Debates of March 30th, 1998

Assistance To Ice Storm Victims

[Jacques Saada, Liberal, Brossard—La Prairie, QC]

Mr. Speaker, the minister responsible for economic development today announced, on behalf of the Minister of Human Resources Development, the payment of over $3.7 million to three projects aimed at helping the regions hit by the ice storm.

These projects will provide work experience to 280 unemployed Montrealers and help others deal with the effects of the ice storm. This contribution comes from the disaster relief fund, which amounts to $50 million. These projects will help the City of Montreal recover its charm and beauty quickly.

I pay tribute to the Government of Canada's part in revitalizing Montreal.

Millennium Scholarships

[Yves Rocheleau, Bloc, Trois-Rivières, QC]

Mr. Speaker, today all of Quebec, from the premier to the entire coalition on education, has spoken out against the creation of the millennium scholarships.

As presented, these scholarships do not in any way meet Quebec's needs in the field of education. What is more, they penalize Quebec for its longstanding choice to keep tuition fees and student debt down to reasonable levels.

The education system in Quebec has suffered, and continues to suffer, from the deep cuts in transfer payments imposed by the federal government.

The federal government must allow Quebec to exercise its right to withdraw from the millennium scholarship program with full compensation, because investment in education in Quebec must be tailored to the needs Quebeckers have identified and not imposed unilaterally by a government anxious to enhance its visibility.

Port Moody—Coquitlam Byelection

[Andrew Telegdi, Liberal, Kitchener—Waterloo, ON]

Mr. Speaker, this weekend showed that Reform Party members do not know what they want to be.

Some suggest that Reformers go back and join the revamped Conservative Party. Others will do anything to convert former Conservatives. The leader wants a party with a new name but the same leader.

One thing that unites all Reformers is an admission that the Reform vision for Canada cannot attract support on its own merit. The best they can hope for is to be Reformatories. The Reformers today are up Beaver Creek without a paddle.

Today the voters for Port Moody—Coquitlam have a choice. They can choose a party that does not know what it wants to be and may not exist by the year 2000. Or voters can choose a strong local representative in the Liberal Party, the only national party that has a future, a party that is focused on everyday needs of people, not political opportunism.

I am sure the voters of Port Moody—Coquitlam will do what is best for their community and support Lou Sekora.

The Debt

[Philip Mayfield, Reform, Cariboo—Chilcotin, BC]

Mr. Speaker, last the week the President of the Treasury Board released part III of the main estimates. These estimates clearly show the government's intention to continue its tax and spend ways. Canadians are now so overtaxed that bankruptcies are at record levels and now we have a lower standard of living than we did five years ago.

Out of the estimated budgetary expenditure of $148 billion, $43.5 billion is being spent on interest payments alone on the national debt. That is 29% of total government spending just to service the debt.

My Cariboo—Chilcotin constituents have told me time and again they need more money in their pockets for minimum necessities. While this government boasts of busting the deficit on the backs of taxpayers, it is looking for new ways to spend more tax dollars.

Did the government not learn its lesson that it cannot pay down the debt with money already spent? Apparently not.

Infrastructure

[Rick Borotsik, Progressive Conservative, Brandon—Souris, MB]

Mr. Speaker, today I rise to discuss an issue which is not only of great importance in my riding of Brandon—Souris but transcends into an issue of national importance.

The issue involves providing the city of Brandon the highway infrastructure needed to attract and service the Maple Leaf hog processing plant. This will have a great economic impact not only on the city of Brandon but also on the province of Manitoba and Canada as a whole.

The federal Minister of Transport has said that his department has been generous in funding highway networks. However, the federal government's involvement in highways since the Liberal government took power has been dismal. On average the federal government has allocated only $6.4 million per year to Manitoba highways despite collecting in Manitoba an average of $124 million per year in road fuel excise taxes.

In reality, the federal government has only put 4.8% back into Manitoba roads. This clearly illustrates Liberal government policy toward the provinces. We will take when we are supposed to give. We will take credit when credit is not due and we will lay blame where fault is our own.

Hepatitis C

[Deborah Grey, Reform, Edmonton North, AB]

Mr. Speaker, the health minister has tried to craft a public image of being a really caring and compassionate individual. That is his leadership strategy: he has more heart than his rival, the finance minister.

