Debates of Oct. 27th, 1997

Environment

[Preston Manning, Reform, Leader of the Opposition]

Mr. Speaker, the way the Liberal government is cooking up this deal on emissions is starting to remind Canadians of how Mulroney cooked up the Meech Lake deal. The process is the same. A few heads of state get together in a room. They agree to some emission deal. It is top down, it is rushed and worst of all, Canada agrees to sign before getting agreement from the key players back home.

This approach did not work for Mulroney on the Constitution. Why is the environment minister creating an environmental Meech Lake accord?

[Christine Stewart, Liberal, Minister of the Environment]

Mr. Speaker, as I have said many times before, the government is committed to legally binding targets that we will sign onto with other annex I countries in Kyoto, Japan. With respect, the government is also working in a serious style of negotiation with all of the partners in this country who, after Kyoto, have to be involved in putting in the measures necessary to meet our targets. We do this with respect in our negotiating process.

[Preston Manning, Reform, Leader of the Opposition]

Mr. Speaker, it would seem to me that if you are taking a common sense approach to negotiating an environmental deal, you do a few common sense things first. You get an agreement from the provinces, the industries and the consumers at the front end. You get an agreement in Canada about appropriate levels, about what costs are acceptable and how to implement. Then you take this made in Canada deal to Kyoto and you sign the treaty only if it meets or exceeds your criteria.

My question for the environment minister is, is this common sense approach not preferable to the top down, cart before the horse, Meech Lake approach the government is taking?

[Christine Stewart, Liberal, Minister of the Environment]

Mr. Speaker, I would like to ask the Reform Party what its own position is on this very serious global issue. Is it going to continue to put its head in the sand and say that there is no problem?

This is an issue which implicates the future for our children and our grandchildren. In its own Reform document the Reform Party says it supports ensuring that all Canadians dwell in a clean and healthy environment. When are you going to start standing up for—

[The Speaker]

My colleagues, I invite you please to address your remarks to the Chair.

[Preston Manning, Reform, Leader of the Opposition]

Mr. Speaker, Reform's approach has been for years to balance environmental and economic concerns. The way to do that is to go to the Canadian players first and get an agreement. You get an agreement on levels. You get an agreement on costs. You get an agreement on implementation. Then you take the made in Canada agreement to Kyoto and negotiate with the international players and they sign if they get agreement.

Why does the minister not take that approach in that sequence? Why does she start at the top, say she is going to sign something and then come back and persuade the Canadian players to get an agreement?

[Christine Stewart, Liberal, Minister of the Environment]

Mr. Speaker, I, other ministers in our government and our officials have held many, many meetings over the years with officials and other parties to this important negotiation. With respect, the Reform Party cannot even listen to its own critic about its position.

[Bill Gilmour, Reform, Nanaimo—Alberni, BC]

Mr. Speaker, in response to the environment minister, I would like to make my position abundantly clear. I oppose a gas tax. I oppose an energy tax. I oppose an environment tax. I even hate the GST.

I would like to ask the minister, why will the environment minister not do the same thing?

[Christine Stewart, Liberal, Minister of the Environment]

Mr. Speaker, the government is open to looking at many alternatives with our partners in dealing with this important issue which affects all Canadians.

I suppose the critic opposite is suggesting that he is responding to his own quotes where he says “You have to look at the whole package of where you are going to go, where you want to be. Yes, environmental taxes even may be part of the equation if they are dedicated”.

[Bill Gilmour, Reform, Nanaimo—Alberni, BC]

Mr. Speaker, let me say it again. The Reform Party will strenuously oppose any new tax the Liberals bring in, thanks to Kyoto. No gas tax, no energy tax, no environment tax, no green tax at all, no tax period.

Why will the minister not stand in her place today and tell Canadians that the Liberals will not raise taxes because of their backroom deal in Kyoto?

[Christine Stewart, Liberal, Minister of the Environment]

Mr. Speaker, this issue is much more important than the scare mongering of the Reform Party on the issue of taxes.

I would like to ask the Reform Party what they are going to do, what are their own suggestions about dealing with greenhouse gas emissions.

Linguistic School Boards

[Gilles Duceppe, Bloc, Laurier—Sainte-Marie, QC]

Mr. Speaker, rumours are flying about the government's support for the section 93 constitutional amendment.

The Minister of Intergovernmental Affairs promised to act quickly so that the Government of Quebec could go ahead with this reform.

Can the Minister of Intergovernmental Affairs tell us if the government intends to require all Liberal members to vote in favour of this amendment?

[Don Boudria, Liberal, Leader of the Government in the House of Commons]

Mr. Speaker, there is no doubt about the government's support for this initiative. As for whether the Prime Minister intends to insist on party discipline or whether he will allow a free vote, only the Prime Minister can answer this question in due course. But it is a government initiative proposed in this House, and it is the government's intention, of course, to proceed.

