québec

Bloc

Michel Gauthier BlocLeader of the Opposition

Mr. Speaker, I would ask the minister if he is prepared to table in this House a list of all the training programs the federal government currently administers that come under other departments and that will likely be under negotiation or discussion with the provincial governments.

Manpower TrainingOral Question Period

2:15 p.m.

Acadie—Bathurst New Brunswick

Liberal

Douglas Young LiberalMinister of Human Resources Development

Mr. Speaker, we are in fact trying to identify throughout the operations of the Government of Canada items that would be of interest in discussions with the provinces, however, I must tell you we have to be careful. The mandate of the Minister of Human Resources Development is limited. I do not want to walk on my colleagues' toes, but we will try to do our level best to be sure to meet our commitment to show once again that Canadian federalism is flexible and that it works.

Manpower TrainingOral Question Period

2:15 p.m.

Roberval Québec

Bloc

Michel Gauthier BlocLeader of the Opposition

Mr. Speaker, I would like the minister to table this list, in any case. We would be interested in reading it, because we know there are a huge number of programs, which require our attention.

Would the minister tell us, by way of example, whether the proposed $315 million he announced this spring to help young people find jobs will be included in the negotiations between Ottawa and the provinces wanting it?

Manpower TrainingOral Question Period

2:15 p.m.

Acadie—Bathurst New Brunswick

Liberal

Douglas Young LiberalMinister of Human Resources Development

Mr. Speaker, obviously, we want to continue to ensure that young people and others affected by the operations of my department will continue to receive the services they need during this transition period.

Obviously, for this year, at least in the next few months, we will have to continue to manage these programs. Clearly, however, we are prepared to put on the table all the items we proposed and were prepared to negotiate with the provinces, depending on the point in time negotiations are concluded and on the content of the agreements.

Manpower TrainingOral Question Period

2:15 p.m.

Bloc

Francine Lalonde Bloc Mercier, QC

Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Minister of Human Resources Development, who tells us that he will do everything in his power to ensure that all the programs are subject to negotiation. I would like to tell him that we will see to it. We will see to it that he does not step on his colleagues' toes and that his actions are not interpreted in such a manner.

If everything is subject to negotiation, can the minister confirm that the Council for Canadian Unity, which is currently managing the Experience Canada program, will no longer be responsible for this training program?

Manpower TrainingOral Question Period

2:20 p.m.

Acadie—Bathurst New Brunswick

Liberal

Douglas Young LiberalMinister of Human Resources Development

Mr. Speaker, I do not want to guess as to what the outcome of all these negotiations will be. However, with regard to the Experience Canada program, we do have other partners, including some major stakeholders from the private sector.

For now, we expect to remain responsible for the management of these programs. As I told the Leader of the Opposition, if agreements are reached with some provinces that accept everything we have to offer at the negotiation table, we will, of course, respect those agreements.

I am convinced that, in some cases, in some provinces, for whatever reason, maybe because they do not have the network or the resources needed to deliver these programs, we will still want

the private sector or other organizations to get involved, including the Council for Canadian Unity.

I want to stress the fact that, for the provinces that have the capacity or the willingness to take on responsibility for the management of these kinds of programs, then, of course, the programs will be managed pursuant to the agreement reached during the bilateral negotiations.

Manpower TrainingOral Question Period

2:20 p.m.

Bloc

Francine Lalonde Bloc Mercier, QC

Mr. Speaker, another issue worth following.

Will the minister confirm that, upon the completion of these negotiations, which do not need to last three years, some youth training programs will end up with no funding?

Manpower TrainingOral Question Period

2:20 p.m.

Acadie—Bathurst New Brunswick

Liberal

Douglas Young LiberalMinister of Human Resources Development

No, Mr. Speaker, but I can tell the House that, in many cases, the money will come from the employment insurance account. The consolidated fund is used to finance other programs. Also, many of the programs are implemented for a specific length of time, whether it is one, two or three years. That is certainly the case for some of the youth programs that, even before we released our proposal last week, had a deadline.

We will not change our minds at this point and say that we will extend them. If, for some reason, we have to transfer to the provinces some of the funds already provided for in the estimates or the budget, then we will certainly be ready to negotiate these payments.

JusticeOral Question Period

June 3rd, 1996 / 2:20 p.m.

Reform

Randy White Reform Fraser Valley West, BC

Mr. Speaker, my questions are for the justice minister.

