Debates of Sept. 26th, 1997

Canada Post Corporation

[Lawrence MacAulay, Liberal, Minister of Labour]

Mr. Speaker, under part I of the Canada Labour Code I have the authority to appoint a conciliation officer. I did. He worked with union and management in order to try to bring about a settlement. He was not able to bring about a settlement. He has reported to me and I will be making a statement on or before October 7.

[Jocelyne Girard-Bujold, Bloc, Jonquière, QC]

Mr. Speaker, in view of what the minister just said, will he pledge to take other measures to improve negotiations and make them successful?

[Lawrence MacAulay, Liberal, Minister of Labour]

Mr. Speaker, the Canada Labour Code has worked well for both management and labour in this country over the years. I have to evaluate the information that I have and make a decision as to what is best for Canada Post and for CUPW. When I do that I will issue a statement on or before October 7, as I indicated.

Canadian Wheat Board

[Jay Hill, Reform, Prince George—Peace River, BC]

Mr. Speaker, my question is for the minister responsible for the Canadian Wheat Board, or shall I say the compulsory wheat board. Rather than his monopolistic all or nothing exclusion and inclusion clauses, why does Bill C-4 introduced by the government in this House yesterday not provide western Canadian grain farmers with real freedom of choice in how they market their very own wheat and barley?

[Gerry Byrne, Liberal, Parliamentary Secretary to Minister of Natural Resources]

Mr. Speaker, this is my first opportunity as the parliamentary secretary to the minister responsible for the Canadian Wheat Board to address the very very important question raised by the hon. member. It speaks exactly to the heart of the bill.

What the minister and this legislation have proposed for the first time in a very long time has come from farmers themselves, from producers. Farmers and producers themselves will have a direct role in the management of that agency and they will control their destiny. That is the democratic process and I think it is a very good piece of legislation.

[Jay Hill, Reform, Prince George—Peace River, BC]

Mr. Speaker, I am glad the parliamentary secretary had the opportunity to speak. I only wish he would answer the question. Looking at the bill it is certainly highly questionable whether the board of directors will ever be able to make the Canadian Wheat Board voluntary.

In addition to CSIS, another government agency not held accountable under access to information is the Canadian Wheat Board. Can the hon. parliamentary secretary explain how the new board of directors themselves will be held accountable to the farmers who elect them when they will not be able to tell them anything about the top secret Canadian Wheat Board operations?

[Gerry Byrne, Liberal, Parliamentary Secretary to Minister of Natural Resources]

Mr. Speaker, what we are discussing here is a principle of democracy. The hon. member should understand that under the current legislation which is before the House of Commons today, clearly two-thirds or 10 out of 15 members of the board of directors will come from producers.

If the hon. member does not understand a thing about democracy, perhaps he should be talking directly to some of the farmers. I will quote a farmer, Mr. John Rowett, “It is more grassroots. You know, the producers are the guys who really know what is good for producers, right?” Perhaps what the hon. member—

Telecommunications

[Caroline St-Hilaire, Bloc, Longueuil, QC]

Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Minister of Industry.

The government has forced the CRTC to issue satellite broadcasting licences to all companies applying for them, regardless of their solvency. Now AlphaStar has gone bankrupt, leaving 6,000 customers stranded without service and stuck with totally useless equipment.

Given his responsibilities in this matter, does the minister intend to take action to compensate them and to finally regulate this sector?

[John Manley, Liberal, Minister of Industry]

Mr. Speaker, I congratulate the new member on her question.

I will respond by saying that we did not tell the CRTC it must issue licences to any and all companies wishing one. We simply indicated that it was unsatisfactory to a government wishing for competition in a very important sector to have the CRTC decide how many companies could compete in it. However, All applicanats are required to submit a viable business plan to the CRTC.

Housing

[Carolyn Bennett, Liberal, St. Paul's, ON]

Mr. Speaker, my question is for the minister responsible for Canada Mortgage and Housing Corporation.

The statements by the Ontario government about the proposed changes to the administration of co-operative and other social housing is causing extreme concern for those residents. What assurance can the minister give these residents that the future of co-operative and other social housing will remain secure?

[Alfonso Gagliano, Liberal, Minister of Public Works and Government Services]

Mr. Speaker, on September 2 the Ontario advisory committee on housing reform reported to the minister of housing in Ontario. We are waiting for the position of the Ontario government. Until we know the position of the Ontario government there will be no further negotiations.

Canadian Pension Plan

[Rob Anders, Reform, Calgary West, AB]

Mr. Speaker, taxpayers would wind up paying 9.9 percent of their salary as a result of the Canada pension plan as proposed by the Liberals.

A taxpayer living until 75 would collect a maximum of $8,800 per year for a grand total of $88,000. In contrast, members of Parliament only have 9.5 percent of their paycheque go toward the gold plated pensions.

If the minister of heritage had lost her election and lived until 75, she would have collected $2.8 million. How will she continue to justify gouging taxpayers?

[Paul Martin, Liberal, Minister of Finance]

Mr. Speaker, the Reform Party obviously does not like the Canada pension plan. Its members made it very clear that they would see it destroyed.

