Debates of March 23rd, 1998

Fisheries

[John Duncan, Reform, Vancouver Island North, BC]

Mr. Speaker, those are the very reports the committee has been denied. The federal government is continuing to approve foreign fishing in Canadian waters on the basis that these are fish in surplus of Canada's needs.

Meanwhile, there are unemployed fishermen and plant workers in Atlantic Canada. No other country declares fish surplus to its own needs. When will Canada stop this resource giveaway?

[Wayne Easter, Liberal, Parliamentary Secretary to Minister of Fisheries and Oceans]

Mr. Speaker, the minister has talked many times in the House about Canadianizing the fishery.

We on this side of the House recognize that we have many international obligations in terms of our discussions with foreign countries as well.

We are trying to move forward on an international basis. At the same time the minister has made it very clear that where possible, where fish are not surplus to our needs, we will Canadianize the fisheries.

Health

[Gilles Duceppe, Bloc, Laurier—Sainte-Marie, QC]

Mr. Speaker, following in the steps of numerous health stakeholders, the Government of Quebec and every provincial government, supporters of the Liberal Party of Canada are now expressing concerns about the drastic cuts made in health, cuts that have literally devastated health systems across Canada.

Will the Minister of Finance finally admit that he has gone much too far with his cuts to transfer payments to the provinces and that these cuts, totalling in excess of $6 billion a year, are causing irreparable damage to the various health systems across Canada?

[Allan Rock, Liberal, Minister of Health]

Mr. Speaker, clearly, transfers to the provinces have already been increased. In fact, a few months ago, the Minister of Finance introduced in the House of Commons a bill to increase transfers by $1.5 billion a year.

Over the next five years, this will mean an extra $7 billion available to the provinces for health.

[Gilles Duceppe, Bloc, Laurier—Sainte-Marie, QC]

Mr. Speaker, the Minister of Health gave me the same answer the Prime Minister gave Liberal supporters, admitting that his government is maintaining a $12.5 billion cash floor for transfers.

Indeed, by admitting that this is the cash floor, did the Minister of Health not just admit, as did the Prime Minister, that more than $6 billion have been cut from transfer payments, much of which go to health care in Canada?

[Allan Rock, Liberal, Minister of Health]

Mr. Speaker, we have set at $12.5 billion a year the amount of cash transfers to the provinces based on the recommendation of the National Forum on Health.

The situation was studied for almost two years. They considered all factors and recommended that the transfer be maintained at the level of $12.5 billion a year. We have accepted the recommendation.

Health really is a priority for us and, in the coming years, we will continue to work with the provinces to strengthen the health system across Canada.

[Pauline Picard, Bloc, Drummond, QC]

Mr. Speaker, some Liberal supporters found out that it is the government, through its excessive cuts, that created, to a large extent, the problems experienced in hospitals across Canada.

Has the Minister of Finance finally understood that his own supporters are, like us, asking him to use the government's financial margin to restore the level of the transfers to the provinces, transfers that are used to fund health care, among other things?

[Allan Rock, Liberal, Minister of Health]

Mr. Speaker, the convention of the Liberal Party of Canada held this past weekend confirmed this government's wisdom in making health care a priority.

Improving Canada's health care system is truly one of our key priorities, and the delegates obviously shared our view during the weekend.

I hope that my provincial counterparts, including the minister—

[The Acting Speaker (Mr. McClelland)]

The hon. member for Drummond.

[Pauline Picard, Bloc, Drummond, QC]

Mr. Speaker, when one makes a mess, one has a duty to clean it up.

Does the Minister of Health not realize that it is not by getting involved in home care, which is a provincial jurisdiction, that he will clean up the mess he created with his cuts in Canada's health sector?

[Allan Rock, Liberal, Minister of Health]

Mr. Speaker, as I said, we adopted the recommendation of the National Forum on Health and we established a corresponding level of transfers.

As for home care and community based services, these are truly a key component to solve the issues confronting us in Canada's health care system. Last week I visited the Fleury hospital, in Montreal, and I saw for myself that a number of problems in emergency rooms result from a lack of infrastructures in community based health care services.

We intend to act on this.

[Bill Blaikie, NDP, Winnipeg—Transcona, MB]

Mr. Speaker, my question is also for the Minister of Health.

The Liberal convention of the past weekend passed a resolution calling on the Liberal government to “develop a process to continuously measure the quality of health care in Canada”.

Later today the House will be debating an NDP motion to amend the CHST to set up exactly such a process to require the government to table a regular assessment of whether the cash floor for the CHST transfer is capable of sustaining quality health care in Canada.

Would the Minister consider supporting this amendment? It seems to me that it goes a long way toward implementing the very resolution that was passed this weekend at his party convention.

[Allan Rock, Liberal, Minister of Health]

Mr. Speaker, during the weekend it became clear that the delegates to the Liberal convention support the government's choice of health as one of its key priorities in the coming year. Indeed it confirms we are on the right track with the change to the level of transfers over the coming years making more money available and picking areas of priority for action such as home and community care.

