Debates of April 20th, 1998

Banking

[Monte Solberg, Reform, Medicine Hat, AB]

Mr. Speaker, the official opposition's policy on bank mergers is very clear. If there is no competition, then there is no merger. On the other hand the Minister of Finance does not seem to have a policy. Why does he not admit that he is using his task force to cover up the lack of a policy? Why does he not admit that he is perfectly happy to let our big banks write the banking policy for this country? That is what he is doing.

[Paul Martin, Liberal, Minister of Finance]

Mr. Speaker, perhaps the hon. member ought to follow the debate in the House. We set up this task force because we very clearly understood changes would be brought in as a result of globalization and technological change. The basic questions the task force will have to answer are what impact will there be on small business, how will consumers be protected, how will rural communities be affected, what impact will this have on competition, what will happen to our current employees. These questions are the reason we set up the task force.

[Monte Solberg, Reform, Medicine Hat, AB]

Mr. Speaker, the finance minister has lots of questions but he has no answers. He is the minister. He is supposed to have some answers.

The country has been waiting since last year for this government to open up the banking industry to real competition, yet the government delays. Why the delay? Why is the government delaying bringing in legislation that would provide competition for consumers and businesses in Canada? He promised the legislation. Where is it?

[Paul Martin, Liberal, Minister of Finance]

Mr. Speaker, the question one has to really ask is to what extent will foreign competition provide new bank branches in rural Alberta, to what extent will foreign competition provide bank branches in rural Ontario. The real issue is why is the Reform Party fronting for the big banks; in one mandate, in one year, from Medicine Hat populist to Bay Street populist.

[Yvan Loubier, Bloc, Saint-Hyacinthe—Bagot, QC]

Mr. Speaker, last week, the CIBC and Toronto Dominion banks announced their intention to merge, as did the Bank of Montreal and the Royal Bank before them. These mergers are the result of market globalization.

Instead of assuming some leadership in this matter, the Minister of Finance put the federal government in a position where it is now trying to catch up to the banks and to this major movement.

How can the Minister of Finance justify the fact that his position and that of his government was not made public two years ago, when the Bank Act was last reviewed and when everyone knew that bank mergers were about to take place?

[Paul Martin, Liberal, Minister of Finance]

Mr. Speaker, that is why we broke with precedents and did not look back to the past to decide about the future of our financial institutions, and why we set up the MacKay committee to review these issues. We will make a decision in due time, that is when we are ready, not when the big banks would want us to do so.

[Yvan Loubier, Bloc, Saint-Hyacinthe—Bagot, QC]

Mr. Speaker, the Minister of Finance can say anything he wants, but the fact is that he is watching the train go by while the rest of the world is streamlining operations and has been doing so at an accelerated pace over the past five years.

Is the Minister of Finance prepared to consider the possibility that a special House committee be quickly set up to look at this merger, at its impact on workers, and also at the general attitude of the banks regarding loans, for example?

[Paul Martin, Liberal, Minister of Finance]

Mr. Speaker, why do the Bloc Quebecois and the other opposition parties refuse to face reality?

I want to congratulate my Liberal colleagues for setting up a Liberal caucus committee to review these issues. I also congratulate my Liberal colleagues who have been reviewing these issues for three years, while Bloc members have been making empty speeches.

[Jason Kenney, Reform, Calgary Southeast, AB]

Mr. Speaker, Clint Eastwood over there keeps looking at the issue but he does not do anything about it. We now have six big banks. We are looking at four big banks. We might go down to three big banks. How many big banks is enough competition for the minister? One? How many?

[Paul Martin, Liberal, Minister of Finance]

Mr. Speaker, the real issue is does the Reform Party want to sit down along with the government, along with the Canadian people, and take a look at the future of the Canadian financial institution system? Is the hon. member interested in what small consumers have to say? Is he interested in the problems of rural Canada? Is he interested in how in fact Canadian banks can turn themselves into large global powerhouses? Or does he simply want to stand up here and because a couple of banks decide to get together allow them to set the agenda?

[Jason Kenney, Reform, Calgary Southeast, AB]

Mr. Speaker, I do want to know what small businesses are saying. I have heard what they are saying. Two-thirds of the members of the Canadian Federation of Independent Business have said that they are opposed to these bank mergers.

Why is the minister not responding to them? Why is he going to allow financing to become more difficult for small businesses, for terms to become more difficult, to choke economic growth and job creation? Whose side is the finance minister on? The side of small business or the side of the big banks? Of Main Street or Bay Street?

[Paul Martin, Liberal, Minister of Finance]

Mr. Speaker, every time there is a new moon, Reform seems to change its position. If in fact that is Reform's position, then why did his leader, why did his party say that they were in favour of these mergers provided there was more foreign competition?

They had better make their minds up because the situation from this side of the House looking at them is confusing. Every time they speak it is confusing for the Canadian people.

