Mr. Speaker, I am pleased today to be in the House once again to talk about aboriginal affairs, particularly where they come into play in Manitoba.
Selkirk—Interlake is located in the centre of Manitoba. It borders and includes the very lake we are discussing today, Lake Winnipeg, which flows north into the Nelson and Churchill river system and ultimately ends up in the Hudson Bay.
If I could reiterate a bit, Bill C-56 deals with a settlement of matters arising from the flooding of land on the Norway House Indian Reserve and on other reserves. It is with respect to the establishment of certain reserves, the adding of land to land currently held. The land which was flooded belonged to the Norway House Indian Band and would ultimately have become their land under treaty entitlements.
All Manitobans, myself included, have benefited greatly through the actions of the Government of Manitoba and its crown corporation, Manitoba Hydro. Native people in Manitoba have also benefited greatly in that we now have hydro going into most reserves.
Some members from Manitoba, including the member for Provencher, seem to indicate they are experts on Manitoba natives. I agree that no doubt the member has some knowledge. However, like the member from Winnipeg Centre, they do not have all-encompassing knowledge of what is going on in reserves. They could have had historical references for the last six to ten years when the Reform Party talked about accountability.
I will deal with the bill in two parts. The first part will be with regard to the flooding of land and the second will be with regard to some accountability issues.
The Norway House band land which was flooded was excellent trapping land. It was land they had occupied for thousands of years. They should be compensated for that land. There is absolutely no problem with that on my part. I encourage the provincial and federal governments along with the aboriginal people as they proceed to compensate for the damage.
The parties to my right, my left and opposite seem to want to isolate aboriginal affairs into a stand alone situation. We share this land together. Our national boundaries are well known from coast to coast to coast. We and the aboriginal people share this common land.
For just a minute I would like to show that is the case. Organizations on Lake Winnipeg in my riding have had some spill over effect from the flooding. The organizations of which I speak are the Lake Winnipeg Property Owners' Association and a lady by the name of Lorraine Sigvaldason who is important in that organization, along with Baldur Nelson and Mr. Nelson Gerrard of the Bifrost Lakeshore Homeowners Coalition. Nowadays the lake is at a high level in order to accommodate the generation of hydro. All Manitobans are sharing in the benefits and the losses associated with major hydro electric developments.
Some problems experienced in the south end are with respect to ongoing excessive and rapid erosion of land, physical loss of highly assessed residential property, permanent destruction of prime sandy beaches, rapid deepening of the inshore lake bottom, devaluation of prime real estate, destruction of wildlife habitat, hazards to marine activity in the form of floating and submerged debris, and severe financial losses and burdens for lakeshore residents. They suggest some solutions. This is a concern that has been around my riding and the province of Manitoba for some time.
Aboriginal people live along this lake that is affected by the flooding, including the Norway House band and the organizations I have spoken of, say the problem has to be acknowledged and addressed in an honest fashion. Lake level regulation must take into account actual water levels rather than statistically altered and wind eliminated or monthly average levels.
Their request to various levels of governments has been that those who have suffered losses deserve compensation whether such losses were the direct result of an act of God as in the flood in the Red River Valley or the acts of government and hydro.
Issues dealing with aboriginals have to be thought of in the context of dealing with all Canadians. That is what seems to be missing in some of the debates on the particular bill as it is with many other bills.
With regard to solutions on Lake Winnipeg, Mr. Wilfred L. Arnason suggested that additional causeways near Hecla Island, a narrow opening between the north basin and the south basin of Lake Winnipeg, could be spanned by additional bridges accommodating the inflows of all rivers, creeks and ditches entering the south basin. The idea that there would be an additional flow of water out of the south into the north basin would help to provide a solution with regard to erosion problems.
I am not privy to all the details of how the $78.9 million in cash and hydro bonds with regard to how compensation for the Norway House band was arrived at, but if the Manitoba government, the federal government and the aboriginal people agreed to that it would seem to be fair. I could support that on my part. The moneys owed under the agreement are not payable to the crown as Indian moneys but as moneys to be held by the minister in trust. I will deal with that in a moment.
I certainly agree with the creation of a resource co-management board with Manitoba. Co-management of resources is exactly what I have been talking about. It will be a good aspect of the agreement. As I have noted in past speeches, the ability of an aboriginal first nation to pass laws in conflict with federal laws, in other words the aboriginal law supersedes, is not in the best interests of Canada, of all Canadians or of our living together.
As a result when I see the terms co-management and working hand in hand, the people of Manitoba both aboriginal and non-aboriginal working hand in hand, that is exactly the way it is supposed to be. That is what I am attempting to promote as the member of parliament representing Selkirk—Interlake and, I might add, representing all Manitobans. I have been involved in various accountability issues with the first nations people where people from all parts of the province and most of the aboriginal first nations approached me with their problems, concerns and their solutions.
