I as well.
In 1992 with the Charlottetown Accord we moved to a point in this discussion that we have never been able to get to before. We actually had a proposal for a triple E Senate. We actually had the agreement of all the provinces that the Senate would be equal, 6-6-6; 62 members. We made provisions for aboriginal representation. It was something that I think many people who are seized with this issue would never believe we would get to, but we got there. What did the Reform Party do? The Reform Party had a proposal for an equal, effective and democratically elected Senate. It opposed it. It fought against it. In the end it was voted down.
The Meech Lake accord failed, so the process that was used under that failed along with it. It was rejected. I supported the Charlottetown accord for those very principles. I think a triple E Senate is a very good thing, particularly for western Canada.
Now we are into this debate that sort of capitalizes on people's desire to make fun of the Senate or to continue to denigrate a group of people who I think do marvellous work on behalf of Canada and put forward what they say is an important improvement. I am astounded, frankly, that the Reform Party would support this bill or even think of proposing it.
The two provinces the Reform Party is most populous in, Alberta and British Columbia, represent 23% of the population. They have 11.5% of the Senate seats. The Reform Party is proposing that we enshrine that, that we give that inequality legitimacy. I do not understand why it would want to make legitimate a process that contains a real inequality for the west. There seems to be no particular advantage to be gained from that. It is true that the Senate needs reform but if we want to have a democracy, a democratically elected Senate, the member himself said part of the functioning of a democracy is at the end of the term that we are elected for we go back and stand in front of the people again and ask for a renewed mandate. A one time election of a senator into a position until he or she is 75 does not allow for any ability to go back in front of the people. On the issue of how the rest of the Senate functions, we have a few who are elected democratically and a few who are living out their terms in the Senate. How does this lead to a competent, functioning, well organized approach to improving democracy?
I support the goal. The goal is laudable. But the approach taken by the Reform Party to produce a reform of the Senate is simply too glib and I think somewhat misses the point.
If we want a Senate that gives true balance to the disproportional rep by pop that we have in this House, one that becomes a true house for the regions or the provinces, which I would like to see it become, surely we need to reform the entire institution.
It is too complex an organization to play around with one little item, to change one or two facets of it. We need to sit down and reform the Senate. We need to do it in the way we have been trying to solve all the problems we face right now, piece by piece, looking at the problem, coming together with the provinces, with our partners, having the discussions, arriving at a consensus and acting on that consensus. That is the way we will get to true constitutional change.
That is the way, working through and carefully solving problems one at a time, we have managed to get from the very difficult financial circumstances we were in when we came to government in 1993 to today. That is a process I hope all members would support. But to jump into this debate to change one small facet of this I suspect makes the problem worse, not better.
I support the member in his desire to continue this debate on the reform of the Senate. I certainly will be among members of the House who will spend a lot of time and energy attempting to produce a more effective parliament for Canadians. But I cannot support this particular approach.