Debates of May 14th, 1998

Nuclear Testing

[Alexa McDonough, NDP, Halifax, NS]

Mr. Speaker, India's recent nuclear testing could trigger a serious arms race in south Asia. Pakistan is now threatening to test its own nuclear devices in response to India and the situation demands urgent action.

Will the Canadian government instruct the foreign affairs minister to leave the G-8 and go directly to Islamabad to dissuade Pakistan from further escalating regional tension by testing its own nuclear devices?

[Herb Gray, Liberal, Deputy Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, our high commissioner in Islamabad has already told the Pakistani government that Canada is asking it not to take any provocative stance and not to carry out any nuclear tests. We have also called in the Pakistani high commissioner to Canada and given him the same message.

Our message is very clear. If there are tests by Pakistan, the measures already taken against India and those we are contemplating taking further against India will be applied to Pakistan.

[Alexa McDonough, NDP, Halifax, NS]

Mr. Speaker, people want to see the foreign minister take a message directly there.

Canada's hands are not clean in this fiasco. Canada has sold nuclear materials and technology to nations that refuse to sign the non-proliferation treaty. Canada is hiding under the nuclear umbrella of the U.S. and NATO. Canada has failed to aggressively push for the global elimination of nuclear weapons. Canada must end its own ambiguity and complicity.

When will Canada show real leadership in the fight to eliminate nuclear weapons?

[Herb Gray, Liberal, Deputy Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, we have been showing leadership. We will continue to do so with respect to Pakistan. We cancelled our nuclear program with that country at the same time we cancelled our program with India almost 25 years ago.

As I have said, we have already sent a firm message to Pakistan that it should not take a provocative stance, that it should not carry out tests. Certainly it is a signal that the action we have taken against Indian we are ready to take against Pakistan. We hope it will not be necessary. With respect to the measures we are already looking at taking against India, we are considering applying, if necessary, the same further steps against Pakistan. That is firm action and I think it speaks for itself.

Health

[Elsie Wayne, Progressive Conservative, Saint John, NB]

Mr. Speaker, can the Minister of National Defence inform this House what steps he has taken to redress the case of Rudy Saueracker of Moncton, New Brunswick, a corporal who contracted hepatitis and HIV from a tainted blood transfusion in a military hospital?

[The Speaker]

As a general rule, those are very specific cases and I do not know that we can always expect the government to respond to them. However, if the hon. minister would like to address himself to that question, I will give him the floor.

[Art Eggleton, Liberal, Minister of National Defence]

Mr. Speaker, I can only say that we are concerned about the health and welfare of all our Canadian forces personnel. I do not know of the specific case the hon. member mentions but I would be happy to look into it.

[Elsie Wayne, Progressive Conservative, Saint John, NB]

Mr. Speaker, I am very glad the minister is going to look into it because it has been several years since that this man has been working with the government to try to get his compensation.

Representatives of hepatitis C victims said today that the number of victims infected between 1986 and 1990 is much lower than estimated in the Krever report. The health minister has argued that treating all hepatitis C victims equally would bankrupt the health care system.

How can the minister make such a claim and continue to refuse compensation when he has not put in place a mechanism to identify the total number of people infected?

[Joe Volpe, Liberal, Parliamentary Secretary to Minister of Health]

Mr. Speaker, one of the functions of today's meeting is essentially to hear the submissions like the one the member is addressing right now. It would be instructive as well to keep in mind that the numbers Krever accepted were those that had come after exhaustive investigation on his part.

Judge Krever accepted the numbers provided to him by Health Canada and other institutions. After analysing and evaluating each one, he came up with the numbers he gave in his final report.

This House through members on both sides has been asking that his report—

[The Speaker]

The hon. member for Red Deer.

Nuclear Testing

[Bob Mills, Reform, Red Deer, AB]

Mr. Speaker, yesterday the Prime Minister shrugged off Canada's nuclear sales to India. He simply said it broke its word. That might be business as usual in Liberal circles but Canadians find that irresponsible.

Canada's unique heavy water technology is still at the heart of India's nuclear arsenal. Is the government not just hiding the fact that it was Paul Martin Sr. who was involved in the deal in the first place?

[Ralph Goodale, Liberal, Minister of Natural Resources and Minister responsible for the Canadian Wheat Board]

Mr. Speaker, it really is remarkable the depths to which the opposition will stoop to try to score what appears in their eyes to be a point.

When Canada discovered in 1974 that India had made a nuclear test, we immediately suspended all our nuclear activity with them. We toughened and strengthened the safeguards. We invited India to sign the new safeguards. India declined and we terminated all our nuclear activity with them more than 20 years ago.

[Bob Mills, Reform, Red Deer, AB]

Mr. Speaker, that answer, I am sure, really makes Canadians feel reassured. A real leader would bring China, Pakistan and India together in forging a new Asian security agreement. A real leader would take action to stop a new arms race and a new cold war. Canadians wonder why does the Prime Minister not act like a real leader?

[Herb Gray, Liberal, Deputy Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, we certainly want to encourage dialogue among the Asian countries in question to reach a security agreement. We have been encouraging that.

