Debates of Oct. 6th, 1998

Apec Summit

[Peter MacKay, Progressive Conservative, Pictou—Antigonish—Guysborough, NS]

Mr. Speaker, do Canadians have to wait for the solicitor general's next flight home for straight answers on this issue?

The Prime Minister has spent weeks hiding from Canadians on APEC. He hid behind his spin doctors who attacked APEC witnesses. He hid behind the solicitor general who will not talk about this issue in the House, but loves to talk about it on Air Canada. Now the Prime Minister's human shield, the solicitor general, is a human sieve.

Will the Prime Minister himself answer questions on this issue and demand the solicitor general's resignation?

[Jean Chrétien, Liberal, Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, we have an inquiry going on. Evidently they are not interested to know what happened. They just want to have something to attack the government on. They might be suffering the problem of scandal envy because there has not been a big problem in this government for the last five years.

I am telling the House that we want to know exactly what happened between the students and the police. We are very anxious for the commission to find out and tell everyone what happened on that afternoon.

Trade

[John Maloney, Liberal, Erie—Lincoln, ON]

Mr. Speaker, the U.S. congress has delayed new restrictions on border crossings until October 15. The new rules could strangle movement and cripple international trade and tourism.

Can the Minister of Foreign Affairs tell Canadians what they might expect crossing the Canada-U.S. border later this month?

[Lloyd Axworthy, Liberal, Minister of Foreign Affairs]

Mr. Speaker, I am pleased to report that we have made significant progress on delaying the implementation of the bill on the immigration service so that they will not implement after October 1. More important, the senate and house leaders in the United States congress have agreed to a 30 month delay in any implementation. I am very confident we will get a permanent delay in the implementation of the bill.

Apec Summit

[Chuck Strahl, Reform, Fraser Valley, BC]

Mr. Speaker, the solicitor general has tried to explain away his actions, saying that he has a letter from a friend that makes it all okay. Mr. Speaker, you will excuse us if we do not think that explains anything away.

The public complaints commissioner this morning said that the actions of the solicitor general have broken the trust Canadians have in this commission. Does the solicitor general not see that he should resign until such time as the commission has done its work? Can he not see that?

[Andy Scott, Liberal, Solicitor General of Canada]

Mr. Speaker, if I can correct the hon. member, the chair was referring to the allegations which I have denied and I stand here and deny them once again.

Employment Insurance

[Bernard Bigras, Bloc, Rosemont, QC]

Mr. Speaker, yesterday the Minister of Human Resources Development said the following about the millions of young people who pay into EI and are not entitled to draw benefits: “The ones without employment insurance coverage were perhaps people who ought not to have been covered from the start”.

Is this what the Minister of Human Resources Development's youth employment strategy is all about, telling young people they are not entitled to receive benefits but are required, on the other hand, to make contributions starting with the very first hour they work? That is my question.

[Pierre Pettigrew, Liberal, Minister of Human Resources Development]

Mr. Speaker, what I have been trying to get across to the Bloc Quebecois from the word go is that one is doing young people a disservice if one makes the employment insurance system readily accessible to them. If it is too easy to get employment insurance, this is an invitation to drop out of school.

What our government wants to do is to encourage young people to stay in school. When they want to make the transition to the work force, we have a youth employment strategy to help them to do so. That is what we want, not youth unemployment.

Apec Summit

[Svend Robinson, NDP, Burnaby—Douglas, BC]

Mr. Speaker, my question is for the solicitor general to test his deep commitment to the RCMP Public Complaints Commission.

Yesterday the commission agreed to once again strongly urge the federal government to provide legal funds for the student complainants at the APEC hearings. At the same time the federal government has hired yet another high-priced lawyer, David Scott, to its team.

In view of the minister's constant urging to let the commission do its work, will he now listen to the commissioners, to the federal court, to his own Liberal colleague from the UBC area and extend full legal funding to the student complainants at the APEC hearing?

[Andy Scott, Liberal, Solicitor General of Canada]

Mr. Speaker, I await the letter and I would advise the member that we increased the amount of money available to the PCC for this inquiry by $650,000.

