Debates of Nov. 28th, 1997

The Environment

[Christine Stewart, Liberal, Minister of the Environment]

Mr. Speaker, the government has worked very closely with all Canadians on this issue: provinces, territories, business, industry, environmental groups, municipalities and Canadian citizens.

Good environmentalists have a 3R background: reduce, recycle, reuse. This Reform Party has refused, refused, refused: refused the science, refused to know and acknowledge that Canadians are concerned about this issue and refused to acknowledge that this is a real issue.

Kyoto Summit

[Suzanne Tremblay, Bloc, Rimouski—Mitis, QC]

Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Minister of the Environment.

The press conference scheduled for this morning prior to the Kyoto summit was cancelled.

My question is a very simple one. Would the minister tell this House why the government is hung up on the Kyoto summit, and is unable to make its position public?

[Christine Stewart, Liberal, Minister of the Environment]

Mr. Speaker, the government was committed to making our targets and time lines known in time for the Kyoto conference. On Monday our targets and time lines will be made public. At the moment we continue to negotiate in good faith, not only with all of our partners in Canada but internationally as well.

[Suzanne Tremblay, Bloc, Rimouski—Mitis, QC]

Mr. Speaker, I hope the minister is aware of the time difference, and I trust that she will go over there armed with the photocopier number, because if things go on as they are, she is going to need it to communicate the government position.

She tells us that she is negotiating in good faith, but what credibility will she have on arrival in Kyoto if, right up until then, she has been unable to make her government's position public? How can her world partners take her seriously?

[Christine Stewart, Liberal, Minister of the Environment]

Mr. Speaker, in the international community the Canadian government is very well respected for our efforts at negotiating important consensus. It is more important that we come out of Kyoto with a consensual agreement world-wide on how we as an international community are going to reduce greenhouse gases.

Canada continues to negotiate with other countries, some of whom have put their targets on the table. We are trying to find a consensual opinion.

[Bernard Bigras, Bloc, Rosemont, QC]

Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Minister of the Environment.

For weeks now, the minister has been telling us she has all the flexibility required to allow the government to take a bold approach at the Kyoto summit.

Since the government obviously still has no position, is it prepared to endorse the Quebec position, which suggests that it should go beyond the objective set by Japan?

[Christine Stewart, Liberal, Minister of the Environment]

Mr. Speaker, this government does have a position. We have had a position. I have explained what our negotiating position is. Our targets and time lines will be made public on Monday.

[Bernard Bigras, Bloc, Rosemont, QC]

Mr. Speaker, how does the minister explain her government's inability to play the lead role in this area that it has with anti-personnel mines?

[Christine Stewart, Liberal, Minister of the Environment]

Mr. Speaker, on December 8 and 10 ministers from around the world will be going to Kyoto and they will be making decisions in that period of time on behalf of the global community on how all citizens of this world can confront this very real and serious issue.

Canada will be there. We will play our full role.

Apec

[Bill Blaikie, NDP, Winnipeg—Transcona, MB]

Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Deputy Prime Minister. It has to do with the fact that many Canadians are embarrassed, and indeed many Liberals are embarrassed, by the rather cryptic remarks of the Prime Minister with respect to the pepper spraying of demonstrators.

I wonder whether the Deputy Prime Minister would care to defend the Prime Minister's remarks. I wonder if he would also at the same time condemn the fact that peaceful demonstrators were asked to sign pledges that they would not demonstrate against APEC or countries at APEC on pain of being arrested. What is going on—

[The Acting Speaker (Mr. McClelland)]

The hon. Deputy Prime Minister.

[Herb Gray, Liberal, Deputy Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, Canada as host of the APEC conference has an obligation under international law to defend the integrity of the precinct where the meeting is taking place. With respect to the use of pepper spray, the RCMP has announced that is under review. I understand the concerns of Canadians about whether appropriate procedures were followed.

[Bill Blaikie, NDP, Winnipeg—Transcona, MB]

Mr. Speaker, the Deputy Prime Minister has refused to condemn the requiring of peaceful demonstrators to sign pledges not to do things unpleasing to the government. The theory of the Liberals is that trading with other countries helps them to adopt our values. The government is not worried that what is actually happening is that we are adopting their values. We are getting more like them instead of them getting more like us.

