Debates of Feb. 3rd, 1998

The Senate

[Bill Gilmour, Reform, Nanaimo—Alberni, BC]

Mr. Speaker, I would like to revisit a statement made by our Prime Minister: “I, on the other hand, support Senate reform. If it is done properly, a restructured and revitalized upper chamber can given Albertans a voice in the governance of Canada. If elected Liberal leader, I pledge to work for a Senate that is elected, that has legislative powers of its own and contains strong representation from all regions of Canada”.

These are the words and promises of our Prime Minister spoken at the Liberal leadership convention on June 23, 1990. It would appear the Prime Minister has forgotten his pledge to work for an elected, representative Senate. Fortunately we in the official opposition are delighted to assist the Prime Minister in honouring his promise.

Ice Storm

[Nick Discepola, Liberal, Vaudreuil—Soulanges, QC]

Mr. Speaker, the recent ice storm gave the federal government an opportunity to show to the whole country the know-how of the Canadian Armed Forces.

Justifiably so, the Quebec government recognized the ceaseless co-operation between the Prime Minister and the Premier of Quebec, who both worked effectively to meet the needs of affected regions.

I must point out the excellent job done by the Canadian government. Let us also not forget all those who worked very hard and who showed great courage to make it through this most difficult period for over one million people.

The crisis will have made us realize how vulnerable we are in a society as modern as ours, and how there is strength in unity.

I also want to congratulate the 24 mayors and the municipal authorities in my riding, and particularly the hundreds of volunteers who gave time, energy and support. You are an inspiration to all of us.

[Pauline Picard, Bloc, Drummond, QC]

Mr. Speaker, the recent ice storm quickly turned into a nightmare for thousands of us.

It did however make us realize how incredibly courageous and dedicated the mayors of the affected municipalities could be. Isolated and with makeshift means, they kept their communities afloat for days on end while relief efforts were being organized.

It also gave us an opportunity to witness the extraordinary generosity of hundreds of volunteers and donors, who did all they could and spared no effort to help alleviate the effects of the crisis on the victims.

This large scale show of solidarity deserves the highest praise. On my own behalf and that of all my fellow citizens who were affected by this crisis, thank you.

[Claudette Bradshaw, Liberal, Moncton, NB]

Mr. Speaker, I rise in the House today to pay tribute to the people of the greater Moncton area for donating over 5,000 tonnes of supplies destined for St. Hubert, Quebec, a town badly hit by the devastating ice storm.

Many people in the area came together to collect these donations. They also contacted the Quebec volunteer bureau to let them know that thirty or so people from the greater Moncton area were prepared to travel to the areas affected by the storm.

I would also like to thank Radio Canada/CBC, the Times and Transcript , Geldart Warehouse and Cartage Ltd. and the Moncton Headstart for helping gather and deliver supplies to St. Hubert.

I am very proud that the people of the greater Moncton area came together to help a community in need. Private enterprise, the media, individuals and school children banded together and demonstrated the strong commitment to community that exists in our area.

Once again, thank you very much. Un gros merci à tous.

Port Moody—Coquitlam Byelection

[Chuck Strahl, Reform, Fraser Valley, BC]

Mr. Speaker, we have uncovered the top 10 reasons why the Liberals have delayed calling the byelection in Port Moody—Coquitlam.

Reason No. 10, they cannot find Port Moody—Coquitlam on the map.

Reason No. 9, they cannot even find British Columbia on the map.

Reason No. 8, they think that the tri-cities are a place where Liberals put in a token effort but they just cannot win.

Reason No. 7, the Liberal Party is $3 million in the hole and even to a Liberal a million here, a million there and pretty soon you're talking real change.

Reason No. 6, it is difficult to schedule a byelection that does not interfere with the Prime Minister's golf game.

Reason No. 5, the Liberals pinned their hopes on Anna Terrana and then mistakenly appointed her to the immigration board.

Reason No. 4, anything the fisheries minister is involved with.

Reason No. 3, current Liberal MPs realize that a byelection means they need to talk about B.C. issues.

