Debates of Nov. 20th, 1997

Seal Hunting

[Yvan Bernier, Bloc, Bonaventure—Gaspé—Îles-De-La-Madeleine—Pabok, QC]

Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Minister of Fisheries and Oceans.

The opponents of seal hunting are currently running ads in which hunters are seen performing unspeakable acts on these animals. There are two possibilities: either this is fake footage, in which case it needs to be denounced for what it is, or these acts really were committed, in which case the perpetrators need to be prosecuted.

Can the Minister of Fisheries and Oceans make a commitment to initiate an investigation in order to inform this House as to whether seal hunting is indeed being carried out in accordance with the standards and the law?

[Wayne Easter, Liberal, Parliamentary Secretary to Minister of Fisheries and Oceans]

Mr. Speaker, clearly the seal hunt is being directed according to law.

The facts are that the total allowable catch for last year was not met. There were 261, 354 harp seals caught and 7,058 hooded seals. We can assure the member that DFO is doing all it can to see there is no illegal seal hunt.

Health

[Judy Wasylycia-Leis, NDP, Winnipeg North Centre, MB]

Mr. Speaker, we have had political interference with parliamentary signings on drug patent legislation. We have had political editing of an independent audit of drug research and now we have a political whitewash of scientific findings that show dangerously high levels of lead in children's toys.

Whatever his agenda, will the Minister of Health at least agree to put children first and will he pull off the market any children's toys and plastic products that exceed his department's own standards for lead content and that could create irreversible neurological damage among children?

[Allan Rock, Liberal, Minister of Health]

Mr. Speaker, I wish the hon. member would confine herself to the facts when she speaks about the safety of children. It is not fair to children or their parents to create misimpressions about these things.

We recently received and looked carefully at data about the safety of toys. We satisfied ourselves that all the toys tested had levels of materials that did not pose a threat to the safety of children.

This is National Child Day. I urge the hon. member to join with me and the government in celebrating our children, not in scaring them in this way.

Canada Post

[Gilles Bernier, Progressive Conservative, Tobique—Mactaquac, NB]

Mr. Speaker, this week the government told Canadian charities that they would have to run out of money. It told small businesses that they would have to put some employees out of work. Yesterday the government ran out of time and now it is clear that it is out of ideas.

Does the government have any clue how it will end the postal strike, or will it leave Canadians wishing that they had thrown the government out of office?

[Lawrence MacAulay, Liberal, Minister of Labour]

Mr. Speaker, again what we must do in this country is let the collective bargaining system work. The collective bargaining system has served workers and management well.

Let the people of CUPW and the post office sit down and come up with a collective agreement that will be better for all Canadians.

David Gussow

[The Speaker]

My colleagues, today is rather a special day for one of our table officers.

Today is the last day David Gussow, Deputy Principal Clerk in Procedural Services, will act as table officer.

David will be leaving this week to take his well earned retirement after 25 years of devoted service on Parliament Hill. He began his career at the Library of Parliament in 1972 and he went on to work in various capacities in the House, becoming a table officer here with us in 1990.

I know, my colleagues, that you would like to join with me in recognizing David's long and successful career.

I want to wish you, David, your wife Margaret and your two children good health and much happiness in the years to come.

[Some hon. members]

Hear, hear.

[The Speaker]

Before we proceed to tributes to a former parliamentarian, Mr. Thompson, I am going to entertain a question of privilege from the hon. member for Leeds—Grenville and then I am going to come immediately to the tributes.

Privilege

[Joe Jordan, Liberal, Leeds—Grenville, ON]

Mr. Speaker, I rise on a point of personal privilege. I must say that in between the tributes that we are about to pay I am troubled that I should even have to say this because this is a very honourable place in which we work, and I think everybody realizes that.

During question period the member for Edmonton North saw fit to refer to some sort of clandestine operation she undertook and then alluded to comments that one of the people who worked on my staff said. That person is not here to defend themselves.

I fall short of saying that this is McCarthyism but—

[The Speaker]

This is surely not a point of privilege. We have one member saying one thing which is perhaps a point of view, an interpretation of the facts. We have another member who I think was going to say that this did not take place.

