Debates of Nov. 3rd, 1997

Computer Systems

[Francine Lalonde, Bloc, Mercier, QC]

Mr. Speaker, my question is for the President of the Treasury Board.

Experts agree that passage to the year 2000 will constitute a challenge for business and government alike, since all computer systems will run into the same problem, which will hamper all government operations, including the issuance of cheques.

Given the serious threats posed by the arrival of the year 2000 to all computer systems, could the President of the Treasury Board assure us that the government is prepared to meet its obligations, including that of issuing cheques and pension cheques in particular?

[Marcel Massé, Liberal, President of the Treasury Board and Minister responsible for Infrastructure]

Mr. Speaker, we are very aware of the problem the arrival of the year 2000 represents for our computer systems.

I have already provided the House with certain details on the action we have taken, the groups looking at the situation— department by department—and the sorts of problems we are facing. We are doing what we have to so we can, among other things, issue cheques and we are continuing to do what we have to do in the various departments to come to terms with this eventuality.

[Francine Lalonde, Bloc, Mercier, QC]

Mr. Speaker, I can understand the minister's wanting to provide reassurance, but we need to know the truth.

The auditor general is very concerned. What does the President of the Treasury Board say to the auditor general, who wants departments and agencies to give very high priority to the year 2000 projects and to develop contingency plans?

[Marcel Massé, Liberal, President of the Treasury Board and Minister responsible for Infrastructure]

Mr. Speaker, we are in contact with the auditor general on this matter. He mentioned it in his latest report.

When I made my comments on the report to the auditor general, I indicated that we would consider the matter urgent. We are ensuring that all departments do likewise. We have set up a steering committee that will ensure the proper measures are taken in time.

[Odina Desrochers, Bloc, Lotbinière, QC]

My question is for the President of the Treasury Board.

Should the government fail to meet the information technology challenge of the change in millennium, millions of cheques, including pension, old age and EI benefit cheques, will not be issued.

Since Human Resources Development Canada took a long time to develop its computer system just to end up, after investing hundreds of millions of dollars in this project, deciding that the solution would be to cast the new system aside, what assurance do we have that a solution will be found by the year 2000?

[Marcel Massé, Liberal, President of the Treasury Board and Minister responsible for Infrastructure]

Mr. Speaker, the problems my hon. colleagues refer to are real problems that concern us too. That is why, once again, we have a group of experts at the data centre in charge of monitoring developments, who are currently following every lead received from the private sector and the public sector in other countries on how to deal with the problem created by the advent of the year 2000.

I can assure my colleague that we are taking all necessary steps to deal with this problem.

[Odina Desrochers, Bloc, Lotbinière, QC]

Mr. Speaker, since the year 2000 is 26 months away and that 26 months is a very short time to tackle such a computer challenge, is the President of the Treasury Board prepared to report to Parliament on a regular basis on the progress being made in this respect?

[Marcel Massé, Liberal, President of the Treasury Board and Minister responsible for Infrastructure]

Mr. Speaker, let me read into the record part of the auditor general's report where he states his views on the matter. It reads as follows:

The Secretariat has been actively raising awareness of Year 2000 across government. The interdepartmental working group set up and chaired by its project office has provided a forum for discussing views and exchanging experiences in Year 2000 work. Through its surveys, the working group, and other interdepartmental committees involving heads of information technology and deputy ministers, the Secretariat has played a meaningful role in co-ordinating—

[The Speaker]

The hon. member for Halifax.

Goods And Services Tax

[Alexa McDonough, NDP, Halifax, NS]

Mr. Speaker, my question is for the finance minister. Last week Nova Scotia's premier visited the finance minister seeking relief for the BST burden on essentials like home heating fuel.

The federal government sent the Nova Scotia premier packing empty handed even though a GST reduction would create far more jobs than any other proposed tax break.

Why will the finance minister not agree to reduce the BST on family essentials like children's clothing, home heating fuel and school supplies and at the same time increase the GST tax credit?

[Paul Martin, Liberal, Minister of Finance]

Mr. Speaker, I met with the premier of Nova Scotia last week. We had an extensive discussion dealing with a great number of issues, all of which are under continued consideration.

[Alexa McDonough, NDP, Halifax, NS]

That is progress, Mr. Speaker.

The finance minister is considering RRSP changes that would primarily benefit those earning over $75,000. Yet it is middle and lower income Canadians who have borne the brunt of his cuts to health, education and other vital services.

