Debates of March 31st, 1998

Hepatitis C

[Jean Chrétien, Liberal, Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, the compensation was an agreement that was negotiated between the provincial health ministers and the federal health minister under a very severe situation. In fact the federal government contributed $800 million and the provincial governments are contributing $300 million. That is what has been decided collectively by the provincial governments and the federal government.

I am amazed today. For years these guys across the aisle have been asking us to cut welfare, asking us to cut payments to this person and that person. Suddenly they are on the road to Damascus.

[Deborah Grey, Reform, Edmonton North, AB]

Mr. Speaker, we guys across the aisle at least recognize a moral responsibility when we see one.

Canadians are watching the heartless approach the health minister is taking toward these innocent victims of the blood scandal. The lawyer says “this is difficult”. It is difficult, but it is also deadly.

Will the Prime Minister tell his health minister to back off and compensate all victims of this blood tragedy today?

[Allan Rock, Liberal, Minister of Health]

Mr. Speaker, we made very clear the reasons why every government in this country believes this is the right and responsible course to take.

The hon. member should remember that over 22,000 people will be receiving assistance, all of those who were infected during the period when the system did not work as it should have. And those who were infected by those people, their spouses and children are also going to be compensated.

This is the right thing to do. All governments are taking their responsibilities in an appropriate way.

[Deborah Grey, Reform, Edmonton North, AB]

Mr. Speaker, I will give you an example of what is the right thing to do.

The governments of Ontario and Alberta said they were wrong and and listened to their conscience by compensating the Dionne quintuplets and the victims of sterilization. They were not ashamed to stand up and say “Sorry, we made a mistake”.

When is the Prime Minister going to stop listening to this cold lawyer in the health department and follow his heart and compensate all victims?

[Jean Chrétien, Liberal, Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, this is a program that has been developed by the provincial governments and the federal government according to the obligation of all levels of government. From this side we have contributed much more than the provinces to resolve this problem.

There were all stripes of governments involved and they all agreed. There was agreement from the NDP, the Conservatives, the Liberals, even the Parti Quebecois. The obligation of the governments was met in a very sensitive way and it is the right—

Millennium Scholarships

[Gilles Duceppe, Bloc, Laurier—Sainte-Marie, QC]

Mr. Speaker, yesterday the premier of Quebec met with the Prime Minister of Canada concerning the millennium scholarships.

The parties agreed to mandate two negotiators to find a way to reconcile the objectives of both governments. Let us keep in mind that all those involved in education in Quebec support the position of the Quebec government.

Does the Prime Minister agree that, in order to give the negotiations a chance, he ought to suspend examination of Bill C-36, which concerns the millennium scholarships, until the end of the negotiations?

[Jean Chrétien, Liberal, Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, the money allocated for the millennium scholarships will be taken from the budget, because it is the last day to do so. This money will be invested in a foundation. The foundation and the legislation are necessary.

If we want the program to be put into place in September 1999, the bill needs to be passed as soon as possible.

[Gilles Duceppe, Bloc, Laurier—Sainte-Marie, QC]

Mr. Speaker, one must conclude that the Prime Minister still intends to proceed with the adoption of those clauses of Bill C-36 which deal with the millennium scholarships.

In this case, can he commit to introducing an amendment to Bill C-36 which will set out a mechanism to allow for a future agreement with the Government of Quebec?

[Jean Chrétien, Liberal, Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, the bill enables the foundation to sign agreements with the provinces. The foundation will hold discussions with each province.

In the case of Quebec, I met with the premier yesterday and we agreed to preliminary meetings at the departmental level. The Deputy Minister of Human Resources Development will meet with his Quebec counterpart to find a solution which will allow young Quebeckers to benefit from the Canadian government's millennium scholarship project along with other young Canadians.

[Michel Gauthier, Bloc, Roberval, QC]

Mr. Speaker, the millennium scholarship fund should only be set up in a spirit of openness on the part of the federal government toward the education sector, whose main representatives came here yesterday with Mr. Bouchard and supported his position.

My question is for the Prime Minister. His first reply is of concern to us. Does the Prime Minister know that, under the bill currently before the House, it is impossible for the millennium scholarship fund to delegate any responsibility to a government with which it may sign an agreement?

[Jean Chrétien, Liberal, Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, I think that, in its present form, the bill does not in any way prevent the foundation from signing an agreement that is acceptable to both sides.

The important thing is to make sure that the millennium scholarships are accessible to all young Canadians, in every province of the country.

[Michel Gauthier, Bloc, Roberval, QC]

Mr. Speaker, I want to make it clear that the bill specifically provides that the foundation cannot delegate any of its responsibilities to a government. It can certainly sign agreements, but it cannot delegate any of its responsibilities. This is the issue here.

Does the Prime Minister not think it would be wiser to take another look at the bill to see if, following yesterday's meeting, some adjustments are in order?

[Jean Chrétien, Liberal, Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, we are satisfied that the bill gives us all the flexibility we need to settle the issue in a reasonable manner.