Fisheries

[Mark Muise, Progressive Conservative, West Nova, NS]

Mr. Speaker, for months now I have been sending a steady stream of letters to the Minister of Fisheries and Oceans outlining the seriousness of the illegal lobster fishery particularly in St. Mary's Bay. Thousands of pounds of illegal lobster are caught daily, threatening the livelihood of registered commercial fisherman.

Can the minister explain why his department has not committed greater resources toward putting an end to this illegal practice? Are his hands tied by the lack of existing legislation to address the native food fishery? If so, when can we expect such legislation to be introduced?

[David Anderson, Liberal, Minister of Fisheries and Oceans]

Mr. Speaker, I thank the hon. member for his question.

In fact on September 17 the Halifax Chronicle Herald reported that an operation with 45 officers and one dog seized 1,000 pounds of lobster, $10,000, arrested seven people and seized five vehicles. We are continuing with that type of enforcement throughout.

I should add for his information that we are hiring 48 new enforcement officers this year, another 48 next year and we are beefing up enforcement of fisheries infractions in his own area.

Housing

[Janko Peric, Liberal, Cambridge, ON]

Mr. Speaker, my question is for the minister responsible for Canada Mortgage and Housing Corporation.

Constituents in my riding continue to express grave concerns about the downloading of federal housing programs to the government of Mike Harris. What assurances can the minister give that federally administered co-ops will be maintained by CMHC in Ontario?

[Alfonso Gagliano, Liberal, Minister of Public Works and Government Services]

Mr. Speaker, first of all I am pleased to announce that five provinces and two territories have already signed agreements to transfer the administration of social housing.

This new agreement contains a specific clause that protects the existing agreement. Therefore all the existing agreements will be protected in this agreement.

The hon. member knows that 50% of the co-op housing in Ontario is administered and financed by the province. Therefore it is a system that needs to be discussed in order to avoid duplication.

Apec Summit

[Grant McNally, Reform, Dewdney—Alouette, BC]

Mr. Speaker, here is what we have heard today. We have heard the solicitor general tell two different stories. We have heard about his friend who admits he has known him for 15 years, and the solicitor general says he did not know who he was.

It is clear that no matter what he intended through this letter the impression given by what has happened is that he has compromised the integrity of the PCC. In summary, I ask when this will minister resign.

[Andy Scott, Liberal, Solicitor General of Canada]

Mr. Speaker, I feel very strongly about the issue of civilian oversight. I have said that for the last few weeks. I will defend that process here and I will defend it against the hearsay that is coming from across the floor.

The Late Leonard Jones

[Claudette Bradshaw, Liberal, Moncton, NB]

Mr. Speaker, it looks like a very long time to me now, but in June this summer I began my career with the Boys and Girls Club. Len Jones at the time was the mayor of Moncton. I have known Mr. Jones for a long time. He was a member of the board of directors of the East End Boys' Club when I was working for the Moncton Boys and Girls Club.

After working in the Boys and Girls Club for six years I started the head start program. In those days a lot of politicians said to me that I would not get the support of the community for the children because they were two to five years of age. They were too young. They were not breaking windows and the community would not support me if I started such a program. I went to different agencies and they said the same.

However, two politicians said to me “Claudette, go for it”. Len Jones was one of them. When we started we were in a small house. We did not have any money. Never did I do anything with the head start program without Len Jones being there.

Another thing that shows who Len Jones was was when his daughter Helen went out west. As a community we were shocked that Len Jones would leave the city of Moncton. We said that he would never leave because he had given his life to the city as mayor and as a member of parliament.

I remember my discussion with him. He said “You know, Claudette, I am a family man. I have always believed in what you have done for children. My daughter is going out west and she would like us to move with her”. He and his wife moved out west to be with their daughter.

Len Jones was there for children. He also believed that every child in the school system should learn to speak French from grade 1 up to grade 12. He advocated that.

He was always there for me with the head start program. He always believed in prevention. I would like to say to his family that being in the House of Commons I often think of Len Jones. He had hard battles to win sometimes. Running as an independent was not easy for him, but he stood for what he believed in. If I were to say one thing about Len Jones, it is that he was a man of character.

I thank the House for the chance to speak about Mr. Jones. Like I said, he was always there for children in the Moncton area.

[Gurmant Grewal, Reform, Surrey Central, BC]

Mr. Speaker, on behalf of the Reform Party of Canada and Her Majesty's Official Opposition I rise to pay tribute to Mr. Leonard Jones.