Before introducing more tax cuts for the well off, will the minister get in sync with Canadians, remove the GST now on family essentials like children's clothing, school supplies and home heating fuel, and grant GST tax relief to those who need it most?

[Paul Martin, Liberal, Minister of Finance]

Mr. Speaker, I am not quite sure I know what planet the leader of the NDP is on.

In terms of RRSPs the changes we have brought in such as the unlimited carryback are a clear benefit to low and to medium income Canadians.

At the same time the member should take a look at other tax changes from my colleague in human resources, the child tax benefit and the changes we have brought in for students, for parents who are saving for their students' education, and the changes we have brought in for the physically disabled.

That is precisely what we have done. I do not know where the leader of the NDP has been but it is clearly not in North America.

National Defence

[David Price, Progressive Conservative, Compton—Stanstead, QC]

Mr. Speaker, in France, in Great Britain and in the United States, there is an inspector general for the armed forces.

An inspector general was required in the case of the Somalia inquiry. Our party's electoral platform includes the appointment of an inspector general. There have been reports showing that drugs were used in a top secret military base and that there was another cover-up by the Department of National Defence.

In view of these facts, why does Canada not appoint an inspector general for the armed forces?

[Art Eggleton, Liberal, Minister of National Defence]

Mr. Speaker, we will have all of those functions in the changes that are being made in the Canadian forces. We will have a chief of review services and an ombudsman. Just about anything that the Somalia inquiry suggested would come under the role of the inspector general comes under the role of those two people, or one of the other mechanisms, such as the grievance board and the national investigative services of the military police as well. There are all of these with civilian oversight as well to ensure that Canadians are getting the proper information about a job being done.

[David Price, Progressive Conservative, Compton—Stanstead, QC]

Mr. Speaker, last week at the defence committee I put forward a motion to hear from the three Somalia commissioners to speak on chapter 44 of their report, “A Need for a Vigilant Parliament”.

There were reports this weekend of drug use at a top military base and a bungled investigation. Canadians deserve a military that is proud, effective and capable. Canadians deserve a military that is accountable to the people.

I ask again, when will the inspector general be a part of Canada's defence team?

[Art Eggleton, Liberal, Minister of National Defence]

Mr. Speaker, I do not agree with the preamble about bungling.

Let me talk about the fact that we are going to have very substantial civilian oversight with the ombudsman and with many of the other functions that will be performed with respect to the military. Also we will have a great increase in terms of public reporting from the chief of defence staff, the judge advocate general, the provost marshal, the military police complaints commission, the ombudsman and the independent grievance board, all of which will make annual reports which will be available to Parliament for scrutiny.

Environment

[Preston Manning, Reform, Leader of the Opposition]

Mr. Speaker, we are not satisfied with the silence of the senior minister from Alberta on an issue of concern to the—

[The Speaker]

My colleagues, as a general rule in question period the question is addressed to the government. As a more specific rule, if we are going to name ministers, it should be with their administrative responsibility in mind. In question period we do not know exactly where the question is going until the question is put, but the question itself should go to the administrative responsibility of a member. I would ask all hon. members in phrasing their questions to keep that in mind.

[Preston Manning, Reform, Calgary Southwest, AB]

Mr. Speaker, I could argue that this issue has a legal dimension and therefore might come within the purview of the minister. This issue more importantly is a balancing issue. We are trying to balance interests, an economic interest and an environmental interest. We are trying to balance the interests of different provinces. This minister is in a position to represent those interests.

My question—

[The Speaker]

We are going to pass to the second question. There was no question on the first pass. We ran out of time. I would ask the hon. member for Calgary Southwest to please put his question.

[Preston Manning, Reform, Leader of the Opposition]

Mr. Speaker, let the record show that the senior minister from Alberta has nothing to say.

[Some hon. members]

Oh, oh.

[The Speaker]

The hon. member for Saint-Hyacinthe—Bagot.

Deficit Reduction

[Yvan Loubier, Bloc, Saint-Hyacinthe—Bagot, QC]

Mr. Speaker, my question is to the Minister of Finance.

Between 1993 and 1998, this government will have taken $19 billion from the employment insurance fund, $11 billion from social transfers to the provinces and $5 billion from its employees' retirement fund. However, expenditures by departments and crown corporations will have been reduced only by a little more than $2 billion.

Instead of looting pension funds, the employment insurance fund and provincial social programs, when will the Minister of Finance reduce his spending by really cleaning up his departments?