May I also say that the federal government must do its share but the provinces must also choose their priorities wisely. We would hope the provinces would make health their priority so that together we could—

[The Acting Speaker (Mr. McClelland)]

The hon. member for Winnipeg—Transcona.

[Bill Blaikie, NDP, Winnipeg—Transcona, MB]

Mr. Speaker, I asked the minister a very direct question. There is an opportunity available today for the minister, by supporting our amendment, to implement the process whereby he could regularly table an assessment of how well medicare is working.

Why would he not rise today and say that he would support this amendment? Clearly Liberals at the convention shared NDP concerns about what is happening to our health care system. This is an opportunity for the minister to show some leadership and some consensus building on how to deal with this issue. Will he accept the amendment?

[Allan Rock, Liberal, Minister of Health]

Mr. Speaker, quite simply the amendment in our view is unnecessary because the government continuously reassesses the sufficiency of all its actions in relation to health care. We went through that very process in changing the amount of the CHST cash transfer during the past few months.

I assure the House both in terms of the transfers and in terms of other steps we are taking in relation to health that we will constantly be involved in reassessing the sufficiency of the support for what we believe is an essential service for all Canadians.

[André Bachand, Progressive Conservative, Richmond—Arthabaska, QC]

Mr. Speaker, a very important activity took place on the weekend, which could be described as the second national forum on health.

I ask the Minister of Health whether he will listen to members of his own party—Liberals—after not listening to Canadians, or the provinces or the people working in the health field, and immediately reinstate the system of cash transfers to the provinces, which are in desperate need of them?

[Allan Rock, Liberal, Minister of Health]

Mr. Speaker, over the weekend, the delegates were not advocating spending for the sake of spending, but rather investing in order to strengthen Canada's health care system.

That is what we intend to do. At this point, the whole issue of home care and of community health care—a vital part of Canada's health care system—is under examination.

We intend—

[The Acting Speaker (Mr. McClelland)]

The hon. member for Richmond—Arthabaska.

[André Bachand, Progressive Conservative, Richmond—Arthabaska, QC]

Mr. Speaker, I would like to know from the minister whether he listened to people in this second national forum on health, which took place this weekend. Before setting other priorities, his first priority should be to provide services and transfers to the provinces, since the provinces look after health care in Canada.

If he considers health a priority, just imagine what sort of priority the government is giving to employment. Health is sick in Canada.

Will the minister make a commitment in this House to listen to members of his own party and give the provinces more money in transfers than they are currently getting?

[Allan Rock, Liberal, Minister of Health]

Mr. Speaker, I would remind the hon. member that the first thing we did after resolving the financial situation was to increase the amount of transfers to $12.5 billion a year, the exact amount recommended by the National Forum on Health.

They looked at the situation for over two years and recommended we transfer $12.5 billion, which we did. This testifies to the government's commitment to Canada's health system.

Export Development Corporation

[Chuck Strahl, Reform, Fraser Valley, BC]

Mr. Speaker, when the Prime Minister was out of office in 1990 he told Canadians “I am not interested in patronage because I'm a Liberal”. Excuse Canadians for seeing the irony in this. The Prime Minister is rapidly becoming the king of patronage appointments.

Robert Fung, his latest appointment, hired the Prime Minister to work for him when the Prime Minister was out of politics. That would be fine except that now Mr. Fung has been rewarded with an appointment to the Export Development Corporation.

Why does the Prime Minister continue to appoint his friends? Is that not patronage, appointing friends to these plum patronage positions?

[Herb Gray, Liberal, Deputy Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, Mr. Fung is a very distinguished Canadian businessman. He has great expertise in business, especially in dealing with Pacific rim countries. The Reform Party should thank Mr. Fung for being willing to give up his time to lend his expertise in the promotion of Canada's exports.

[Chuck Strahl, Reform, Fraser Valley, BC]

Mr. Speaker, maybe I should be asking what is their definition of a patronage appointment. It seems they are on a bit of a roll.

First, Robert Fung hired the Prime Minister when the Prime Minister was looking for work. That is fine, except that in return the Prime Minister appointed Mr. Fung first to the team Canada advisory board and now to the Export Development Corporation with a healthy retainer. It is starting to sound like déja vu.

Given the recent record, how many more announcements can we expect where the Prime Minister simply appoints his former employers to plum patronage positions?

[Herb Gray, Liberal, Deputy Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, Mr. Fung has agreed to serve part time on the board of the Export Development Corporation. We should be grateful that somebody with his expertise is willing to take the time away from his business activities where he would earn an awful lot more than he would attending a few meetings of the Export Development Corporation.

Instead of criticizing Mr. Fung, the Reform Party and all Canadians should praise him. The fact that he may be a supporter of the Prime Minister does not take anything away from his competence.

If the Reform Party had its way, there would be only one type of appointment. That would—