Hepatitis C

[Alexa McDonough, NDP, Halifax, NS]

Mr. Speaker, I have a question for the health minister. I hope today the back doors are locked.

Can the minister tell this House, without blaming the provinces and without hiding behind the lawyers, does he think the hepatitis C victims infected before 1986 have been treated justly and fairly?

[Allan Rock, Liberal, Minister of Health]

Mr. Speaker, sometimes governments are called upon to make tough decisions as a matter of public policy. When we look back on the tragedy of the tainted blood, it is plain that the period 1986 to 1990 stands out. It stands out because it is a period during which those responsible could have and should have acted. Had they acted, many of those infections would have been prevented.

Every government in the country thinks it is good public policy to provide assistance to people who were infected in that period. That is the reason we put aside more than $1 billion to assist the more than 22,000 people who were infected.

Health

[Alexa McDonough, NDP, Halifax, NS]

Mr. Speaker, today's cabinet tobacco go around is just a smokescreen to hide the many things the minister does not want to talk about. No new money for health transfers. Inadequate compensation for hepatitis C victims. Continuing chaos in the health protection branch. More cave-ins to the multinational drug companies.

How can the Minister of Health pretend to be in charge? How can he do his job when every major health decision is being made by the Minister of Finance?

[Allan Rock, Liberal, Minister of Health]

Mr. Speaker, I can understand how the view of things would be distorted from that perspective. Let me fill the hon. leader of the third or fourth party in on some of the facts of the matter.

The facts are that this minister and this government have identified the important priorities in the health care system. Home and community care; strengthening the system of health care throughout the country; enforcing the principles of the Canada Health Act; working toward pharmacare to make pharmaceutical products available. Those are the priorities for the health care system and those are the priorities of this government.

Hepatitis C

[Greg Thompson, Progressive Conservative, Charlotte, NB]

Mr. Speaker, the minister left the House yesterday without speaking to the hepatitis group which is the sickest and has the highest mortality rate. He did not speak with them. He did not meet with them.

Does that close the door forever on his talks with these people? Is he simply going to keep it slammed? We are talking about unilateral action on behalf of the government to compensate the sickest group of the hepatitis C victims.

[Allan Rock, Liberal, Minister of Health]

Mr. Speaker, yesterday the hon. member shamelessly exploited victims for his own reason. I think he should be ashamed of himself.

The record shows that I have met more than once with the very people who were in our company yesterday. In fact, last Thursday I spoke by telephone with Mr. McCarty to tell him personally about the decision that was coming Friday. It was not because I thought he would like it. I knew he would not, but I wanted him to hear it from me.

This is a minister who accepts his responsibility, who has met with victims.

[The Speaker]

The hon. member for Charlotte.

[Greg Thompson, Progressive Conservative, Charlotte, NB]

That is right, Mr. Speaker. He spoke long distance. This is the minister of remote control. Why does he not meet with them eyeball to eyeball. He can explain to them what he has explained to this House and they can determine whether or not he is sincere in what he is talking about.

We have talked about this issue for weeks and weeks and he has successfully dodged the bullet. The fact remains that there are 40,000 uncompensated innocent victims. Will the minister act and show true leadership on this issue?

[Allan Rock, Liberal, Minister of Health]

Mr. Speaker, what the hon. member obviously does not know is that I have met with those victims. I have met with several of the people he has referred to. I have met with them on more than one occasion. Last week, as I said, I spoke to them directly to tell them what the decision of the governments was.

Last week every government in this country agreed on the appropriate approach in public policy to compensate those who were infected during the period when governments could have acted and did not. That is an appropriate and responsible approach.

[Grant Hill, Reform, Macleod, AB]

Mr. Speaker, some tens of thousands of Canadians have been infected by hepatitis C, infected by the very same virus, and they got it the very same way, from tainted blood. They only ask to be treated fairly. They only ask to be treated equally.

My question is to the Prime Minister. We can tell a lot about leadership when an individual has made an error. I ask the Prime Minister today to right the error of hepatitis C compensation to those innocent victims.

[Allan Rock, Liberal, Minister of Health]

Mr. Speaker, what the hon. member sees here is a decision, a responsible decision, taken by every government in the country. We looked at the record and saw that during the period in question something could have been done, but it was not done.

As a physician I know the hon. member is well aware that every medical procedure involves risk as well as benefit. As a matter of public policy one cannot go back and erase the risk of the past, but we can deal with the period during which those responsible should have acted and did not, and that is what we have done. Those are the people who will be assisted by governments throughout this country.

[Grant Hill, Reform, Macleod, AB]

Mr. Speaker, on the very day we get that kind of an answer we have the health minister fighting vigorously in his cabinet for tobacco cash—$100 million for tobacco cash.

Here is what the hepatitis C victims say: “Why would that money go to tobacco instead of going to us?” That is my question to the health minister: Why would that money not go to the victims of hepatitis C? They do not want two tiers of victims.