Debates of Oct. 8th, 1998

Apec Summit

[Herb Gray, Liberal, Deputy Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, I do not accept the premise of the hon. member's question regarding the way the hon. solicitor general has carried out his duties. He is a fine minister and he deserves the support of all members of this House.

[Charlie Penson, Reform, Peace River, AB]

Mr. Speaker, the solicitor general has lost the confidence of this House. He has lost the confidence of Canadians. He should be gone today, not in the next cabinet shuffle. If fingering your employees will not do it, if jeopardizing ongoing investigations will not do it, what will do it? How low does the bar have to go, Mr. Prime Minister?

[The Speaker]

I remind members to please address your questions to the Chair.

[Andy Scott, Liberal, Solicitor General of Canada]

Mr. Speaker, this line of questioning is based on a despicable tactic of eavesdropping. The results of that exercise have been discredited in fact. I would not want to think that Canadians would see this government making decisions based on that kind of inaccurate information.

[Bill Blaikie, NDP, Winnipeg—Transcona, MB]

Mr. Speaker, in his notes the member for Palliser wrote that the solicitor general said he was going to have an international college of correctional studies built in Fredericton. Yet an aide to the minister said that could not be because the only site that was being considered was Kingston. Now we have the premier of New Brunswick, Mr. Thériault, saying that he discussed this several times with the solicitor general and credited the solicitor general with working hard on the file.

Is the premier of New Brunswick fabricating a story, or do we now know very clearly where the fabrication is coming from?

[The Speaker]

Colleagues, yesterday I permitted the word fabricated or fabrication to be used in the House but I would much prefer that you do not use that word in this question period. I am going to allow the solicitor general to answer the question, but I do not want the word fabricated used.

[Andy Scott, Liberal, Solicitor General of Canada]

Mr. Speaker, once again as I said earlier, the story that was put forward by the hon. member for Palliser was drawn from snippets of words coming across the aircraft. As a consequence the hon. member has mentioned the facility. Unfortunately he got the location wrong and there was another different project that I have been working on in the province with the premier and that is the basis of the mistake.

[Bill Blaikie, NDP, Winnipeg—Transcona, MB]

Mr. Speaker, there comes a time in these kinds of affairs when a cabinet minister knows that he is a liability to the process no matter what he believes to be true about himself. The minister has arrived at that point. Whatever he believes about himself he should see clearly that he is now a liability to the process going on in Vancouver and he should do the right thing and resign.

[Andy Scott, Liberal, Solicitor General of Canada]

Mr. Speaker, I have more respect for fundamental justice than to do that.

[Peter MacKay, Progressive Conservative, Pictou—Antigonish—Guysborough, NS]

Mr. Speaker, in 1996 the Prime Minister accepted the resignation of the member for Don Valley East when he breached the government's supposed ethical standards.

Yesterday the solicitor general admitted to discussing the location for the centre for correctional justice, a cabinet decision that could lead to a commercial advantage to insider information from the solicitor general.

Will the Prime Minister please explain why the member for Don Valley East lost his cabinet position and the solicitor general keeps his? Why the double standard?

[Herb Gray, Liberal, Deputy Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, there is no double standard here except in the hon. member's own mind.

[Peter MacKay, Progressive Conservative, Pictou—Antigonish—Guysborough, NS]

Mr. Speaker, there are double standards around here lately.

The solicitor general needs to be one of the most discreet and security conscious members of the cabinet, as does the Minister of Justice. He needs to be trusted by our police, our intelligence, agents and our allies. In one conversation the solicitor general destroyed that trust. He spoke of APEC, Frank Moores and a pork barrel project in his riding. He cannot separate the private from the public.

This is inappropriate behaviour on his part. It is a firing offence. When will the solicitor general resign?

[Andy Scott, Liberal, Solicitor General of Canada]

Mr. Speaker, serious allegations were made. I stood in the House. I responded to those allegations. They were inaccurate. I established that the gentleman whom I was speaking with substantiated that those allegations were inaccurate.

I do not feel any obligation to discuss a private conversation that has nothing inappropriate with regard to my job, that was overheard on an aircraft by an eavesdropper.

Foreign Affairs

[Sarkis Assadourian, Liberal, Brampton Centre, ON]

Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Minister of Foreign Affairs.

In light of the rising tension between Turkey and Syria, would the minister explain to the House what diplomatic efforts Canada is making to defuse the increasingly dangerous situation that could have lasting implications for peace in the Middle East and Asia Minor?

[Julian Reed, Liberal, Parliamentary Secretary to Minister of Foreign Affairs]

Mr. Speaker, I apologize to the member as I could not understand the beginning of his question. Mr. Speaker, would you allow the member to repeat the question?

[Some hon. members]

Oh, oh.

[The Speaker]

Order, please. The hon. member for Calgary Northeast.

Apec Summit

[Art Hanger, Reform, Calgary Northeast, AB]

Mr. Speaker, I believe I missed the punchline on that last commercial from that side.

I have a question for the top police officer in the country, the chief administrator of law enforcement. I want to check the facts on this letter.

Mr. Toole's letter does not corroborate the solicitor general's story. The letter is very carefully and legally crafted by a lawyer to say nothing.

My question for the solicitor general is, is he calling the member for Palliser a liar?

[Some hon. members]

Oh, oh.

[The Speaker]

The question as it is put is in order.

[Andy Scott, Liberal, Solicitor General of Canada]

Mr. Speaker, unlike my hon. colleague from Palliser, I would never question someone's honesty. I am simply questioning the accuracy of his hearing.

[Francine Lalonde, Bloc, Mercier, QC]

Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Solicitor General.

In the light of all these events, will the Solicitor General not now acknowledge that it is time to bow out, with dignity?

[Andy Scott, Liberal, Solicitor General of Canada]

Mr. Speaker, no.

[Bill Blaikie, NDP, Winnipeg—Transcona, MB]

Mr. Speaker, my question is for the solicitor general.

I have heard the solicitor general say many times in this place that he really believes in the process, he believes in the commission, he cares about that commission and its process. I ask him now does he not see that regardless of what he thinks about the matter, he now has a duty to absent himself from this in the name of the work of the commission and the confidence that Canadian people have to have in that process?

[Andy Scott, Liberal, Solicitor General of Canada]

Mr. Speaker, I believe profoundly in fundamental justice. I think it is being convoluted in this place to impugn my integrity. In the name of my integrity, I remain the Solicitor General of Canada.