Debates of Feb. 16th, 1998

Reference To Supreme Court

[Jean Charest, Progressive Conservative, Sherbrooke, QC]

Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Prime Minister.

Following the questions asked by members of the Bloc Quebecois and the Reform Party, does the Prime Minister not realize that the government is playing the game of the extremists in this country?

Does the government not realize that if the Supreme Court must make a decision, it will tell us what we already know, namely that no one can provide a definite answer should the country separate?

Does the Prime Minister not recognize that it would be better to propose a plan A, that is a plan acceptable to those who want a consensus on change, including as regards Canada's economic and social union?

[Jean Chrétien, Liberal, Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, we did not want to just roll the dice. We prefer to deal with one issue at a time. I just listed the issues that we managed to settle.

One thing is clear in my mind: If one wants to become prime minister of the country, one should pledge to ensure compliance with the law of the land.

[Jean Charest, Progressive Conservative, Sherbrooke, QC]

Mr. Speaker, the Prime Minister is in a bad position to give anyone a lesson about rolling the dice after what he did in the 1995 referendum, after he said to Canadians in the 1995 referendum that everything was fine. As a result he almost lost the country. Has he not learned anything from that referendum?

Quebeckers and Canadians want the country to work. They do not want the extremes of the Reform Party. They do not want the extremes of the Bloc. They want a solution which makes the country work, not a recipe on how to break it up.

[Jean Chrétien, Liberal, Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, I think the first thing is that someone who believes in Canada does not vote with those who want to break Canada up.

[Some hon. members]

Hear, hear.

[Jean Chrétien, Liberal, Saint-Maurice, QC]

I would like to say to the leader of the Conservative Party that when we campaigned in the referendum we had a joint program that was signed by me and by him. If he wants to give me some responsibility, he should be honourable enough to take some responsibility too.

The Budget

[Monte Solberg, Reform, Medicine Hat, AB]

Mr. Speaker, last spring the finance minister had his wrists slapped by the auditor general when he cooked the books to the tune of about $800 million, contrary to the stated accounting policies of the Government of Canada. Now we hear he is at it again with the $3 billion memorial fund to the Prime Minister.

Will the finance minister assure Canadians he has learned his lesson and will not be loading the spending of future year into the upcoming 1998-99 budget?

[Paul Martin, Liberal, Minister of Finance]

Mr. Speaker, when we took office in 1993 one thing we found was that in fact a number of commitments which had been taken by the previous government had not been booked in the statements of account. As a result the deficit was in fact larger than the Canadian people understood it to be.

We took the decision at that point that we would always book any obligations of the Government of Canada so that Canadians could see them up front and they would not be hidden.

That is the process we followed in this case and we will continue to follow it.

[Monte Solberg, Reform, Medicine Hat, AB]

Mr. Speaker, it sounds more like the Bre-X approach to me. The fact is the auditor general chided the government for not following its own policies with respect to accounting.

My question is again for the finance minister who was very evasive the last time. Will he assure Canadians that he will not make that surplus disappear before we get it by hiding future spending in this year's budget?

[Paul Martin, Liberal, Minister of Finance]

Mr. Speaker, we have made it very clear that the government will operate in an open and transparent way.

We simply do not believe that when somebody goes out for dinner they should leave it for somebody else to pick up the cheque.

Reference To Supreme Court

[Pierre Brien, Bloc, Témiscamingue, QC]

Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Prime Minister.

In August 1987, Yves Fortier, now the federal government's counsel in the reference to the Supreme Court, stated in connection with the Constitution of 1982: “Politically, and I would go so far as to say morally, the Constitution Act, 1982, does not apply to Quebec”.

Is the Prime Minister aware that his spokesperson, the government's lawyer, that same Yves Fortier, is today saying precisely the opposite of what he was saying in August 1987?

[Stéphane Dion, Liberal, President of the Queen's Privy Council for Canada and Minister of Intergovernmental Affairs]

Mr. Speaker, I do not know why the Bloc Quebecois is again asking a question I answered last week.

At any rate, Mr. Fortier is now pleading his case before the court. The court is listening to his case, and that is where the situation stands as of today.

[Pierre Brien, Bloc, Témiscamingue, QC]

Mr. Speaker, when he stated that the 1982 Constitution did not apply politically or morally to Quebec, Mr. Fortier added that “those who claim otherwise are guilty of constitutional heresy”.

Can the Prime Minister tell us what credibility people can assign to this masquerade when there are such contradictions coming from the very person currently defending the position of the federal government?