If that is the case, then we have a matter of dispute of the facts. I would hope that this type of thing would not occur, but it is not a question of privilege. It is a point of information, surely, that he wants to pass on. The point is well taken by the House.

Business Of The House

[Randy White, Reform, Langley—Abbotsford, BC]

Mr. Speaker, I would like to get the government House leader to provide the House with some information about the legislation that is coming forward in the House for the remainder of this week and for the balance of next week.

More specifically, I would also like him to let the House know how many days are planned for the debate on Bill C-2, the Canada pension bill.

[Don Boudria, Liberal, Leader of the Government in the House of Commons]

Mr. Speaker, let me begin by thanking the House leaders of all parties for their co-operation in trying to arrange what I believe to be so far an orderly program for this House.

That program calls for the business for the next week as follows. Tomorrow morning we will deal with second reading of Bill C-17, respecting Teleglobe. In the afternoon I understand that there is agreement to deal with the report stage and third reading of Bill C-7 regarding the Saguenay park.

On Monday I understand that there is also agreement to deal with all stages of the legislation on land mines that was introduced earlier today. It is also my understanding that the House may sit into the evening to complete the said bill.

Tuesday shall be the final allotted day in the present period with votes on main and supplementary estimates and on the consequent appropriation bill or bills at the end of the day.

I am pleased to respond as well on Bill C-2. Next Wednesday and Thursday it is our intention to consider the report stage of Bill C-2 respecting the Canada pension plan.

Next Friday we will consider the report stage and third reading of Bill C-10, respecting certain international tax conventions.

This is the business statement at least as can be determined at the present time.

The Late Robert Thompson

[The Speaker]

My colleagues, we will now proceed to tributes to Mr. Thompson, who was with us. He was a member of the Social Credit Party and also a member of the Conservative Party.

[Rick Borotsik, Progressive Conservative, Brandon—Souris, MB]

Mr. Speaker, I rise today to pay tribute to Dr. Robert Thompson who came to this House in 1962 to represent his constituents of Red Deer, Alberta and to lead the Social Credit Party at a time of great political change.

He served in the House from 1962 until 1972, a decade. What a decade in political life. In those ten years there were five general elections. The Social Credit Party which Bob Thompson led in 1962 was a power to be reckoned with in the west and in Quebec.

Press accounts of the day paint a picture of a new leader and a new party running against the establishment. When the Social Credit Party collapsed, he ran successfully as a Progressive Conservative and in 1968 he was a member until the general election in 1972.

Bob Thompson served his country in Parliament and also in the Royal Canadian Air Force when Canada was engaged in pilot training during World War II.

He served humanity as an educator here and in Ethiopia. He was a minister of education in the imperial Ethiopian government from 1947 until 1951. After his political life, he maintained his interest in teaching and public affairs. In 1982 he prepared a model constitution for Canada.

His strong religious faith is reflected in his coat of arms, the motto being translated “In the will of God”. Mr. Thompson was made an officer of the Order of Canada in national recognition of his service.

Today the House of Commons pays tribute to him. In doing so, we thank his family for sharing him with Canada. His eight children and his widow Evelyn had less of his presence and time because of his public service.

Today we mourn him, we honour his memory and we thank his family for sharing him with this House and with Canada.

[Herb Gray, Liberal, Deputy Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, it is with regret that we learned of the passing of Bob Thompson. His career was rich and varied in service to others. Bob taught school in Alberta before the war. He was an officer in the Royal Canadian Air Force. He went to Ethiopia in 1943 both as a teacher and as an air force officer. During the forties and fifties he served with distinction as an educator in Ethiopia and in the Sudan before returning to enter public life in Canada.

He was the national leader of the Social Credit Party from 1961 to 1967 and was elected an MP for Red Deer in 1962, 1963, 1965 and 1968. When he retired from Parliament in 1972, he resumed his career as a university teacher and administrator and completed his public service as a member of the parole board.