However, last week we saw the real McCoy come forward. He callously sentenced thousands of hepatitis C victims to suffer alone without any hope.

I would like to ask Mr. Compassion today, why is it that he found $2 million for Brian Mulroney and not one thin dime for the victims of hepatitis C?

[Allan Rock, Liberal, Minister of Health]

Mr. Speaker, 13 governments, all the provinces, the two territories and the Government of Canada had to make a tough decision. We identified in this tainted blood tragedy a period of 1986 to 1990 which stands apart from all the others.

During that period there were tests available that could have and should have been put in place to avoid infections and they were not. We are compensating people during that period because it was during that period that something could have been done to help.

[Deborah Grey, Reform, Edmonton North, AB]

Mr. Speaker, that is no comfort for those who were tainted and infected outside of that time. This health minister made a legal decision, an accounting decision, a budgetary decision. It had nothing to do with compassionate, fair, human decisions at all.

There are now two tiers of hepatitis C victims in this country. There are those whose life is valued and those who do not even seem to exist at all in the eyes of this minister.

How much money has the minister set aside to fight these victims in courts and lawsuits and how much has he spent on PR damage control?

[Allan Rock, Liberal, Minister of Health]

Mr. Speaker, in the period before 1986 hepatitis C was not even known. It was called non-A, non-B hepatitis. In the period before 1986 people in the medical system, acting in the best of faith and with the scientific and medical knowledge of the day, did the best they could. There are risks and benefits in every medical procedure.

In these cases, tragically, before 1986 that risk benefit worked out in the case of tainted blood to cause infections with hepatitis C. However, the period 1986 to 1990 was the period during which something could have been done and was not done. It is for that reason, as a matter of principle, that we distinguished that period from all the others.

[Deborah Grey, Reform, Edmonton North, AB]

Mr. Speaker, that is not much comfort for those who were infected before 1986. Frankly, they do not really care what it is called.

The minister is so fond of saying “We care. We have families too and we really understand how you feel”. The hepatitis C victims have family members also, except they are dying. Instead of spending their last months with their families, they are now going to be going through the courts fighting against this minister for compensation.

Is this the new Liberal definition of compassion?

[Allan Rock, Liberal, Etobicoke Centre, ON]

Mr. Speaker, I do not recall and I do not think my colleagues, the ministers of health, can recall any decision which has been more difficult than dealing with this issue of compensation for those who innocently were tainted by contaminated blood.

However, we also agreed that we should proceed on a principle. We agreed that we should look at the situation to determine whether distinctions could be drawn. To say that anybody who has an adverse consequence from the health system, no matter fault, no matter good faith, no matter the state of scientific knowledge, should receive compensation is not a principle on which we—

[The Speaker]

The hon. member for Macleod.

[Grant Hill, Reform, Macleod, AB]

Mr. Speaker, the health minister says there was nothing that could have been done before 1986. That is categorically false. In 1981 one of the main directors of the Red Cross sent a memo around to the Red Cross saying that there was something specific that could be done and they did nothing.

There is no way to differentiate people who have hepatitis C. They are sick and many of them will die.

Why does the government not just admit that what it has done is wrong and compensate all the victims of hepatitis C? Why not?

[Allan Rock, Liberal, Minister of Health]

Mr. Speaker, the best history of all of this tragedy was written by Mr. Justice Krever who spent four years going through the evidence. It is clear from the chronology that 1986 was the turning point. That was the year in which the countries to whom we compare ourselves internationally, for example the United States, adopted surrogate testing. That was the turning point.

It is for that reason that all health ministers agree that the period 1986 to 1990 should be the period during which we make a distinction compared to the rest and that is the period during which compensation will be paid.

[Grant Hill, Reform, Macleod, AB]

Mr. Speaker, I am delighted that the health minister brings up Justice Krever's report. He said “Compensate everyone”. That was his recommendation.

There have been two other major public relations blunders in the last few months in Canada. Two governments suggested compensation packages which were wrong for the Dionne quintuplets and for those who were sterilized in Canada without their permission. As soon as they realized they were wrong, they reversed their stand.

There is a right way and a wrong way to treat the victims of hepatitis C. Why has this health minister chosen the wrong way?