Mr. Jones, a World War II veteran, lawyer and former mayor of Moncton, served as Canada's first elected independent member of parliament from 1974 to 1979. He will always be remembered as a man who stood by his convictions and who never shied away from confrontation. He was another Canadian who bravely battled cancer.

I have learned that his great passions were law and politics. He was a formidable opponent in the courtroom. Mr. Jones was Moncton's longest serving mayor. He was first elected as a councillor in 1957 and only lost one election in his political career that spanned more than two decades. Mr. Jones supported Moncton's head start program for children. He is survived by his wife and long time law partner, his daughter and his sister.

On behalf of all Reform Party members of parliament I extend Mr. Jones' family our very sincere condolences. Mr. Jones will be missed by all who had the privilege of knowing him.

[Bill Blaikie, NDP, Winnipeg—Transcona, MB]

Mr. Speaker, on behalf of my colleagues I too would like to rise in my place to honour the memory of Mr. Leonard Jones who served in the Chamber.

Leonard Jones was known to those of us who did not know him personally as a somewhat controversial figure. The member who first spoke showed us a little something about politics that Canadians often miss: often members of parliament or other public persons who come to be associated with particular controversies suffer from having their full humanity hidden in the caricature that sometimes comes from the controversies.

It moved me to hear that Mr. Jones was involved in the Boys and Girls Club and that he had a reputation for being very concerned about the young people of Moncton. That just goes to show us that we ought not to allow our memories and our perceptions of people to be clouded by particular controversies.

I join with others in honouring the work that Mr. Jones did in Moncton, his service to his country in time of war, his commitment to his principles, and his long service in many respects to Canada.

[Gerald Keddy, Progressive Conservative, South Shore, NS]

Mr. Speaker, I note the words of the member for Moncton. As the House marks the passing of Leonard Jones, we in the Progressive Conservative caucus send our condolences to the Jones family.

It is perhaps appropriate to note that political differences are left behind when one faces the ultimate mysteries of mortality. In this place, which has seen radical differences and dramatic reconciliation over the years, we mark the passing of one who fought for what he believed.

The Late Donald Munro

[David Anderson, Liberal, Minister of Fisheries and Oceans]

Mr. Speaker, today I rise in the House to pay tribute to a former member who died recently at the age of 82.

Mr. Donald Munro was a very distinguished Canadian who served his country both in the diplomatic service and in the House. I knew Don well as he was the candidate who was successful in the election which followed my resignation from my seat in Esquimalt—Saanich back in 1972 when I took on the leadership of the provincial Liberal Party.

Born in Regina, Don was always a very proud westerner. He moved to Vancouver to finish his education and became a teacher before he was granted a scholarship to the Sorbonne in Paris by the French government.

As was common for young men of the day, he quickly signed up with the armed forces at the outbreak of war, joining the Royal Canadian Air Force in 1940 and serving as a navigator and later as an instructor.

After the war he finished his education by completing his masters in political science at the University of Toronto before joining the external affairs department in 1946.

His postings included Paris, Ankara, Dublin, Brussels and Beirut. His postings were as numerous as his interests. He served as head of the Canadian delegation in Vientiane, Laos. Following a year with the National Defence College in Kingston, Don was named ambassador to Costa Rica in 1967. He was responsible for the neighbouring countries of Nicaragua, Honduras, El Salvador and Panama. He served with distinguishment, retiring from diplomatic service in 1972.

Never one to sidestep a challenge, Don sought and won the Progressive Conservative candidacy in the Esquimalt—Saanich riding and won in the election of 1972 by a wide margin. The voters of that constituency obviously thought highly of him and regarded him as an effective representative because he was elected three more times in 1974, 1979 and 1980 before retiring from politics in 1984.

Don Munro was an outstanding Canadian who always acted as a great spokesman for the people he represented. We extend our condolences to his wife Lynn and his two stepchildren.

[Bill Casey, Progressive Conservative, Cumberland—Colchester, NS]

Mr. Speaker, in rising to mark the passing of Donald Munro I first want to express the sympathy of the members of the Progressive Conservative caucus to Mrs. Munro and her family on their loss.

Donald was elected to represent the Vancouver Island constituency of Esquimalt—Saanich as a Progressive Conservative MP in the general election of 1972 and was successfully re-elected until his retirement in 1984.