I served in this House of Commons with Bob throughout his parliamentary career. I recall him as a man of substance and integrity. He was at the centre of events at a time of unusual political tumult. But even those of us with greatly differing political points of view came to respect and admire him for his sincerity and his personal high standards of parliamentary conduct.

I think it is fair to say that despite what a distinguished Canadian author called the distemper of the times, Bob Thompson was a leading parliamentarian without personal enemies. He made a strong contribution to this House and to Canada.

Therefore I wish to extend our sincere condolences to his widow Evelyn and to his family. Bob will certainly be missed in terms of service to Canada. Once again, our sympathy to his widow and his family.

[Deborah Grey, Reform, Edmonton North, AB]

Mr. Speaker, I rise on behalf of the official opposition to pay tribute to an amazing Canadian today.

Robert Norman Thompson gave his life to public service in teaching, missionary work, elected political life and as a roaming emissary, specifically in Ethiopia.

Bob was active as a very young man in the Social Credit movement in Alberta. He honed his political skills at the feet of William Aberhart. This would stand him in good stead for his entire lifetime.

Bob, his wife Hazel and their children served in Ethiopia for years as missionaries. Bob was a teacher who organized and helped set up the modern education system there. He organized an air force training school and was the head of a leprosy mission, among other things. Bob got things done.

When he arrived back in Canada, Bob took over the leadership of the federal Socred Party in 1961 and, as has been mentioned, he was elected to Parliament for Red Deer in 1962 and re-elected in 1963 and 1965. He then ran as a Conservative and was re-elected in 1968.

In 1972 Bob left politics and moved out to the west coast. He helped found Trinity Western University in Langley, B.C. He taught political science there and sponsored many Ethiopian students over the years.

It was at Trinity that I met Bob Thompson in the mid-1970s. One strong memory I have of him was when I was involved in a terrible accident with the Trinity van. He was planning on taking a singing team out that same evening and called me after I had been released from the hospital. He said to me “Well, sis, what am I suppose to use for a vehicle tonight now that you have wrecked the van?”

When I was elected to this Parliament in 1989, Bob became an instant adviser. How I appreciated him as a mentor. I mentioned the other day that Bob was fast, feisty and a fierce competitor when it came to political debate. We had some wild and exciting political discussions which taught me a lot. He was a wonderful role model to me and I appreciated that.

After Bob's wife Hazel passed away, he married a long time friend and fellow missionary, Evelyn Brant, in 1993. Lew and I also married in 1993, so we considered ourselves the twin couples. Lew and I quickly fell in love with Evelyn and all enjoyed every chance we could get to have a visit when we were out in the Vancouver area.

Just this past summer we enjoyed a wonderful visit, complete with Bob's giving me advice about my new position as a member of Her Majesty's Loyal Opposition. It is a special memory that I will always treasure.

The world is a better place because Bob Thompson was in it. Thank you, Bob, for all you gave us. Thank you, Evelyn, and all Bob's children for sharing him with us. Bless you all.

[Madeleine Dalphond-Guiral, Bloc, Laval Centre, QC]

Mr. Speaker, both personally and on behalf of my colleagues in the Bloc Quebecois, I would like to offer my most sincere condolences to the family of Robert Thompson, who passed away on November 16.

Mr. Thompson was born in Duluth, Minnesota. After World War II, he was involved in the reconstruction of Ethiopia, holding a number of senior positions within the Ethiopian government. He earned particular renown as the director of the Ethiopian Air Force Academy, and subsequently as the deputy minister of education, a position he held for 16 years.

On his return to Canada in 1958, Mr. Thompson got actively involved in politics. He became the leader of the Social Credit Party in 1962. That same year marked his first election to the House of Commons. He was to represent the people of Red Deer for 10 years, first as a Social Credit MP from 1962 to 1967, and then as a Conservative from 1968 to 1972.

Once he left politics, Mr. Thompson moved on to a distinguished career as a professor of political science and vice-chairman of the board of governors of Trinity-Western University. In 1975 he was appointed Canadian High Commissioner to Singapore.

