House of Commons Hansard #47 of the 36th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament's site.) The word of the day was crtc.

Topics

Privilege

10 a.m.

The Speaker

My colleagues, I am now prepared to rule on the question of privilege raised on Friday, November 28, 1997 by the hon. member for Prince George—Bulkley Valley and on Monday, December 1, 1997 by the hon. member for Markham.

The hon. member for Prince George—Bulkley Valley raised the matter of a premature disclosure and newspaper publication of part of the draft report of the Standing Committee on Finance concerning pre-budget consultations.

The hon. member for Markham also objected to the premature disclosure of the draft report and to the fact that some committee members had been denied access to the draft report until after the occurrence of the leak. The hon. member for Markham further claimed that the delay in providing him with the draft report interfered with his ability to carry out his functions as a committee member in examining the draft and preparing, if necessary, a dissenting opinion.

I thank the hon. members for bringing these matters to the attention of the House. I would also thank the other hon. members who raised points related to these questions for the Chair's consideration.

Let me begin by saying that the matter of the premature disclosure of committee documents is one which has been raised on a number of occasions in the past few weeks. The Chair has clearly set out the principle that committee matters should be raised on the floor of the House as a result of the presentation of a report from the committee concerning them.

There is a further principle related to premature disclosure of committee documents which Speaker Jerome used as the basis for a ruling given on October 22, 1975. No potential breach of in camera proceedings can be taken up without a specific allegation of misconduct directed against particular individuals.

I refer hon. members to citation 877(2) of Beauchesne's, 6th Edition, which clearly states that a complaint concerning premature publication of a committee report is incomplete without reference to the specific source responsible for the disclosure of the report. In consequence, I cannot find that this matter constitutes a prima facie breach of privilege at this time.

With respect to the issue concerning the preparation of dissenting opinions, Standing Order 108(1)(a), which gives committees the power to append dissenting or supplementary opinions, is permissive in nature. It is up to each committee to decide whether or not dissenting opinions should be appended to a report and the form that they should take. However, when a committee has taken the decision to permit the appending of such opinions, it is only reasonable that that decision should be reflected in its work plan. Any adjustments to that work plan must be made in a spirit of fairness to all members of the committee. The majority must allow reasonable time for dissenting opinions to be submitted.

Concerning the question of access to draft material by members of a committee, I once again remind members that committees are masters of their own affairs. As such they are free to order their proceedings as they see fit. At the same time, the Chair is troubled by the fact that some members may feel unable to adequately perform their parliamentary duties.

Drafts of committee documents, whether they are prepared by government members or opposition members, should always be made equally accessible to all members. I know that all members value the collegial nature of the work that is carried out by committees of this House. I remind the committee chairs that good working relations require that all members be able to present their views and contribute appropriately to the committee process.

I would like to thank the hon. members for Prince George—Bulkley Valley and Markham for having brought these matters to the attention of the House.

Government Response To PetitionsRoutine Proceedings

10:10 a.m.

Peterborough Ontario

Liberal

Peter Adams LiberalParliamentary Secretary to Leader of the Government in the House of Commons

Mr. Speaker, pursuant to Standing Order 36(8) I have the honour to table, in both official languages, the government's response to five petitions.

PetitionsRoutine Proceedings

10:10 a.m.

Liberal

Paul Szabo Liberal Mississauga South, ON

Mr. Speaker, pursuant to Standing Order 36, I am pleased to present a petition from a number of Canadians, including some from my riding of Mississauga South.

The petitioners would like to bring to the attention of the House that managing the family home and caring for preschool children is an honourable profession which has not been recognized for its value to our society.

The petitioners also agree with the National Forum on Health in its section on investing that the Income Tax Act does not take into account the real cost of raising children when one provides direct parental care in the home.

The petitioners therefore pray and call upon Parliament to pursue tax initiatives that will eliminate this tax discrimination against families who provide direct parental care to their children in the home.

PetitionsRoutine Proceedings

10:10 a.m.