[Herb Gray, Liberal, Deputy Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, the hon. member's question shows that his allegation could not possibly be correct. The RCMP is reviewing the appropriateness of the matter of signing these undertakings. I am sure more will have to be said. I understand the concerns this practice has created. I believe it should be fully looked into and further reports should be made as a result

The Economy

[Jean Charest, Progressive Conservative, Sherbrooke, QC]

Mr. Speaker, I hope the report will include some information about instructions given by the Prime Minister's Office.

My question is about Canadian retailers and small business who will soon start one of the most important periods of the year, the month of December. What is the government trying to accomplish with policies of high payroll taxes, with an increase of 70% in CPP premiums, with an increase in interest rates this week and further increases in interest rates, and a postal strike to add to business people's pain? What message are they sending to Main Street business people in Canada who are trying to earn a living?

[Jim Peterson, Liberal, Secretary of State (International Financial Institutions)]

Mr. Speaker, I am pleased that our government was able to announce a 20¢ decrease in the EI tax. This is a major breakthrough. It is a major concession because it has cost us $1.4 billion. How can he say that this is negligible?

[Jean Charest, Progressive Conservative, Sherbrooke, QC]

Mr. Speaker, the minister must be out to lunch. Today he will probably find out that a major union in this country is pursuing this government, that it is bringing the government to court over the abuse of the EI system in using it for the purpose of reducing the deficit.

Since this government seems to be encouraging further increases in interest rates, is it really saying to Canadians that even if the unemployment rate were at 8% that it is okay to have well over a million Canadians out of work. It is fine with this Liberal government. As long as it meets its deficit numbers it does not actually care whether there are more poor children, whether there are people out of work, or whether we have a lower standard of living.

[Jim Peterson, Liberal, Secretary of State (International Financial Institutions)]

Mr. Speaker, our record has been to create over one million jobs since we have taken office. We realize this is not enough and we want to see it go even further. In terms of interest rates, Canada today as a result of the sound economic policies we have pursued, has the lowest five-year mortgage rate in history. We have the lowest 30-year rate on our debt. These are sound accomplishments on behalf of all Canadians.

The Environment

[Rob Anders, Reform, Calgary West, AB]

Mr. Speaker, we only have three sleeps left before the Kyoto conference starts, and still no plan from this government. This conference starts Monday. Will the environment minister write her plan in the plane on the back of an air sickness bag? Why will she not come out from under her rock and tell us her plan now?

[Christine Stewart, Liberal, Minister of the Environment]

Mr. Speaker, the Reform needs to start listening, listening to what this government's position is, which has been articulated for weeks in this House of Commons. Reform needs to start listening to the people of this country who in the vast majority say that this is an important issue. They want the government to do something about it and they are willing to take their part. When will the Reform Party get serious about this issue?

[Rob Anders, Reform, Calgary West, AB]

Mr. Speaker, I cannot listen to a Liberal press conference that gets cancelled because of internal caucus divisions. The environment minister says that she only has a minor glitch in her plan. Never mind the minor glitches, I am still concerned about the major glitches of the plan like how much it will cost or how she will pay for it.

[Christine Stewart, Liberal, Minister of the Environment]

Mr. Speaker, perhaps on Monday the Reform Party will be around to hear what our targets and time lines are.

In the meantime, over the weekend they might talk to their constituents and come to understand how important this issue is to them and the fact that they want this government to do something about this serious issue.

Employment Insurance Fund

[Stéphan Tremblay, Bloc, Lac-Saint-Jean, QC]

Mr. Speaker, on Friday, the Minister of Finance said that the surplus in the employment insurance fund has a direct impact on the health and stability of public finances.

Will the Minister of Human Resources Development finally admit, like his colleague from Finance, that the surplus is a form of deficit insurance for the government and of poverty insurance for the unemployed?

[Pierre Pettigrew, Liberal, Minister of Human Resources Development]

Mr. Speaker, I certainly would not want to contradict my colleague, the Minister of Finance. Of course, I support his position.

What I can tell you is that, as minister—

[Jean Charest, Progressive Conservative, Sherbrooke, QC]

Yes, yes, you had no choice. We understand.