His service to the people of Canada in the House of Commons was but another chapter in the life of public service. During World War II he served as an officer in the Royal Canadian Air Force. Following the war he joined the Department of External Affairs and served Canada in a number of diplomatic posts, including Laos and a number of countries in Central America.

All that was but a prelude to his membership in the House of Commons where he applied his lifetime of professional experience and put forward his views with skill and candour.

In commemorating the passing of Donald Munro, we recognize not only one who shared with us the elections of the House but a man who gave his entire adult life to the service of his country and his fellow Canadians. He was an example to remember, and I thank the House for the opportunity to commend him.

[Keith Martin, Reform, Esquimalt—Juan de Fuca, BC]

Mr. Speaker, on behalf of the Reform Party I would like to commemorate the passing of Donald Munro, a former Canadian ambassador and member of parliament for the then riding of Esquimalt—Saanich, in his home at the age of 82 this past summer.

Mr. Munro was elected in 1972 under the Tory banner and re-elected in 1974, 1979 and 1980. Born in Regina, he went to school in Vancouver, graduating in 1939. As the war broke out he, being a man of with a strong sense of duty and conviction, decided to enrol in the RCAF and finished the war as a flight lieutenant.

In 1946 he joined the external affairs department and was posted to Paris, Ankara, Dublin, Brussels, Beirut and Laos. In 1967 he was made ambassador to Costa Rica, Nicaragua, Honduras, El Salvador and Panama. He then became the diplomat in residence at Dalhousie University. Don Munro, a man with a strong sense of conviction and duty, served his country.

He then went to parliament to do the right thing and on numerous occasions took up positions that were perhaps politically incorrect at the time but were positions which he felt his constituents supported. A man of courage and principles, Don Munro fought for the people, he fought to do the right thing and he fought to make sure the people of the west were represented well here in Ottawa.

I first met Don in 1991 after making some speeches on foreign affairs in Victoria. Although he was retired at the time, he asked some pointed and constructive questions on international relations. He was still very much involved and very interested in the larger world around him, as well as his community. Throughout his career Mr. Munro fought hard for those constituents and he fought for Canada. Testimony to this is the fact that he was re-elected three times to the riding of Esquimalt—Saanich.

Mr. Munro leaves his wife Lynn and their two stepchildren, the people of Esquimalt—Juan de Fuca and Saanich. All the people of Victoria owe a huge debt of gratitude to Donald Munro and his family for the many years of service he gave not only to the people of British Columbia but also to Canadians at large. The likes of him do not come this way very often. On behalf of the Reform Party I extend our deepest condolences to his family.

[Pierre De Savoye, Bloc, Portneuf, QC]

Mr. Speaker, the Bloc Quebecois would like to join other parties in paying tribute to the former member for Esquimalt—Saanich, Donald Munro, who died in July at the age of 82.

First elected in 1972, Mr. Munro was a member of the House of Commons for 12 years. He began his career in 1939 as a teacher. During World War II he served as a navigator and instructor in the Canadian Air Force. After studying political science at university, he was hired by the Department of External Affairs in 1946, where he enjoyed a busy diplomatic career, as my colleagues in the House pointed out a few minutes ago.

I did not have the pleasure of knowing Mr. Munro, but what I have read tells me that he was an MP whose goal was to serve his constituents to the best of his ability.

On behalf of my Bloc Quebecois colleagues, I offer our respectful condolences to Mr. Munro's friends and family.

[Bill Blaikie, NDP, Winnipeg—Transcona, MB]

Mr. Speaker, I rise on behalf of the NDP caucus to pay tribute to the memory of Mr. Donald Munro.

I remember Don Munro personally. He was in the House of Commons in 1979 when I was first elected. We sat together in this Chamber for five years. I remember him as an older member of parliament at that time, as I was one of the younger members. I remember the courtesy he extended to new members, in particular to younger members.

He was a person of strong views and strong convictions. At the time he was one of the few Tory backbenchers from western Canada who was bilingual. Because of his diplomatic career and his education he was able to communicate in both official languages in this House.

I remember him as someone who we would all do well to honour at this time for his service during the war and for his outstanding public career. On behalf of the NDP I extend our sincere condolences to his family.