[Gilles Duceppe, Bloc, Laurier—Sainte-Marie, QC]

Mr. Speaker, one of the principles underlying oral question period is that the government is accountable and must answer. If the Prime Minister is not here, it does not mean the government ceases to operate.

I therefore ask the Minister of Intergovernmental Affairs to tell us if the government intends to require all Liberal members to vote in favour of this amendment and not to engage in doubletalk with statements to the effect that the government is favourable, but that members are being allowed to vote as they wish and that it does not recognize the unanimous request of the Government of Quebec.

[Stéphane Dion, Liberal, President of the Queen's Privy Council for Canada and Minister of Intergovernmental Affairs]

Mr. Speaker, the Government of Canada supports the constitutional amendment passed unanimously by the National Assembly. We think it is important to have a parliamentary committee, particularly as there was not one in the National Assembly. We think that the amendment should be approved because it is good for Quebec and because there is consensus. A committee is doing its work and members should quit their politicking.

[Pierre Brien, Bloc, Témiscamingue, QC]

Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Minister of Intergovernmental Affairs.

In 1993, when New Brunswick needed a constitutional amendment to make French and English the province's official languages, the Prime Minister, who was then the leader of the opposition, demanded that Liberal members show solidarity in supporting New Brunswick's request.

Does the minister intend to make the same recommendation to the government, to ensure Quebec's request for an amendment meets with success?

[Don Boudria, Liberal, Leader of the Government in the House of Commons]

Mr. Speaker, it is important to remember that the first time New Brunswick's request was debated in this House, the small number of Bloc Quebecois members who were here at the time refused to support it, thus preventing us from having the unanimous consent necessary to make the change before the election. The Bloc Quebecois opposed the request.

[An hon. member]

It is not true.

[Pierre Brien, Bloc, Témiscamingue, QC]

Mr. Speaker, the Bloc Quebecois wanted a recorded division to force everyone in this House to show his or her true colours and we got it.

My question is for the Minister of Intergovernmental Affairs. Are not the current hesitations of the government an indication that the various interest groups and lobbies are getting their way and are beginning to weaken the unanimous consent of the National Assembly?

[Stéphane Dion, Liberal, President of the Queen's Privy Council for Canada and Minister of Intergovernmental Affairs]

Mr. Speaker, Quebec is a pluralistic society whose people hold various views.

The federal government reviewed the issue and concluded there was a consensus for a measure that would be appropriate for Quebec society. The committee is doing its work and we will await the results.

Taxation

[Alexa McDonough, NDP, Halifax, NS]

Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Minister of Finance.

Nova Scotia's premier is back in Ottawa. This former Liberal member of Parliament is now telling anyone who will listen that he left federal politics to try to undo the damage caused by four years of disastrous Liberal policy.

Can the finance minister confirm that he will today discuss with the Nova Scotia premier ways to undo the damage of cuts to education, undo the damage of cuts to health care and undo the damage being caused to Nova Scotians by his blended sales tax?

[Paul Martin, Liberal, Minister of Finance]

Mr. Speaker, indeed today I will be meeting with the premier of Nova Scotia. He is coming here with a number of items to discuss with myself and with other members. I look forward to this particular discussion.

The premier of Nova Scotia, long time a member of this House, is an outstanding Canadian. He has a very clear vision of the future of Nova Scotia. We will do everything we possibly can to make sure that Nova Scotia continues to progress.

[Alexa McDonough, NDP, Halifax, NS]

Mr. Speaker, they may actually get somewhere in this pre-election flurry.

When he was an MP the Nova Scotia premier voted for the blended sales tax. He now admits that the BST is hurting Nova Scotians. The Prime Minister on the other hand is busy gloating that he has worked the bugs out of the BST, that it is a great tax.

Will the finance minister be meeting with the Nova Scotia premier to reminisce about the days when they were BST boosters together in the Liberal caucus, or will he instead get down to business and undo the BST and the damage it is causing to Nova Scotians?

[Paul Martin, Liberal, Minister of Finance]

Mr. Speaker, the harmonized sales tax is supported by the chamber of commerce and all of the small and medium size business groups in Nova Scotia precisely because it has lowered taxes for consumers, because it has lowered their administrative costs and it is enabling them to create jobs.

I am very surprised that the leader of the NDP, who has some experience in Nova Scotia, would not support the premier of Nova Scotia who is an outstanding Canadian, an outstanding representative of Atlantic Canada, and who is here to do his best by the province. What the leader of the NDP ought to do is to support him in his desire to improve—

[The Speaker]

The hon. member for Sherbrooke.