We parliamentarians realize full well how demanding political life is, and what commitment and generosity it demands. For this reason, we must pay particular tribute to the professionalism and devotion shown by Mr. Thompson throughout his entire political career. His family and friends have every reason to be proud of him and of all his accomplishments.

[Lorne Nystrom, NDP, Qu'Appelle, SK]

Mr. Speaker, I do want to add the voice of the New Democratic Party to those of others in expressing our sadness at the loss of Mr. Bob Thompson.

When I was first elected to Parliament in 1968 he was a member of the Conservative Party, actually sitting in the House roughly where the Conservative Party sits today. I remember speaking to him. I was only 22 years old and he was one of the more seasoned veterans, what I considered to be a very older person in those days, although he was probably only in his fifties at the time. He certainly was a very wise and honourable member of the House and I really appreciated him very much.

He was very unique in many ways. First, he was a teacher, but he was also a chiropractor, a combination we do not see very often. He was a flight lieutenant in World War II with the Royal Canadian Air Force and then, as members have heard, he became involved in Ethiopia where he spent many, many years involved in education and in government.

He was also very unique because he was the Minister of Education for Ethiopia and later on, of course, a Canadian member of Parliament. Those are a couple of unique combinations and very rare indeed. He was a very interesting man.

He returned to his country in 1960, I believe, and became President of the National Social Credit Party. That was an interesting time because the Social Credit Party had been wiped out in 1958, the CCF was down to eight seats at that time and both parties were in the process of rebuilding. The Social Credit Party did rebuild, came back with a stunning 30 seats in the House, with 26 from Quebec led by the deputy leader Réal Caouette, who later split away and formed the Ralliement des créditistes.

Mr. Thompson persevered and stayed on and ran again in 1963 and in 1965 and was re-elected as a member of the Social Credit Party. If my understanding is correct, he did not like the direction that his party was taking or the configuration of the party after the split with the créditistes. He switched parties in 1968 and ran as a member of the Conservative Party in the same riding of Red Deer and, of course, was re-elected.

Our party differed on many of the ideas and philosophies that Mr. Thompson held, but we respected him as a very honourable man who made a great contribution to the House and to this country. I think we can learn a lot from his legacy.

With all sincerity, I wish to convey my condolences and the condolences of the New Democratic Party to his wife Evelyn, his eight children, to his many grandchildren and great grandchildren and his friends. This country will surely miss him.

[Randy White, Reform, Langley—Abbotsford, BC]

Mr. Speaker, Bob Thompson was a most influential political force in the House during the 1960s, but that is not where his political influence started or stopped.

His involvement as a political science professor at Trinity-Western University, the very university he was a founder of, has influenced many a student to change this country for the better. The deputy leader of today's Reform Party, my colleague from Edmonton North, was indeed one of the people influenced by Bob Thompson.

Very few people have influenced our nation in so many ways as Bob Thompson has. How was it possible for one person to be an officer during the Second World War, a federal member of Parliament, the organizer of Ethiopia's boy scout group, a school principal, a deputy minister of education, a leader of a federal political party, chairman of the board of governors of a university, founder of a school for dyslexic children in my riding, an author, and on and on and on his influence goes.

Yet, through all of that, he devoted much of his time to his family, his friends, his community. His influence on me was significant. Bob often shared his vast experiences with me even when I was a rookie candidate. He advised me, he informed me when I was on the wrong path and as recently as a couple of months ago, he summoned me to discuss my position and responsibilities as opposition house leader and how to deal with the complexities of the unity issue.

I was proud to be asked to speak with him. He was a sincere, knowledgeable and wise visionary. Bob Thompson's family, friends, community, church and country will miss him dearly and I send my sincere condolences to all of them. As for me, I shall miss the greatest political mentor of my life.

Thank you, Bob Thompson.

The House resumed consideration of Bill C-4, an act to amend the Canadian Wheat Board Act and to make consequential amendments to other acts, as reported (with amendment) from the committee; and Motions Nos. 2, 31 and 41.