[Stéphane Dion, Liberal, President of the Queen's Privy Council for Canada and Minister of Intergovernmental Affairs]

Mr. Speaker, for the response to that question, I would refer the Bloc Quebecois to the record of last week's question period.

The Budget

[Jason Kenney, Reform, Calgary Southeast, AB]

Mr. Speaker, a recent national poll shows that nearly two-thirds of Canadians believe the government should make deficits illegal from now on.

Close to three Quebeckers out of four want the government to pass balanced budget legislation.

When is the finance minister going to protect Canadians against future excessive spending through balanced budget legislation?

[Paul Martin, Liberal, Minister of Finance]

Mr. Speaker, there is no problem, since the government wants to avoid any future deficit.

The problem is with the Reform Party asking for huge exemptions. Such exemptions would invalidate the act.

[Jason Kenney, Reform, Calgary Southeast, AB]

Mr. Speaker, five out of ten provinces have balanced budget laws and all of those provinces have balanced budgets. Eighty-five per cent of Canadians in the same poll say they think the federal government is big enough today and should not get any bigger.

The Minister of Finance is preparing with his spendaholic colleagues to increase the size of government with new Ottawa style, big government programs.

Why is the minister ready to make government bigger in this budget when Canadians want it to become smaller?

[Paul Martin, Liberal, Minister of Finance]

Mr. Speaker, we would far prefer to be judged by our results than by rhetoric.

I simply remind the hon. member that when we took office the deficit was $42 billion. Today the deficit is on the cusp of being eliminated. I think we will have to let Canadians judge that result.

Reference To Supreme Court

[Michel Gauthier, Bloc, Roberval, QC]

Mr. Speaker, the Minister of Intergovernmental Affairs earlier wanted to talk of the independence of the judicial process. Now we are going to be speaking about independence.

In 1992, in the referendum on the Charlottetown accord, Yves Fortier, counsel for the government, and Mr. Justice Bastarache, recently appointed by the Prime Minister to the Supreme Court, jointly chaired the yes committee, a yes that all Canadians, including Quebeckers, rejected.

Does the Prime Minister not consider, given the two are working side by side in the same political case, that this casts a shadow on the Supreme Court?

[Stéphane Dion, Liberal, President of the Queen's Privy Council for Canada and Minister of Intergovernmental Affairs]

Mr. Speaker, I will repeat the words of the former leader of the Bloc Quebecois, the Quebec premier. He said: “I consider the justices of the Supreme Court to be honest magistrates, who have at heart one of the essential values underlying the operation of a court of law, judicial independence”.

The prestige of the Supreme Court of Canada is recognized worldwide. We have no reason to think that the court will not do an honest and competent job, or lose sight of one of the values essential to a court of law: judicial independence.

[Michel Gauthier, Bloc, Roberval, QC]

Mr. Speaker, for the benefit of the minister, justice must not only be done, it must also appear to be done.

Does he not consider, given that the experts agree the questions asked by the federal government will provide the response the government is after and that, in the light of the complicity between Justice Bastarache and counsel for the government, would there not be reason to think this case has already been heard?

[Stéphane Dion, Liberal, President of the Queen's Privy Council for Canada and Minister of Intergovernmental Affairs]

Mr. Speaker, the court will give an opinion, which will be available for examination by all legal experts in Canada and around the world. I am sure that the aim of the court is to give an opinion that meets all the criteria of judicial jurisdiction.

Health

[Keith Martin, Reform, Esquimalt—Juan de Fuca, BC]

Mr. Speaker, today provincial health ministers are gathering together to determine a compensation package for victims of Hepatitis C.

Of the 90,000 people who have been infected half are dead. The provinces have already dismissed outright the offer by the federal government. What will the minister be bringing to the table tomorrow?

[Allan Rock, Liberal, Minister of Health]

Mr. Speaker, I will be joining my provincial counterparts this evening and all day tomorrow to discuss the very matter. I assure the hon. member and my colleagues on all sides of the House that we will be making our very best efforts with the provinces to find some way of dealing with the matter.

From the perspective of the victims of the tainted blood tragedy it is important that we have a co-ordinated response. We, along with our provincial counterparts, will be doing our very best to achieve that.

[Keith Martin, Reform, Esquimalt—Juan de Fuca, BC]

Mr. Speaker, I am very glad the health minister spoke about a co-ordinated approach and about his care for the victims of this terrible problem. The solutions, though, have been on the table for a long time and the government has continued to dither.

The Hepatitis C Society has put forth constructive, fair, equitable and doable solutions. Will the Minister of Health implement those solutions as soon as possible?