Ontario is introducing legislation holding parents financially responsible for crimes committed by their children. It also wants the federal government to act on its recommendation of prosecuting children under 12 for violent crimes. Canadians, I believe, think this is a good idea. It has been part of Reform Party policy for years.

I guess what we really need to know is where the justice minister stands on such ideas. Will he change the Young Offenders Act so parents are held financially responsible for their children's actions and young offenders under 12 are held legally responsible for violent crimes?

JusticeOral Question Period

2:20 p.m.

Etobicoke Centre Ontario

Liberal

Allan Rock LiberalMinister of Justice and Attorney General of Canada

Mr. Speaker, I consider it my first obligation to show sufficient respect for the procedures of the House and its committees to await the report of the Standing Committee on Justice.

This week the committee is holding hearings in Toronto. It is before that committee that the ministers of the Ontario government have expressed the position summarized by my hon. friend.

I have asked the committee to report back this year with recommendations on changes to the Young Offenders Act, including the age of those persons caught by the act, including the range of penalties and including the broader question as to whether the Young Offenders Act represents the best approach to juvenile justice. I have asked the committee to take an open minded and comprehensive look at the whole system. Out of respect for the committee and its work, we will listen to those recommendations, we will act.

JusticeOral Question Period

2:20 p.m.

Reform

Randy White Reform Fraser Valley West, BC

Mr. Speaker, the government has been in place now for three years. It will be well into year four by the time action, if any, does come.

People in Toronto are wondering how much more consultation there will be. They already know that four out of ten robberies last year were committed by juveniles, double what it was ten short years ago. It looks like the Ontario government is taking action fast, not slow like this government.

Does the justice minister agree with the attorney general of Ontario that if 16-year-olds can drive, if they can get married, if they can have families and if they have the moral capacity to understand the consequences of their actions they should be held much more accountable when they go wrong?

JusticeOral Question Period

2:25 p.m.

Etobicoke Centre Ontario

Liberal

Allan Rock LiberalMinister of Justice and Attorney General of Canada

Mr. Speaker, I ask the hon. member to approach with caution the proclamations made by ministers in Ontario. They are doing what they do best, talking tough about crime and pointing the finger at another level of government.

The reality is if the Government of Ontario had followed through on the provincial obligations under the administration of the Young Offenders Act it would be working a lot better than it is today.

In so far as the hon. member's question is concerned with respect to the age of those to whom the act applies, I will await the recommendations of the committee. I have asked it to look at the evidence, not the rhetoric, not the politicians. I have asked it to look at the evidence and come back with recommendations on what ages the act should apply to. I have already told the House we will pay attention to those recommendations.

I want the hon. member to recall that it is this minister of this government who, in Bill C-37, proposed changes to the Young Offenders Act which would mean that 16 and 17-year-olds who are charged with crimes of most serious violence would be tried in adult court. Those members voted against the changes.

JusticeOral Question Period

2:25 p.m.

Reform

Randy White Reform Fraser Valley West, BC

Mr. Speaker, the reality of the situation with regard to the Young Offenders Act is the government has done diddly squat in three years about it. Not only are youth crimes increasing, they are getting much more violent in nature. What worries Canadians is that kids are getting tougher and tougher and the law makers in Ottawa are getting softer and softer.

I recently watched two young offenders in a courtroom laughing at the judge and at the victims. It is no wonder; the Young Offenders Act is woefully lacking.

Since we all know younger kids look to older kids for their cues in life, will the justice minister tell us what specifically he intends to do to send a message to those under the age of 12, who are kicking sand in the justice minister's face, that the government will not be bullied and that it will be tough on those kids?

JusticeOral Question Period

2:25 p.m.

Etobicoke Centre Ontario

Liberal

Allan Rock LiberalMinister of Justice and Attorney General of Canada

Mr. Speaker, I understood the hon. member to say the government has done nothing about young offenders. I believe the hon. member did not complete his sentence. Surely what he meant to say is that we have done nothing about the Young Offenders Act that he has supported.

In Bill C-37 we made important changes to the Young Offenders Act which strengthened it, particularly in relation to violent crime. It will stand on the record of Parliament for the people of Canada to remember in the next election that the party opposite did not support those measures.

In so far as those under 12 are concerned, I have asked the committee expressly to look at that issue. I have given it a variety of models to consider. I have asked it to consult, to listen to the experts, to look at the evidence and to come back with recommendations.