C. D. Howe Institute

[Pierre Brien, Bloc, Témiscamingue, QC]

Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Minister of Finance.

The C. D. Howe Institute has released a study which contradicts what the federalists are always claiming, which is that the federal government is being treated by Quebec as a cash cow.

What is the Minister of Finance's reply to the C. D. Howe Institute's statement, supported by a study, that Quebec families pay $652 a year more in income tax to the federal government than they get back from it?

[Paul Martin, Liberal, Minister of Finance]

Mr. Speaker, the C.D. Howe Institute's analysis covers less than 40% of the federal government's total cash expenditures.

According to Statistics Canada, the federal government spent approximately $3,750 more per family in Quebec than it received.

[Pierre Brien, Bloc, Témiscamingue, QC]

Mr. Speaker, will the Minister of Finance admit that there is an imbalance between what people are paying and what they are receiving, and that this could not be otherwise with a federal government which has imposed huge cuts on the provinces in recent years, particularly in health and education, while continuing to collect more and more tax from those very same people?

[Paul Martin, Liberal, Minister of Finance]

Mr. Speaker, I have just given the hon. member his answer. It is clear, we have reduced taxes and we will continue to reduce them in the years to come.

If the hon. member has not understood, perhaps he wants the figures per person rather than per family. Again, according to Statistics Canada, the federal government spent about $1,500 more per person in Quebec than it received.

Young Offenders Act

[Chuck Cadman, Reform, Surrey North, BC]

Mr. Speaker, the justice minister has had her job for almost a year now. The Young Offenders Act was supposed to be one of her priorities but we are still waiting. She has used words like “timely fashion”, “soon” and “complicated”. Indeed her parliamentary secretary has told us to be patient. Now we find the real reason for delay is her lack of power or influence within her own caucus.

Will the minister admit she is in over her head and is unable to do the job Canadians expect of her?

[Anne McLellan, Liberal, Minister of Justice and Attorney General of Canada]

Mr. Speaker, unlike the hon. members on the other side of the House, we on this side understand that the renewal of the youth justice system is not a simplistic process. In fact it is one that requires the integration of very important values, protection of society, rehabilitation and reintegration of young people and crime prevention. That is what the renewal of the youth justice system in this country will be about.

[Chuck Cadman, Reform, Surrey North, BC]

Mr. Speaker, it is a sad day when politics and lobbying interfere with the security and safety of Canadians. The Minister of Justice is having problems with her own caucus on proposed amendments to the Young Offenders Act. The minister has had the benefit of an extensive justice committee review of the present legislation. She has had extensive input from provincial justice ministers. She has had extensive input from Canadians.

Will the minister do the right thing for the country or will she succumb to her backbenchers, many of whom have not studied the issues?

[Anne McLellan, Liberal, Minister of Justice and Attorney General of Canada]

Mr. Speaker, as I have already indicated, we will not take a simplistic approach to this issue seemingly aggravated by those on the other side of this House. Let me assure the hon. member that I look forward to working with him and other members of his party when we table our response to the standing committee report on youth justice.

Cigarette Prices

[Richard Marceau, Bloc, Charlesbourg, QC]

Mr. Speaker, this morning we learned that, with the increase in the price of cigarettes, cigarette smuggling is back with a vengeance in southern Quebec and Ontario.

Before the situation returns to early 1990 levels, has the solicitor general approached his colleague, the minister responsible for customs, regarding special action to eliminate this scourge?

[Andy Scott, Liberal, Solicitor General of Canada]

Mr. Speaker, as a matter of fact when consideration was given to increasing the price of cigarettes or the taxes on cigarettes, the RCMP was consulted in that exercise and felt that the increase that was suggested, and in fact the increase that we saw, was in the margins of what could be managed by the system as it exists now.

Trade

[David Pratt, Liberal, Nepean—Carleton, ON]

Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Secretary of State for Latin America and Africa. In light of U.S. President Bill Clinton's recent journey to Africa, can the minister tell this House what steps he is taking to better tap into the trade potential between Canada and Africa's emerging markets?

[David Kilgour, Liberal, Secretary of State (Latin America and Africa)]

Mr. Speaker, I thank the hon. member for Nepean—Carleton.

For the last two weeks or so, business groups, the hon. member for Etobicoke—Lakeshore and I were in six countries in western and southern Africa to try to increase investment flows and trade. The member will know already that Canada's trade with sub-Saharan Africa last year was about three quarters of a billion dollars, up one hundred over the year before.

Young Offenders Act

[Jack Ramsay, Reform, Crowfoot, AB]

Mr. Speaker, it has become very clear that the reason the justice minister has unduly delayed bringing in amendments to the Young Offenders Act is because she cannot control her own caucus.

My question to her is this. Is she not up to the job? Is that the real reason she is not doing the job that millions of Canadians are asking for? Is that the real reason for this unacceptable delay in bringing in amendments to the Young Offenders Act?