Reform

Monte Solberg Reform Medicine Hat, AB

Mr. Speaker, I rise pursuant to Standing Order 36 to present a petition on behalf of people in the riding of Medicine Hat.

People are very concerned that the government is funding groups to consider the removal of section 43 of the Criminal Code. Therefore, the petitioners request Parliament to affirm the duty of parents to responsibly raise their children according to their own conscience and beliefs and to retain section 43 in Canada's Criminal Code as it is currently worded.

Questions On The Order PaperRoutine Proceedings

December 9th, 1997 / 10:10 a.m.

Peterborough Ontario

Liberal

Peter Adams LiberalParliamentary Secretary to Leader of the Government in the House of Commons

Mr. Speaker, I ask that all questions be allowed to stand.

Questions On The Order PaperRoutine Proceedings

10:10 a.m.

The Acting Speaker (Mr. McClelland)

Is it agreed?

Questions On The Order PaperRoutine Proceedings

10:10 a.m.

Some hon. members

Agreed.

Ways And MeansRoutine Proceedings

10:10 a.m.

Saint Boniface Manitoba

Liberal

Ronald J. Duhamel Liberalfor the Minister of Finance

moved a ways and means motion to amend the Income Tax Act, the Income Tax Application Rules, the Bankruptcy and Insolvency Act, the Canada Pension Plan, the Children's Special Allowances Act, the Companies' Creditors Arrangement Act, the Cultural Property Export and Import Act, the Customs Act, the Customs Tariff, the Employment Insurance Act, the Excise Tax Act, the Federal-Provincial Fiscal Arrangements Act, the Income Tax Conventions Interpretation Act, the Old Age Security Act, the Tax Court of Canada Act, the Tax Rebate Discounting Act, the Unemployment Insurance Act, the Western Grain Transition Payments Act and certain acts related to the Income Tax Act, laid upon the table on Monday, December 8, be concurred in.

Ways And MeansRoutine Proceedings

10:10 a.m.

The Acting Speaker (Mr. McClelland)

Is it the pleasure of the House to adopt the motion?

Ways And MeansRoutine Proceedings

10:10 a.m.

Some hon. members

Agreed.

Ways And MeansRoutine Proceedings

10:10 a.m.

An hon. member

On division.

Ways And MeansRoutine Proceedings

10:10 a.m.

The Acting Speaker (Mr. McClelland)

I declare the motion carried.

The House proceeded to the consideration of Bill C-17, an act to amend the Telecommunications Act and the Teleglobe Canada Reorganization and Divestiture Act, as reported (with amendment) from the committee.

Telecommunications ActGovernment Orders

10:15 a.m.

Peterborough Ontario

Liberal

Peter Adams LiberalParliamentary Secretary to Leader of the Government in the House of Commons

Mr. Speaker, I believe you will find unanimous consent for an order that all questions necessary for the disposal of the report stage of Bill C-17 be put at 12 p.m. today, that any divisions requested thereon not be deferred, and that the House proceed to the third reading stage immediately after completing the report stage, and that all questions to dispose of that stage be put no later than 1.59 p.m. with any division that may be requested deferred until the conclusion of Government Orders this afternoon.

Telecommunications ActGovernment Orders

10:15 a.m.

The Acting Speaker (Mr. McClelland)

Is there unanimous consent?

Telecommunications ActGovernment Orders

10:15 a.m.

Some hon. members

Agreed.

Telecommunications ActGovernment Orders

10:15 a.m.

Bloc

Francine Lalonde Bloc Mercier, QC

Mr. Speaker, I have a point of order. At this stage of the report, I tabled two amendments that were not approved by the Chair and I would like to make my case before the House. One of these amendments concerns clause 1 and the other concerns clause 8.

I wanted to include a definition of “basic telecommunications services”, as this expression is used for the first time in the Telecommunications Act. There is a definition of “telecommunications services” but not of “basic telecommunications services”. This new expression appears for the first time in Bill C-17.

I wanted to amend clause 8 to include a definition, specifying that this definition also applies to the telecommunications services required by any person who wishes to participate fully in Canadian society. This is not adding anything new to the objectives of the Telecommunications Act as stated in section 7 of the act.

