Debates of April 2nd, 1998

Millenium Scholarships

[Jean Chrétien, Liberal, Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, there can always be an administrative agreement and it is not necessary to change the bill in order to be able to agree that the citizens of Quebec may receive millennium scholarships just as other citizens of Canada may receive them. Mr. Bouchard himself said that it was entirely normal for the federal government to be able to indicate to students that it was the one paying for the scholarships.

[Gilles Duceppe, Bloc, Laurier—Sainte-Marie, QC]

Mr. Speaker, Mr. Bouchard showed his open-mindedness at the start of these negotiations by saying that there was no problem: if the federal government wanted to be visible, that was fine.

But the question put to the legal adviser this morning is a clear indication that the present bill does not allow for an administrative agreement.

I ask the Prime Minister, who has just said that an administrative agreement would be possible, why he does not include a provision for an administrative agreement in this bill so that negotiations can reach a successful conclusion?

[Jean Chrétien, Liberal, Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, we were at the meeting and we did not discuss the need to change the bill. I said clearly that the Canadian government had decided to have a millennium project that would take the form of scholarships to help prepare young people for the 21st century and Mr. Bouchard recognized that this was an entirely logical goal.

He then recognized that it was entirely appropriate for the Government of Canada to ensure that recipients were made clearly aware that what they were receiving were millennium scholarships, the Government of Canada's proposed millennium project.

Acquisition Of Submarines

[Michel Gauthier, Bloc, Roberval, QC]

Mr. Speaker, we read in the newspapers today that the federal government is about to buy four used submarines from Great Britain, at a cost of $800 million.

Considering that the government just made unprecedented cuts to health, education and employment insurance, is it a priority to buy submarines?

[Art Eggleton, Liberal, Minister of National Defence]

Mr. Speaker, we are still in discussions with the British with respect to this matter. When those discussions are finalized, we will have an announcement to make one way or the other.

[Michel Gauthier, Bloc, Roberval, QC]

Mr. Speaker, we do not want to be told when the submarines will be bought. We want to discuss the issue with the government and ask questions.

Since the cold war is over, it is hard to figure out what purpose these four used submarines will serve. What are the government's priorities? Instead of investing in people, it is investing in armaments. Why?

[Art Eggleton, Liberal, Minister of National Defence]

Mr. Speaker, we always believe first and foremost in investing in people, investing in what the people of Canada need and the sovereignty of the people of Canada. Protection of that sovereignty is part and parcel of that. We believe in giving our Canadian forces quality equipment because they are quality people doing a quality job.

As to the specifics of this matter, the matter is still under discussion with the government of the U.K. I have nothing further to add at this time.

Hepatitis C

[Judy Wasylycia-Leis, NDP, Winnipeg North Centre, MB]

Mr. Speaker, the Minister of Health says that all the provinces are behind him in his cruel decision to exclude tens of thousands of victims of the blood tragedy, but today we have learned that that is not the case. If that is not the case and it was the federal government that killed the plan for fair compensation, will the minister finally assure the House today that he will go back to the provinces, back to the table and propose a no fault compensation plan as proposed by Justice Krever?

[Allan Rock, Liberal, Minister of Health]

Mr. Speaker, I do not think it is helpful to allow a myth to grow about the provinces' position. It is very clear that the provinces support this offer.

I spoke this morning with Minister Rochon of Quebec. He reaffirmed that he is behind this offer. He put the same thing in writing in a letter to all health ministers.

This morning Premier Clark said what we all feel. We all feel uncomfortable about this difficult decision. The premier also made it clear he acknowledges there is an agreement. His minister's office confirmed it supports it.

Let us keep the facts clear. All provincial governments joined with the federal government in supporting this position.

[Judy Wasylycia-Leis, NDP, Winnipeg North Centre, MB]

Mr. Speaker, let us look at the facts today. At least one provincial health minister said the federal government should have thrown more money into the pot. Another province will act on its own to help the forgotten victims. Today the premier of a third province has said that the issue is not closed.

I ask the minister, will he stop hiding behind the provinces, hiding behind the lawyers and come up with a fair compensation package for all the victims of hepatitis C?

[Allan Rock, Liberal, Minister of Health]

Mr. Speaker, the hon. member misses the point. This is not politics. This is not partisanship. This is policy. All governments, New Democratic governments, Conservative governments and Liberal governments joined together and came to the same conclusion. In the chronology of these events in this awful tragedy there was a period during which something could and should have been done. As a result we are offering compensation to victims who contracted hepatitis C during that period.

That is a position shared by all governments. All of us believe it is the right thing to do.

[Elsie Wayne, Progressive Conservative, Saint John, NB]

Mr. Speaker, West Germans were aware of the process to secure blood prior to 1986. In the meantime Canada was purchasing contaminated U.S. prison system blood products for its people.