Canadian Wheat Board Act

[The Deputy Speaker]

The hon. member for Portage—Lisgar has four minutes remaining in his intervention.

[Jake Hoeppner, Reform, Portage—Lisgar, MB]

Mr. Speaker, I would like to take the last four minutes and address the issue of exclusion costs. The hon. member for Brandon—Souris moved this amendment to exclude both the inclusion and the exclusion clause.

You would wonder why this clause became an issue. We were dealing more or less with the exclusion clause in Bill C-72 and we did not hear too many complaints about the exclusion clause until an ill wind from the east brought up the idea of an inclusion clause. This idea was planted in committee. It was planted in hearings that we held in western Canada. We found out very quickly that this inclusion clause that was proposed for C-72 would create a lot of problems.

Now we see what this has really done. The member for Brandon—Souris, and I think rightly so, has made an amendment to exclude both. When we looked at the commodity groups or had them before as witnesses, they were dead set against this inclusion clause because their farmers that control the commodity groups would have nothing to do with the inclusion clause. I was somewhat surprised why they were so hesitant or why they objected the most to this clause.

I was talking to some railway officials just this last week and we got by accident on this inclusion clause and I said: “Can you inform me somewhat why, in the special crops industry, this is such a harsh clause or this is such a harsh thing to deal with?”

They explained to me that with the exclusion of the special crops from the wheat board, the commodity groups controlled completely the buying of the grain, the moving of the grain and the transporting of the grain across the ocean. When customers want to buy some of the special crops like canola, sunflowers, canary seeds, they buy it on the basis that it is delivered right to their plants. That relieves a lot of headaches for them. They demand delivery. When they buy a product, that product better be delivered on time or else there are huge fines or huge discounts.

The companies that control these special crops have a tremendous record of getting that crop to the destination. This has always been the problem of the wheat board grains. We do not want to just blame the board for some of these problems but the board grains are always on the basis f.o.b. Vancouver, Thunder Bay or Montreal and that is where it stops.

After that, it is up to the customers to try to find transportation to organize it, to bring that product to their plants or to their processors. This has become a real issue as far as the Canadian Wheat Board grains are concerned, the delivery of those board grains.

Customers demand that they have delivery on time because it offsets their production times. It offsets the commitments they have made to the finished end users of their products.

I think this clause has to be removed. If it takes the exclusion clause to go along with the inclusion clause, that has to be supported by this House no matter what because we do not want to ruin or hamper the special crops industries which have really been the survival of western farmers in the last decade or two.

If we should take away the special crops, farmers would all be bankrupt today and they would not be able to survive on just the wheat board grains.

It is sometimes hard to believe the issues that arise when some of these bills or amendments are dealt with. It has made me a little wiser as far as the transportation of special crops is concerned. I think we have to do everything humanly possible to either amend this bill to a point where it is acceptable by farmers or completely table it and forget about it until some other government will take the bull by the horns and give western farmers what they want, a choice that will make the system work.

As one of the Liberal members asked, how can we fix this inclusion and exclusion clause issue? It is very simple. All we have to do is make the Canadian Wheat Board a voluntary institution and all these problems will be resolved by themselves.

Farmers will take their product to the place where it is shipped, where it brings the best price, where it is delivered to the customers because they want to produce a product that is used and has benefited other countries as well as our own.

[Garry Breitkreuz, Reform, Yorkton—Melville, SK]

Mr. Speaker, I would like to propose a lawyer board at this time. Rather than a wheat board, I think we should have a lawyer board in Canada.

All lawyers' services should be marketed through a central agency and this central agency should have its contracts approved by government. It should apply only to the lawyers in Ontario and Quebec and these lawyers should not be paid directly. All earnings should go through a central fund.

[Wayne Easter, Liberal, Parliamentary Secretary to Minister of Fisheries and Oceans]

Mr. Speaker, I rise on a point of order. I do not believe this member is talking about the motion before us. Maybe he is proposing a new agency that the Reform Party might support, but we are really talking about the Canadian Wheat Board here and how to maximize returns back to primary producers.