I respectfully submit that my amendments should be accepted as they are required because there is no definition of what constitutes basic telecommunications services and the intent underlying my amendments is in keeping with the objectives of the policy stated in section 7 of the Telecommunications Act.

Telecommunications ActGovernment Orders

10:20 a.m.

The Acting Speaker (Mr. McClelland)

For the benefit of hon. members who may not be aware, in a situation such as this the Chair makes a ruling based on whether a motion changes or introduces a new aspect to the legislation.

After consideration with table officers and carefully looking at it, the last three lines which state that it shall ensure that the definition covers the telecommunications services needed by any person who wishes to participate fully in Canadian society do in fact broaden the legislation beyond the scope that was initially considered.

Therefore the Chair rules that the motion is not in order.

Telecommunications ActGovernment Orders

10:20 a.m.

Bloc

René Laurin Bloc Joliette, QC

Mr. Speaker, I rise on a point of order. The motion included two parts. The first one asked that the expression “basic telecommunications services” be defined. I would be surprised if the House said it is not interested in finding out what “basic services” means. I do not think it is the case.

The first part could at least be deemed to be in order, and I would ask for the consent of the House to at least accept that first part, so as to have a definition of what is meant by basic services.

Telecommunications ActGovernment Orders

10:20 a.m.

The Acting Speaker (Mr. McClelland)

That was the basis of our conversation. The suggestion of a definition is appropriate. It is the amplification of what the definition should be that the Chair had difficulty with.

If you will give me just a moment, I will confer with table officers and make sure that we do this correctly.

Telecommunications ActGovernment Orders

10:25 a.m.

Reform

John Williams Reform St. Albert, AB

Mr. Speaker, on a point of order, I draw your attention to Standing Order 10:

The Speaker shall preserve order and decorum—. No Debate shall be permitted on any such decision, and no such decision shall be subject to an appeal to the House.

I am wondering why we are debating a ruling that you have already given.

Telecommunications ActGovernment Orders

10:25 a.m.

The Acting Speaker (Mr. McClelland)

The reason we are debating a ruling that has already been made is that in the opinion of the Chair it is the appropriate thing to do.

As a point of clarification for hon. members, the member for Mercier presented a notice of motion which was done legitimately, the way it should be done. The Chair had difficulty with one aspect of the motion.

If the member for Mercier is prepared to remove item (c), then with the concurrence of the House the Chair would be prepared to accept the motion as amended.

Telecommunications ActGovernment Orders

10:25 a.m.

Liberal

Bob Kilger Liberal Stormont—Dundas, ON

Mr. Speaker, it has been our experience at one time or another that to negotiate some of these items across the floor of the House without all the pertinent information is rather difficult to say the least.

However, in the spirit of co-operation that already exists on this bill, and I know that an order has already been accepted in terms of putting limitations on the time of debate at report stage, I wonder if there might be a willingness if it is deemed possible by the Chair to resume the debate at report stage. And while we have some resources and officials from the department we could look at the matter raised by the hon. member for Mercier and see if in fact there is a possibility of raising the matter she raised in the first motion which has not been deemed acceptable at this time.

We will put whatever resources we have out disposal forward and see if there is room to accept the motion being put forward. I wonder if we should not pursue the debate. We are actually taking up some very valuable time on the matter while we are negotiating across the floor of the House.

Telecommunications ActGovernment Orders

10:25 a.m.

Bloc

Francine Lalonde Bloc Mercier, QC

Mr. Speaker, I am prepared to remove the third item in the amendment to clause 8 if it is going to facilitate the debate. We could then proceed with Motion No. 1. I agree to remove the third item in the second motion.

Telecommunications ActGovernment Orders

10:25 a.m.

The Acting Speaker (Mr. McClelland)

The chief government whip has offered to the House a very effective means of doing what we need to do and to make sure all members are aware of the exactly what is going on. If the hon. member for Mercier would make available to other parties the amended version, in concert with the chief government whip, we will get into debate and then revisit this at the appropriate time.