Reason No. 2, the Liberals are unsure about how to campaign in British Columbia because they cannot be bought with their own money.

And the No. 1 reason the Liberals have delayed calling the Port Moody—Coquitlam byelection: the Liberals have not yet figured out how to tax byelections.

International Development Week

[Monique Guay, Bloc, Laurentides, QC]

Mr. Speaker, the week of February 1 to 7 has been declared International Development Week.

The Bloc Quebecois would like to take advantage of this opportunity to draw grateful attention to the exceptional contribution of the non-governmental organizations to improving the living conditions of more than 250 million people in the developing countries.

Unfortunately, the Minister of International Co-operation seems to turn a blind and indifferent eye to the extraordinary work being done by Canada's and Quebec's NGOs. In fact, the government has slashed more than $617 million from the international aid budget since 1993, thus compromising the future of a number of NGOs.

I am calling upon the government to honour its commitment to the UN to devote a minimum of 0.7% of its gross national product to assisting development, in addition to cancelling the $150 million in cuts planned for the 1998-99 fiscal year.

Ice Storm

[Mark Assad, Liberal, Gatineau, QC]

Mr. Speaker, here in the Outaouais region, while the devastation of the ice storm was no doubt less severe than in some parts of Quebec, some people still went several weeks without power.

My colleagues in the region and I would like to thank the personnel of the Canadian Armed Forces, who worked unceasingly to help all those who were hit hard by the disaster, supplying them with the equipment needed for their safety and well-being.

We would also like to draw attention to the contribution of large numbers of volunteers, who helped the municipal authorities in my riding and the neighbouring ones. Their concerted efforts are evidence of their good citizenship and generosity.

Finally, a very special thank you to all those who helped, each in his or her own way.

Goose Bay

[Wendy Lill, NDP, Dartmouth, NS]

Mr. Speaker, today is a day of mourning in Goose Bay, Labrador. Everything is shut down to bring attention to the fact that 119 workers will lose their jobs at the Canadian forces base due to a government decision to contract out non-military operations to a British firm.

Kitchen workers making $13.50 an hour have been cut to $7.50. Senior clerical workers making over $20 an hour were offered jobs as cleaners at $8 an hour.

In a community where a pound of potatoes costs $1.50, the impact of these cuts is terrifying.

The people of Goose Bay now have to reconsider their future. Fifty houses have gone up for sale in a week. Some people are in hospital suffering from stress. Low paying jobs, zero security, foreign control, fear for the future, this is the legacy facing the young people of Goose Bay. There will be more communities facing the same fate.

Is this the Liberal government's new world order?

We want the Minister of National Defence to go to Goose Bay, tear up the deal with his British buddies and start making decisions that will help communities, not destroy them.

Ice Storm

[Denis Coderre, Liberal, Bourassa, QC]

Mr. Speaker, the use the Bloc is making of the ice storm is scandalous. Clearly, the Bloc has some political catching up to do and it is trying deliberately to score political points on the back of workers.

Either the Bloc does not know what it is talking about or it is putting on an act with the obvious aim of muddling everyone up in the matter of compensation to storm victims who were without work for a number of days.

The conduct of the Government of Canada and the Minister of Human Resources Development in the matter is beyond reproach. We have put resources at Quebec's disposal which were appreciated by both the people in the regions affected and by the Government of Quebec. And the premier himself, Lucien Bouchard, noted the excellent co-operation between the two levels of government.

Consequently, rather than make political hay on the backs of the victims, rather than be nothing more than a vulgar source of propaganda for the mother house in Quebec City in a sad and blatant preprovincial election strategy, the Bloc should acknowledge and pay tribute to the extraordinary contribution of the people and the Government of Canada.

The Late Senator Gerald Ottenheimer

[Norman E. Doyle, Progressive Conservative, St. John's East, NL]

Mr. Speaker, I rise today to pay tribute to the late Senator Gerald Ottenheimer, a proud Newfoundlander and a great Canadian.