In so far as the safety of the public is concerned, the hon. member, like so many of his colleagues from day to day, seems to think we can make the streets safer or solve the problems of violent crime simply by amending words in a statute sitting on a shelf in a room somewhere in Ottawa. If we are to do anything about crime we have to follow the strategy the government has in place which is not only to have a strong criminal law but to follow through on crime prevention.

Employment CentresOral Question Period

2:30 p.m.

Bloc

Christiane Gagnon Bloc Québec, QC

Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Minister of Human Resources Development.

The Canada employment centres restructuring plan involves incomprehensible decisions. Such is the case for Granby, Trois-Rivières, the Gaspé Peninsula, and others.

In light of the fact that the federal government has just tabled its proposals in the area of manpower, will the minister not recognize that it would be wiser to suspend the relocation of employment centres pending the negotiation of an agreement with Quebec since it could likely result in a reorganization of services?

Employment CentresOral Question Period

2:30 p.m.

Acadie—Bathurst New Brunswick

Liberal

Douglas Young LiberalMinister of Human Resources Development

Mr. Speaker, there are always decisions that are difficult to make. As the member knows, the Canadian government still intends to pay employment insurance benefits to the beneficiaries of that program in the years to come.

However, we have also made a commitment in the budget and said repeatedly that we had to be efficient and try to do things in the most intelligent way possible. That is not easy. There are always people who are unhappy when we have to relocate offices or to downsize, but, in the end, the important thing is that we must be able to provide services to our clients in all the regions, and we are confident that it is always the case.

Employment CentresOral Question Period

2:30 p.m.

Bloc

Christiane Gagnon Bloc Québec, QC

Mr. Speaker, here is my supplementary.

Beyond all these artificial arguments that he may put forward, will the minister not admit that the basic principles of good management require that he put this reorganization on hold since employment centres will eventually fall under the jurisdiction of the Quebec government?

Employment CentresOral Question Period

2:30 p.m.

Acadie—Bathurst New Brunswick

Liberal

Douglas Young LiberalMinister of Human Resources Development

Mr. Speaker, one of the concepts we have found very attractive in the discussions we have had for months and even years is the single window concept, a way to work together in co-operation.

We do not intend to impose anything on the Government of Quebec regarding the way it would want to manage the aspects of the employment insurance program that would fall under its jurisdiction. However, I am also convinced that, in this same spirit of co-operation, the Quebec government would not want to impose anything on us with regard to our part of the program.

JusticeOral Question Period

2:30 p.m.

Reform

Art Hanger Reform Calgary Northeast, AB

Mr. Speaker, the justice minister has tried to put distance between him and one of his most senior officials, Ted Thompson, who was exposed last week for trying to make backroom deals with a federal court judge.

Because Thompson interfered with a judge three cases to deport war criminals living in Canada will likely be thrown out of court. When the minister authorized Thompson to carry out his judicial skulduggery was he aware three Nazis would walk free?

JusticeOral Question Period

2:30 p.m.

Etobicoke Centre Ontario

Liberal

Allan Rock LiberalMinister of Justice and Attorney General of Canada

Mr. Speaker, I have come to expect far better than that from the hon. member. His question is quite outrageous on any number of grounds.

First, he misstates the facts. Second, he ignores my response in the House last week. Third, he speaks in a conclusory fashion about three motions still pending before the federal court.

First, Ted Thompson went over to see the chief justice on March 1 without, to my knowledge, telling anybody at justice, certainly not me. Second, the entire matter is under the scrutiny of the former chief justice of Ontario, who has agreed to interview the people involved, look at the record and make a report. I have already said I will put that report before Parliament. Third, the last thing in the world anybody in justice wants to do is jeopardize the three revocation cases before the court. We have already asked the court not to stay them, notwithstanding anything that may have happened in this matter because there is no connection between the two. That matter has been argued and is under reserve in the federal court.

I invite the hon. member to look at the facts, be careful the way he puts his position and at least adhere to what is already on the record.

JusticeOral Question Period

2:30 p.m.

Reform

Art Hanger Reform Calgary Northeast, AB

Mr. Speaker, clearly the justice minister thinks he can distance himself from Ted Thompson. He thinks he can duck his responsibility for judicial tampering, and that is not good enough. Either the justice minister was not aware of Thompson's activities, in which case he is incompetent or has lost control of his ministry, or the minister has a vested interest in not being aware-