[Allan Rock, Liberal, Minister of Health]

Mr. Speaker, Mr. Justice Krever did his job. He was speaking about just the blood system. He made his recommendations. Then it was up to governments to do their job, to take responsibility for making decisions about the health system in general.

I have explained to this House and to the public of Canada the basis on which we proceeded. The distinction between this and the other cases referred to by the hon. member is that in those cases they proceeded on the wrong principle. Here we are proceeding on a rational analysis, a basis of principle which will remain a distinction justified by the facts. It is a distinction with which I believe the Canadian people will agree.

Transitional Job Creation Fund

[Gilles Duceppe, Bloc, Laurier—Sainte-Marie, QC]

Mr. Speaker, in reference to the transitional job creation fund, the Minister of Human Resources Development said, and I quote “It is one of the effective tools used by this government and we certainly intend to continue providing assistance to the unemployed in this way”.

Since the fund has now run dry, will the minister confirm that he does indeed plan to invest additional amounts in the transitional job creation fund?

[Pierre Pettigrew, Liberal, Minister of Human Resources Development]

Mr. Speaker, our commitment to the transitional job creation fund was for three years. There is one year to go. It is true that certain amounts have already been spent over the previous year, but we are extremely pleased with what the transitional job creation fund has accomplished.

We are certainly pleased to see real jobs being created by attracting more private sector investments. It has been a useful tool in the past. However, the transitional job creation fund was established for a three year period, and there is one year to go.

[Gilles Duceppe, Bloc, Laurier—Sainte-Marie, QC]

Mr. Speaker, there may be a year remaining in the program, but the coffers are empty. There is no money left in the fund.

While the fund was overflowing with money last year, before the election, it is all gone now. We know there is a $19 billion surplus in the employment insurance fund.

Does the minister realize that, even if this is not an election year, the unemployed, their children and their families still need help and assistance, especially as the spring gap nears?

[Pierre Pettigrew, Liberal, Minister of Human Resources Development]

Mr. Speaker, I welcome the Bloc leader's congratulations on the good work we have done with the transitional job creation fund.

It is indeed a very dynamic tool, which has helped thousands and thousands of unemployed workers. Ninety five million dollars, or 30% of this fund, is earmarked for Quebec, and I think this is extremely beneficial to Quebeckers living in regions with a particularly high rate of unemployment.

[Paul Crête, Bloc, Kamouraska—Rivière-Du-Loup—Témiscouata—Les Basques, QC]

Mr. Speaker, the problem is that the Minister of Human Resources Development is still refusing to shore up the transitional job creation fund and is handing out grants one by one from what is left at the bottom of the barrel, as was done in the case of the Matane shrimp plant.

Are we to understand that, from now on, applications to the transitional job creation fund will be handled on a piecemeal basis?

[Pierre Pettigrew, Liberal, Minister of Human Resources Development]

Mr. Speaker, I am extremely happy that we were able to help save the Matane shrimp plant and I am astounded to hear the Bloc Quebecois accuse us of doing a poor job in this case.

I am continually astonished at how they are prepared to grandstand with their charges that we are scraping the bottom of the barrel as soon as we make strategic investments in regions where unemployment is too high. I am not interested in grandstanding.

[Paul Crête, Bloc, Kamouraska—Rivière-Du-Loup—Témiscouata—Les Basques, QC]

Mr. Speaker, what we are not interested in is the minister's piecemeal management.

Are we to understand that the minister is in the process of converting the transitional job creation fund into a discretionary program for his own political use?

[Pierre Pettigrew, Liberal, Minister of Human Resources Development]

Mr. Speaker, I can tell you that the member for Matane, who belongs to the same political party as the hon. member, approached us and agreed that it was not discretionary, for he gave me his support.

So the hon. member should do his homework before saying that it is a discretionary decision.

Millennium Scholarships

[Alexa McDonough, NDP, Halifax, NS]

Mr. Speaker, by agreeing to negotiate with Quebec on the millennium fund, the Prime Minister is acknowledging the failure of his unilateral approach. The other provinces also have reservations about the millennium fund.

Is the Prime Minister prepared to discuss with all the provinces to determine the use to be made of the money available for students?