The question that I would simply ask is what would the Reform Party replace the Canada pension plan with? What they have presented so far, their super RRSP would bring in a rate of 13 percent, roughly 4 percent and 5 percent higher than the premiums that we have agreed to with the provinces, including I might point out the province of Alberta.

[Rob Anders, Reform, Calgary West, AB]

Mr. Speaker, somehow I knew they would justify gouging taxpayers. They put themselves on a pedestal above taxpayers who pay the CPP, just like the leader of the fifth party who is looking forward to a pension of more than $4.2 million, just like the Minister of Justice who is looking forward to more than $1.5 million. Brian Tobin, the former Liberal fisheries minister and the premier of Newfoundland is currently receiving $3.8 million.

Will they at least allow those members of Parliament who want to opt out of the super rich gold plated pension plan the opportunity to do so?

[Paul Martin, Liberal, Minister of Finance]

Mr. Speaker, the member should get his facts straight. First of all those numbers that the member has just quoted are garbage. Second of all why does he not deal with the real numbers? Why is he afraid to stand up here and explain to the Canadian people that if 9.9 is a gouge, then what is 13 percent which his party has talked about?

In this House when it came time to debate the MP pensions, the Reform Party's solution was to increase MP salaries to $150,000 a year. Why does he not stand up and say that?

[Lorne Nystrom, NDP, Qu'Appelle, SK]

Mr. Speaker, my question is also to the Minister of Finance.

Yesterday the minister moved in the direction of privatizing the administration of the Canada pension plan through the creation of a fund of $100 billion to be managed by his friends on Bay Street, those boys in red suspenders.

In light of that, I want to ask the minister today whether he can at least ensure us that he will not change the rules where at least 80 percent of the pension money must be invested here in Canada.

[Paul Martin, Liberal, Minister of Finance]

Mr. Speaker, that is in the bill exactly as the hon. member has said. Perhaps before asking the question he might want to read it.

What we have said very clearly is that there may be at some future time the intention to change that rule, but it is not the government's intention to do so now.

What is important to understand is the position of the NDP. Is the hon. member saying that he is against an independent investment board? Is the hon. member saying that he is against the Canada pension plan achieving a higher rate of return than has been—

[The Speaker]

The hon. member for Qu'Appelle.

[Lorne Nystrom, NDP, Qu'Appelle, SK]

Mr. Speaker, what the member is for is for the minister to answer a question for once in the House.

In light of the decision reached yesterday with respect to the bill to freeze the annual CPP exemption at $3,500 a year, and the fact that it will hit low income earners, women and the disabled of this country very hard, can he explain why he wants to shift the burden onto low income people? Why is he playing Robin Hood in reverse in this country?

[Paul Martin, Liberal, Minister of Finance]

Mr. Speaker, there are two ways to destroy the Canada pension plan. One is the way the Reform Party has brought forth, which is to do so openly. The second way is the NDP's way, which is to say “Do not change it, do not deal with the problems and let it crumble under its own weight”.

If the NDP wants to destroy the Canada pension plan, why is it not being honest about it?

Free Trade Agreement

[André Harvey, Progressive Conservative, Chicoutimi, QC]

Mr. Speaker, perhaps I may first thank my constituents for giving me this chance to come back to the Parliament of Canada to work on their behalf.

My question is directed to the Prime Minister. Throughout the past week, this government has been criticizing the former government. Considering that the free trade agreements helped us increase our exports to U.S. markets from $90 billion to $215 billion, an increase of nearly 140 per cent, would the Prime Minister tell us whether he has changed his mind on this issue?

[Jean Chrétien, Liberal, Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, during the 1993 election campaign, we said we wanted to improve the free trade agreement, and we improved it in areas including the environment, labour and other sectors as well. That was part of our program.

We were not against free trade as such, but we felt that the agreement as negotiated needed improvement. We were successful in that respect. I am pleased the system is working well.

I am also delighted to see the hon. member back in the House, and I wish him the best of luck.

[André Harvey, Progressive Conservative, Chicoutimi, QC]

Mr. Speaker, would the Prime Minister confirm that the changes made in the free trade agreement were very marginal ones?

Is he prepared to tell this House and all Canadians that the free trade agreement was a very progressive measure and a very important one for all Canadians and explain why he came out so vehemently against the free trade agreement in a number of advertising campaigns that were extremely damaging for the future of our country's trade?

[Jean Chrétien, Liberal, Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, regarding the debate during the 1988 election campaign, that was the only campaign since 1963 in which I did not run.

When I became Leader of the Liberal Party, we reviewed the policy and we adjusted it. We found that improvements were necessary. In the days following my election in November 1993, we had talks with the American and Mexican governments. We obtained improvements, and subsequently the government signed an agreement that works very well, thanks to the improvements we made to the agreement in general, and that was my party's policy during the election campaign in 1993.

Environment

[Susan Whelan, Liberal, Essex, ON]

Mr. Speaker, the citizens of Windsor and Essex county raised concerns about not getting timely and accurate warnings of severe weather conditions.

Following the meeting my Windsor colleagues and I had with the Minister of the Environment, can the minister tell us what action she will be taking concerning severe weather operations in southwestern Ontario and in particular Windsor and Essex county?