I mentioned that this money was to go to the first nations people to be administered in trust. This is where the member from Winnipeg Centre said that the Reform Party was—he did not say crying wolf—trying to take a few little incidents and make them into some kind of statement that all chiefs and councils are either crooked or mismanaging funds.
Earlier in my speech I said that members opposite, along with the members to my right, have not kept an eye on what happened in terms of the northern flood agreement which included about six other bands. I would like to refer to what happened when the Nelson House band was paid several million dollars from the federal government. It went into a Winnipeg account and through a lawyer. I will not repeat the exact amount of money that was to go to the band. A non-aboriginal consultant and the ex-chief of the Nelson House band were involved in handling the moneys.
It is well known in the House and back in Manitoba that I was a member of the commercial crime section of the Royal Canadian Mounted Police. We received a complaint with regard to how those moneys in trust were handled. We conducted an investigation. I will not take credit for doing the whole investigation because I had some able assistance from other members of the Royal Canadian Mounted Police. We laid charges of misappropriation of that money which was held in trust, the big guarantee, the guarantee that is referred to in the agreement, the money in trust. Many thousands of dollars were taken contrary to the trust agreement. We ended up in a court case that went on for some time and that chief was convicted of stealing the moneys held in trust.
I hear members talk in the House about the Reform Party making up stories about possible problems. I am telling the House and all members that the problems are real. The white consultant still had some assets which we were able to seize under proceeds of crime legislation and ultimately have forfeited to the crown. He passed away before the case went to court so I will not mention his name.
Just as we have seen in many thousands of cases across the country, when people receive something in trust such as moneys or other goods like lands or whatever it cannot be automatically assumed that with the fiduciary responsibility, the trust responsibility, they will handle the moneys in a manner according to the trust conditions, in this case for the native peoples of that reserve. I have told members how the trust agreement did not protect the moneys of the Nelson House band.
Over the years I went through RCMP investigations, many times with aboriginal reserve complaints from people who felt that moneys were being mismanaged. There was no way, due to a number of different factors, of ever laying charges or having a solution through the criminal courts. We laid charges in this one case, the Nelson House case, with regard to northern flood agreement moneys.
I ended up retiring from the RCMP and in politics which is why I am standing here today. Once again I have a responsibility to the people of Manitoba and my constituency to speak out on behalf of constituents in my riding. Many people on reserves in my riding have come to me and said there was an accountability problem on their reserves. Not only did they have a lot of problems with social conditions and lack of housing. They could not find out where in the heck the money coming into the reserve was going. They saw some people doing very well on the reserve, primarily at the elected level, but they needed answers. They needed to find out what was going on.
When members opposite and the community at large in Canada see reports in the paper of Reform speaking out about these issues, we are speaking out on behalf of people who do not have a voice to speak out on their own. These are the non-elected people. Many of them are women and young people who are not in the aboriginal electoral process. They are not elected officials and are not in non-aboriginal government offices. That is why my colleagues and I speak out so strongly on this matter.
Accountability should be included in these agreements. Actually it should be included for aboriginal governments at the band level because each of the bands is separate. Certain things make for accountability in government. One of the biggest accountability factors is money, and I will start with that one.
The member from Winnipeg Centre certainly tried to indicate that we were trying to scare people and to paint people with a broad brush. I hope what I have said today shows how untrue that is. I would certainly be pleased to answer questions after my speech.
I have been advocating a couple of cornerstone democratic principles since the accountability meetings were held. I will list them before finishing speaking so that they remain in everyone's mind.
On October 31 the aboriginal people of Manitoba, not the Reform Party, organized a big meeting in Winnipeg at the Airliner Inn. Before that meeting took place I stood in the House and told all members about it. It is in Hansard . I told them October 31 was the date of the meeting and that all were invited. It was organized and run by the aboriginal people.
One outside politician came. It was not the member for Provencher. It was not the member for Saint Boniface. It was not the member from Winnipeg Centre. It was the Indian affairs minister David Newman from the province of Manitoba government. He attended the meeting and spoke for at least half an hour about all the serious issues dealing with financial funds and problems with aboriginal leadership and what could be done about it.
From all these meetings I have four basic cornerstones of democracy that would help provide accountability for the chiefs and councils. The first one is absolute, independent, fair election laws to ensure that elections of the chiefs are fair and true.
The second is an independent auditor general. That is the one that would provide for accountability of the financial funds. There is no reason the leadership of the aboriginal people in Canada and the federal government could not already have set up some kind of independent auditor general to take care of moneys that are for the benefit of aboriginals on our reserves.
