Debates of Oct. 23rd, 1998

Health Care

[Jim Peterson, Liberal, Secretary of State (International Financial Institutions)]

Mr. Speaker, I am very glad this question was asked. Both the finance minister and the Prime Minister have made it very clear that health care in Canada is one of the priorities that will be considered at the time of the next budget. We look forward to the support of the opposition for the measures that we bring forth.

[Jocelyne Girard-Bujold, Bloc, Jonquière, QC]

Mr. Speaker, we are not talking about the next budget; we are talking about taking action today, with today's surpluses, to care for the sick today.

Can the Minister of Health give us the assurance that any federal reinvestment in health will be done through transfer payments and not through new high visibility programs such as the millennium scholarship fund?

[Jim Peterson, Liberal, Secretary of State (International Financial Institutions)]

Mr. Speaker, I would like to accept the hon. member's suggestions but, as I just mentioned, health care for all Canadians is a priority of this government, and we will address the situation in the next budget, as is our custom.

I should point out to the hon. member that we have already increased transfers to the provinces for health care by $1.5 billion.

Apec Inquiry

[Art Hanger, Reform, Calgary Northeast, AB]

Mr. Speaker, I assure the Deputy Prime Minister that the Reform Party has no confidence in how this commission is operating or in the government's interference into that commission's work.

According to the solicitor general, the RCMP will take the fall for the APEC fiasco. Now the commission chairman states the same thing, that the RCMP will take the fall for the APEC fiasco.

Canadians, on the other hand, know better. The blame lies at the Prime Minister's feet—

[The Acting Speaker (Mr. McClelland)]

The Deputy Prime Minister.

[Herb Gray, Liberal, Deputy Prime Minister]

I am sorry, Mr. Speaker. I had not realized that the hon. member had actually asked a question.

I want to say that the government has not interfered in the work of the commission; just the opposite. We have tried to ensure in our comments in the House that the independence of the commission is recognized, especially by the opposition parties.

While the hon. member has no confidence in the government, his colleagues on his behalf have expressed that confidence by asking the very government he criticizes to set up another commission of inquiry.

[Howard Hilstrom, Reform, Selkirk—Interlake, MB]

Mr. Speaker, the Deputy Prime Minister says that we are not listening to his answers over here. He says that the government has no control over this independent public complaints commission. His government appointed these people to the commission. If they are not doing their job, if they are prejudiced, it is up to him to get rid of these people and set up another inquiry.

The next commission will be headed by a judge and a judge cannot be fired once he is appointed. That is a person we want to have on the inquiry.

Will you now commit to bringing us an inquiry that is independent, headed by a judge of the Superior Court of Canada?

[The Acting Speaker (Mr. McClelland)]

I ask members to direct their questions through the Chair.

[Herb Gray, Liberal, Deputy Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, the hon. member has tied himself up in such a pretzel type twisting arrangement of knots it is hard to see the sense in his question.

I want to say that on the one hand the hon. member wants political interference in the public complaints commission. The people are appointed for a term. They are at arm's length from the government. Yet he wants another commission set up and, whoever is on it, the length of the life of that commission would be set by the government.

The hon. member as I said has turned himself, through his question, into a human pretzel.

Icebreaking On St. Lawrence

[René Canuel, Bloc, Matapédia—Matane, QC]

Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Minister of Fisheries and Oceans.

The minister wants to charge ships using the St. Lawrence River for 80% of icebreaking fees when they are responsible for only 50% of the total costs of commercial icebreaking. Does the minister realize that he will be making private shipping on the St. Lawrence pay for its maritime competitors?

[David Anderson, Liberal, Minister of Fisheries and Oceans]

Mr. Speaker, what we are attempting to do is to have those using icebreaking services pay 17.5% of the cost. That is not a lot to ask.

Let us not forget that transport ships must travel through the waters off Newfoundland to reach the St. Lawrence River. Obviously, it is fair that the ships themselves must pay the fees, up to a maximum of 17.5%.

[René Canuel, Bloc, Matapédia—Matane, QC]

Mr. Speaker, he thinks it is fair to make them pay 80% when the normal rate should be 50%.

The shipping industry agrees with recovering 17% of costs. Is the minister aware that the unequal distribution of the bill among regions is completely unfair to Quebec?

[David Anderson, Liberal, Minister of Fisheries and Oceans]

Mr. Speaker, I told the member that we want the people and businesses using the services and the shipping industry to pay only 17.5% of the cost.

The Bloc Quebecois' suggestion of an increase in rates for ships using the St. Lawrence River will mean that those travelling to the Port of Quebec City will pay dearly indeed.