Justice Krever stated in his report “Compensating some needy sufferers and not others cannot in my opinion be justified”. It cannot be justified by an Canadian. With this in mind, why is the minister refusing to treat all victims equally?

[Allan Rock, Liberal, Minister of Health]

Mr. Speaker, most people who look at the facts of this awful tragedy acknowledge, as Mr. Justice Krever did, that 1986 was the point that separated one stage of history from the other.

It was in 1986 that internationally, governments started putting in place methods to test blood for contaminants like hepatitis C. There was a risk before that but only afterward was there an international standard of a test.

It is for that reason that Conservative governments, Liberal governments and NDP governments across the country have chosen that period for the compensation of victims.

[Elsie Wayne, Progressive Conservative, Saint John, NB]

Mr. Speaker, whether we are Liberal, whether we are Conservative, or whether we are NDP, we have to do what is right for the people. We cannot have two standards.

Will the federal Minister of Health agree today to sit down with his provincial counterparts to discuss a more just compensation package for all victims, seeing as now the ministers at the provincial level are saying we have to take another look?

[Allan Rock, Liberal, Minister of Health]

Mr. Speaker, first of all, it is not the case that provincial ministers are walking away from the agreement. All provincial ministers support the agreement.

Second, I sat down with the provincial ministers for months and the result was an agreement to which we are all a party and which provides for government responsibility where it should be.

The member talks about doing the right thing by the people. The right thing by the people is having a government that takes the responsible if sometimes difficult and painful decisions based on good public policy.

[Grant Hill, Reform, Macleod, AB]

Mr. Speaker, just ten minutes before question period today we pulled off this information from the Prime Minister's website on the Krever commission: “We accept the conclusions contained in Justice Krever's report about the federal role in what happened. We accept those conclusions in their entirety and without reservation”.

If Justice Krever said compensate all the victims, my question is why is this website not worth the paper—

[The Speaker]

Before the hon. minister answers the question, please do not use any props in question period.

[Allan Rock, Liberal, Minister of Health]

Mr. Speaker, one of the things that comes through clearly from the conclusions of Mr. Justice Krever is that in 1986, commencing in 1986 and going forward, there was a time when those responsible for the blood system could have and should have acted to prevent infections but they did not. It is as a result of that conclusion as to responsibility that the governments of Canada have joined together to make an agreement that we will offer compensation to those infected during that period. That result flows directly from the conclusions of Mr. Justice Krever on the facts of this matter.

[Grant Hill, Reform, Macleod, AB]

Mr. Speaker, I quoted the Prime Minister's website. Let me quote again so that everyone can hear what Justice Krever really said. The first recommendation in his report is that: “Without delay the provinces and territories devise statutory no fault schemes for compensating persons who suffer serious problems with the blood supply. Everyone needs compensation”.

Which one of these individuals over here is the frequent flyer without the f ?

[The Speaker]

I am not sure that was a question. If the hon. minister wishes to address himself to the statement he may do so.

[Allan Rock, Liberal, Minister of Health]

Mr. Speaker, the conclusions of Mr. Justice Krever were clear, including the factual analysis of when governments could have and should have acted.

He made recommendations and in November I spoke on the day his report was tabled. I pledged then to study the recommendations, which we did, with provincial ministers to look at the recommendation on compensation. I know he recommended that everybody be compensated.

We decided the right thing to do for governments was to compensate those who were hurt because those responsible had not acted. That is the position. That is our conclusion. That is the position of all the governments in Canada.

Option Canada

[Suzanne Tremblay, Bloc, Rimouski—Mitis, QC]

Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Minister of Citizenship and Immigration.

The heritage minister is of the opinion that Option Canada's case is closed.

Yet, that phoney agency managed to spend $4.8 million during the referendum campaign and still refuses to tell the minister how it spent that money.

Can the Minister of Citizenship and Immigration, who was responsible for federal activities during the referendum campaign, tell us how Option Canada spent this $4.8 million?

[Andy Mitchell, Liberal, Secretary of State (Parks)]

Mr. Speaker, the minister of heritage on an ongoing basis in this House has replied to the Bloc on the issue of options Canada. She has provided over 100 pages of documentation. They simply do not want to accept the reality. It has been explained in this House very clearly and the issue is closed.

[Suzanne Tremblay, Bloc, Rimouski—Mitis, QC]

Mr. Speaker, for the information of the House, we did get a list of expenditures, but the figures were blacked out. We could not read any of them.

How can the Minister of Citizenship and Immigration join the Minister of Canadian Heritage in the “amnesiacs' club”, since she took part in weekly meetings to prepare every detail of the federal strategy during the referendum campaign?

[Andy Mitchell, Liberal, Secretary of State (Parks)]

Mr. Speaker, if the hon. member is worried about blacked out items in documents, maybe she should go to the PQ government and ask about plan O. What happened to the information on plan O? Why was that not released? Why has a plan concocted by the PQ government at the end of the referendum been blacked out? Maybe she should ask the PQ government.