We have been showing leadership in our contacts with Asian countries. We are showing leadership in taking firm action with respect to the unacceptable Indian nuclear tests. We are showing leadership. Beyond that all we have from the Reform Party is talk, not leadership, in contrast to the words, action and future action of our Prime Minister.

Young Offenders Act

[Michel Bellehumeur, Bloc, Berthier—Montcalm, QC]

Mr. Speaker, contrary to the intimations of the Minister of Justice, who is planning to amend the Young Offenders Act, there has been no increase in violent crime in Canada in the past 20 years. In addition, Quebec, where the act is intelligently applied, has the lowest recidivism rate in Canada.

Why did the Minister of Justice base her proposed reform on demagoguery as the editorial page of La Presse pointed out this morning, rather than on facts and statistics, which speak for themselves.

[Anne McLellan, Liberal, Minister of Justice and Attorney General of Canada]

Mr. Speaker, let me comment upon the hon. member's use of statistics.

The level of youth crime in this country has remained relatively stable but for unfortunately one category which is violent crime. We have seen a slight increase in the commission of violent crimes by young offenders.

Let me say that I believe the government response to the standing committee report deals with that and other issues. Our response is an integrated strategy that speaks to prevention, meaningful consequences and rehabilitation. I believe that represents fundamental core values that are shared by all Canadians.

[Michel Bellehumeur, Bloc, Berthier—Montcalm, QC]

Mr. Speaker, yesterday on the Téléjournal, her parliamentary secretary acknowledged that the statistics I have just mentioned were correct, but she said that the minister nevertheless wanted to legislate solely to calm public opinion and to look good.

Will the minister acknowledge that, as criminologist Jean Trépanier has pointed out, drafting legislation on prejudice rather than fact is neither acceptable nor responsible?

[Anne McLellan, Liberal, Minister of Justice and Attorney General of Canada]

Mr. Speaker, let me say again that I believe our government response to the renewal of the youth justice system speaks to fundamental Canadian values.

Canadians whether they live in Quebec, Alberta or British Columbia want us to prevent youth crime before it happens. They want us to have meaningful consequences when it happens. They want us to rehabilitate those who have committed an offence against society. Nothing more than this response represents core Canadian values.

National Defence

[Leon Benoit, Reform, Lakeland, AB]

Mr. Speaker, picture this: $75,000 spent on a fly-past; $67,000 on the use of a flight simulator; $75,000 on food and drink charged to the Crowne Plaza Hotel; a total of over $2 million spent on a conference-retirement party for General DeQuetteville. All this when privates and corporals are looking for decent clothing and respectable housing and are having to go to a food bank to feed their families.

Who is the genius who approved this spending? Was it the minister? He got an invite.

[Art Eggleton, Liberal, Minister of National Defence]

Mr. Speaker, once again the hon. member and his party have got things all wrong.

First it was not a retirement party for General DeQuetteville. There were people of all ranks there to discuss and learn about the future of the air force, particularly after 20 years of air force reduction. It did not cost $2 million. The incremental cost was $330,000. It was for a valid conference. The internal auditor will soon be reporting on the matter.

Immigration

[Grant McNally, Reform, Dewdney—Alouette, BC]

Mr. Speaker, in 1993 Mohamad Sharif Karimzada, a junior level Afghan diplomat, was granted refugee status in Canada. He has since been ordered deported.

High ranking UN officials and U.S. officials have spoken on his behalf. Even former president Jimmy Carter has talked to the minister about this case. The minister has a signed a waiver in her possession saying she can speak freely about this case.

Why is the minister willing to send Mr. Karimzada back to a certain death in Afghanistan?

[Lucienne Robillard, Liberal, Minister of Citizenship and Immigration]

Mr. Speaker, the final decision in this case has not been taken yet. I do not have the intention to discuss this case publicly.

Millennium Scholarships

[Paul Crête, Bloc, Kamouraska—Rivière-Du-Loup—Témiscouata—Les Basques, QC]

Mr. Speaker, while the government is doggedly ramming through its bill on millennium scholarships, negotiations between Quebec City and Ottawa to find common ground on the issue have just broken off.

Will the Acting Prime Minister admit that neither the Minister of Human Resources Development nor his negotiators were mandated to amend the bill in order to accommodate Quebec's concerns and that, as a result, federal negotiators were just going through the motions in order to stall for time?

[Stéphane Dion, Liberal, President of the Queen's Privy Council for Canada and Minister of Intergovernmental Affairs]

Mr. Speaker, yesterday, the provincial education minister, Mrs. Marois, said “I asked Mr. Pettigrew if he was prepared to implement the proposal made by the Liberal opposition in Quebec City”.

I wish to give the House two pieces of good news: the first is that, after examining the proposal made by the official opposition in the National Assembly, the Government of Canada concluded that it was interesting, very interesting; the second is that it will not be necessary to amend the bill in order to give effect to the proposal.

[Paul Crête, Bloc, Kamouraska—Rivière-Du-Loup—Témiscouata—Les Basques, QC]

Mr. Speaker, the Liberal opposition itself, in its proposal, called for the bill to be amended.

What else can we call federal intransigence on this issue but flagrant bad faith?