Apec Inquiry

[Philip Mayfield, Reform, Cariboo—Chilcotin, BC]

Mr. Speaker, the Deputy Prime Minister says that the solicitor general has nothing to do with this public inquiry. As a former solicitor general he knows better than to say that, because the solicitor general did decide to go with the commission and not hold a full judicial inquiry where all actors in this fiasco would have their say.

Will the Prime Minister end this fiasco and strike a new independent judicial inquiry to look into this entire APEC affair, including the Prime Minister's and the solicitor general's involvement?

[Herb Gray, Liberal, Deputy Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, it is in part because I was solicitor general that I think I can speak about this matter with respect to the work of the commission on a more factual basis than the Reform member.

The solicitor general today did not set up this inquiry. The inquiry was set up by the arm's length permanent independent public complaints commission. It set up the inquiry. It set the terms of reference. It is up to it and not the solicitor general or the government to say how it carries out the inquiry and how long it will last. Surely this is an indication of independence that the hon. member should support instead of in an unwarranted way criticizing the—

[The Acting Speaker (Mr. McClelland)]

The hon. member for New Westminster—Coquitlam—Burnaby.

[Paul Forseth, Reform, New Westminster—Coquitlam—Burnaby, BC]

Mr. Speaker, the APEC issue is about the constitutional rights of Canadians: the right to speak out against injustice, the right not to be arrested for only political purposes, and the right to fair process before a tribunal. These things have all been suspended by the government.

Now the fix appears to be in and the commission has been adjourned to November 16. We do not know where this is going to go. We need a judicial inquiry to clean up this mess.

What will the government do to restore the constitutional rights of Canadians that it has tossed aside?

[Herb Gray, Liberal, Deputy Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, I am glad the hon. member mentioned constitutional rights.

I thought he would have added to his question praise for the Prime Minister for his work in establishing the charter of rights and freedoms. It is there. It is in force. It protects Canadians. The Prime Minister should be praised by the hon. member when he asks his questions for his work in establishing, protecting, maintaining and upholding that very charter of rights.

Program For Older Workers Adjustment

[Maurice Dumas, Bloc, Argenteuil—Papineau, QC]

Mr. Speaker, the answer the Minister of Human Resources Development gave yesterday to my question on POWA was totally unacceptable.

On the one hand, the minister claims to be concerned about the older workers who have been laid off, while on the other hand he is asking them to settle for active measures he feels are more equitable.

Will the minister admit that these active measures are inadequate, indeed totally unsuited to the realities of the labour market for older workers who have been laid off, and that they require special income support measures, to which his government committed in 1996?

[Pierre Pettigrew, Liberal, Minister of Human Resources Development]

Mr. Speaker, let us be very clear here.

First of all, it must be pointed out that the majority of older workers are holding their own very well in today's economy. The jobless rate for workers over the age of 55 has dropped from 9% to 6.3%.

It is extremely important to consider the reality that the majority of older workers are managing very well. For the others, it is clear that our government is concerned about their situation and is seeking to work with them to help them back into the work force.

Labour

[Steve Mahoney, Liberal, Mississauga West, ON]

Mr. Speaker, construction trade labour groups are anxiously awaiting the government to deliver on its commitment to implement the fair wage schedule.

On behalf of the Minister of Labour could the government House leader tell the House what is the status of this important government initiative and when it will be implemented?

[Don Boudria, Liberal, Leader of the Government in the House of Commons]

Mr. Speaker, on August 5 the Minister of Labour appointed Mr. Douglas Stanley to conduct a comprehensive review of this issue. We expect to receive Mr. Stanley's finding and recommendations shortly, possibly as early as next week.

Once we receive these recommendations my colleague, the Minister of Labour, intends to act as expeditiously as he always does.

Apec Inquiry

[Derrek Konrad, Reform, Prince Albert, SK]

Mr. Speaker, we just heard a few moments ago that the chair of the public complaints commission denied the allegation against him and he is staying on as chair. We also heard that they are adjourning the commission meetings until November 16.

Justice delayed is justice denied. When will the government bring forth justice for these people and establish an independent judicial inquiry? Will the government do it right away, now?

[Herb Gray, Liberal, Deputy Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, I think a correction should be made. I have just been told that it is not the chair of the public complaints commission. It is the chair of the panel who has denied categorically the allegations made against him.

I have also been told that the issues arising out of the allegations according to the chair of the panel, Mr. Morin, will be referred to the federal court. The panel has been recessed until November 16.

I have just had this information conveyed to me. It is public information as the hon. member has in part conveyed to the House. I have not had a chance to—

[The Acting Speaker (Mr. McClelland)]

The hon. member for Wanuskewin.