In 1966 a Cambridge educated young lawyer named Gerald Ottenheimer was one of three PCs elected to the Newfoundland House of Assembly during the Joey Smallwood electoral sweep. He went on to become party leader. He later served with distinction in the cabinets of Premiers Frank Moores and Brian Peckford. He served as Speaker of the Newfoundland House of Assembly. He was elected Chairman of the Commonwealth Parliamentary Association and was a member of the Francophone Parliamentary Association.

Appointed to the Senate of Canada in January of 1988, Gerry went on to become Deputy Speaker of the Senate. Unfortunately he succumbed to cancer in January of this year.

My colleagues, the hon. members for Burin—St. George's and St. John's West, and I who served with him in cabinet salute the late Gerry Ottenheimer, scholar, lawyer, linguistic and, above all, a parliamentarian who will be sadly missed.

Ice Storm

[Ian Murray, Liberal, Lanark—Carleton, ON]

Mr. Speaker, the great ice storm of 1998 affected millions of Canadians in eastern Ontario and Quebec. For many of us it was an inconvenience that demonstrated how greatly we rely on electricity just to function in our homes. For others it meant real hardship and, tragically, in some cases death.

Any time human beings are faced with a major crisis we learn something about ourselves. As someone who witnessed firsthand the reaction of people in the communities of my riding of Lanark—Carleton, I can assure everyone that Canadians do care about their neighbours.

While images of devastation will remain with me, I will, more important, remember the selfless actions of people who rallied to help those whose health, property and even lives were threatened.

Before the Canadian armed forces arrived and before we knew the extent of the emergency, volunteer firefighters in every community, on their own initiative, swung into action.

Mayors, reeves and councillors from each municipality reacted swiftly.

The devastated townships around Carleton Place, Smiths Falls and Perth will long remember how those small towns came to their aid.

We all owe a great debt to the soldiers—over 800 in Lanark County alone—who demonstrated why Canadians can be justly proud of our armed forces.

It will take years before the physical damage caused by the storm is repaired.

[The Speaker]

Colleagues, before we begin question period today I would like to draw your attention to the Mace on the table. I made a brief announcement this morning. It is the wooden Mace which commemorates the fire of 1916 on this date, February 3. This is part of the traditions of the House.

We will now go to question period.

The Economy

[Preston Manning, Reform, Leader of the Opposition]

Mr. Speaker, if only we could light a fire under this government.

Yesterday the prime minister tried to ignore the fact of the federal debt. Unfortunately Canadian families cannot ignore the debt. A third of their taxes go to pay the interest on it. In addition to the mortgages on their homes every Canadian family is carrying a second $77,000 mortgage which represents their portion of this government's debt.

Will the prime minister please tell Canadians when and how he plans to pay down this Martin mortgage.

[Jean Chrétien, Liberal, Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, last year for the first time in a very long time the government paid back $1 billion or $2 billion of the debt. This was the first time in a long time in the history of market debt. This year when the Minister of Finance communicates his budget to the Canadian people, they will realize that this year the government will pay more of the market debt.

As I said yesterday, the leader of the Reform Party has changed his position many times. Sometimes it is tax reduction, sometimes the debt. We had a clear position in our program.

[Preston Manning, Reform, Leader of the Opposition]

Mr. Speaker, if that statement had been made by the chairman of a public company the prime minister would be sued. This government is paying down market debt by borrowing from the federal public service superannuation fund and from the Canada pension plan. It is paying off its Visa card charges with its Mastercard.

Does the prime minister believe that paying off your Visa card charges with your Mastercard is a responsible federal debt reduction strategy?

[Jean Chrétien, Liberal, Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, in national accounting there is the national account and there is the public account. We are one of only two nations in the world that have all the contingent liabilities included in the government's debt system. We are the only ones.

On national accounts we had a surplus last year. Even the provincial governments do not include contingent liabilities in their debts. Only the federal government is doing that.

[Preston Manning, Reform, Leader of the Opposition]

Mr. Speaker, the lights may be on in Montreal but they are not yet on in the government benches.

The prime minister ignores the need to reduce the debt. He also ignores the need to reduce high taxes. This government starts taxing Canadians when they make $6,500 a year. The Americans do not even start until you make $9,500. Our top tax rate cuts in when people make $60,000 a year. The American top rate does not cut in until you make $270,000.

Why does this Liberal government tax poor and middle income Canadians more harshly than even the Americans do?

[Jean Chrétien, Liberal, Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, there is one reality. In the United States if you are a blue collar worker with two children you have to pay $5,000 to an insurance company for your health care. In Canada it is paid for by the Government of Canada.

[Monte Solberg, Reform, Medicine Hat, AB]

Mr. Speaker, the industry department has confirmed what Canadians have long suspected. They are worse off than when the Liberals came to power. We know that incomes are down, taxes are up. We know that productivity is down. Debt is up. We are falling behind in our standard of living relative to other countries around the world.

My question is for the finance minister. When will the government admit that its policy of spending more, of high debt and of high taxes is causing Canadians tremendous difficulty? When will it set some real targets for debt and tax relief?

[Paul Martin, Liberal, Minister of Finance]

Mr. Speaker, the study the hon. member refers to is a study that found its antecedence in the policies of the previous government.

What the hon. member wants to take a look at is pretty clear. Four years ago the country had its back against the wall. Now we are talking about paying down debt.

Four years ago the country was talking about how high the taxes were going to go, and now we are talking about how low they are going to go.

Four years ago the country was in a state of despair, and now there is optimism throughout the land. That is because of this government.

[Monte Solberg, Reform, Medicine Hat, AB]

Mr. Speaker, the fact is that Canada's per capita income has fallen from third in the world to twelfth in the world in the last decade. It has fallen behind such economic powerhouses as Iceland, which is built on the side of a volcano.

It is not good. It is time for the government over there to wake up. Canadians are feeling tremendous pain and the government is somehow consoling itself with the fact that we have a balanced budget on the backs of Canadians.

My question is again for the finance minister. When will they start to reduce debt and reduce taxes in real terms? When will they start to help Canadians?

[Paul Martin, Liberal, Minister of Finance]

Mr. Speaker, in previous budgets we already began to reduce taxes. Let me say let us not engage ourselves in the kind of shell game the Reform would play.

The Reform Party at the federal level says “Let us cut taxes”. How would it do that? It would be by cutting equalization payments.

What is the answer? The member for Selkirk said “Let the province of Manitoba increase its taxes to compensate”. That is a shell game. It is dishonest and we will not do it.

Quebec's Future

[Gilles Duceppe, Bloc, Laurier—Sainte-Marie, QC]

Mr. Speaker, the Liberal Party of Quebec has just adopted the position of Claude Ryan, the former leader of the No camp in 1980, and is stating beyond any doubt that the question of Quebec's future is a political, not a legal, one.

Does the Prime Minister understand that the trap he has set up to force the Supreme Court, in spite of itself, to rule on the question of Quebec's future is an unacceptable strategy, and that he must backtrack immediately?

[Jean Chrétien, Liberal, Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, we are convinced, and have said so repeatedly, that democracy works very well within a respected legal framework. It is the Parti Quebecois that said it would respect the Constitution only when it suited it to do so.

In a democracy, the Constitution is the principal law of the land. But if he wants to quote Mr. Ryan, I would point out to him that that gentleman also said that the question would have to be a clear one, acceptable to the federal and provincial governments. I would like the member to tell us whether he thinks they will agree to a debate on the question here in the Parliament of Canada.

[Gilles Duceppe, Bloc, Laurier—Sainte-Marie, QC]

Mr. Speaker, the Prime Minister should have listened to all of what Mr. Ryan said. Mr. Ryan specifically said that it is not up to the court to impose its conditions on the government, that governments must assume their responsibilities, and that, in politics and in a democracy, it is ultimately up to the people to decide. It is not up to judges appointed by Ottawa to decide for the people of Quebec.

And federalists working in Quebec, who are responsible people, democrats, think that the federal government's approach is unacceptable and that it will result in an impasse.

Does the Prime Minister realize that he is in the process of cutting himself off completely from Quebec, even from his main allies?