Debates of June 9th, 1998

International Federation For Parent Education

[Jacques Saada, Liberal, Brossard—La Prairie, QC]

Mr. Speaker, on May 16 I had the pleasure of speaking in Tunis to the International Federation for Parent Education.

This symposium was attended by representatives of about 40 different countries and the theme addressed was: Parents and globalization: their contribution to protecting children from its dangers.

In particular, I addressed issues relating to children's rights, child labour, child soldiers and antipersonnel mines, which, as we know, claim large numbers of young victims every year.

I called attention to Canada's heavy involvement in these areas, and stressed the fundamental role played by civilian society, the NGOs in particular, in addressing this problem.

I would like to congratulate the International Federation for Parent Education for taking the initiative to hold this symposium. My best wishes to the federation and its executive.

Hepatitis C

[Preston Manning, Reform, Leader of the Opposition]

Mr. Speaker, yesterday a student asked the Prime Minister why he was abandoning the victims of hepatitis C infected through tainted blood before 1986. The Prime Minister answered by saying that from the government's standpoint these innocent victims were really no different than people who got cancer from cigarettes.

Would the Prime Minister mind explaining to the House exactly how he thinks these are the same?

[Jean Chrétien, Liberal, Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, I explained that there was a period between 1986 and 1990 when the government was negligent and could have done something which was not done. In terms of the victims of other kinds of problems that arise in the health care system, we have to look at the government's responsibility. I gave an example. There are a lot of people among those who were infected with hepatitis C.

The Reform Party has two types of compassion. It has compassion for those who got hepatitis C through blood transfusions, but it has no compassion for the people who got hepatitis C by other means.

[Preston Manning, Reform, Leader of the Opposition]

Mr. Speaker, people who smoke cigarettes know about the risks of cancer. It is written on the label. These hepatitis C victims were infected innocently. They trusted the government to make sure the blood supply was secure and when they went into a hospital for surgery they had no idea that they would come out with a deadly disease.

How is it that the Prime Minister cannot see the difference when everyone else can?

[Jean Chrétien, Liberal, Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, I am sorry, he is talking about people who got hepatitis C through blood transfusions before 1986. I am asking him about the people who got hepatitis C in other ways. If it is not a matter of responsibility, then it becomes a matter of compassion. Why does compassion exist for some and not for others in the head of the Leader of the Opposition?

[Preston Manning, Reform, Leader of the Opposition]

Mr. Speaker, it is no wonder this issue is confusing. Day after day the Prime Minister has claimed that the working group of officials is trying to find a way to help compensate these victims and he has pretended to be sincere. Now it comes out that the Prime Minister thinks these victims are no more deserving of government compensation than cigarette addicts or junkies on illegal drugs.

If that is what the Prime Minister really thinks about these victims, is it not obvious that this working group and this supposed negotiation is a complete farce?

[Jean Chrétien, Liberal, Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, in reply to the previous question, what about those who started smoking before there was any notice on cigarette packages who have cancer today?

At this moment 10 provinces with the federal government have arrived at a solution to the problem—

[Some hon. members]

Oh, oh.

[The Speaker]

Colleagues, I think all of us not only want to hear the questions, but also the answers. I intervened because I could not hear the response of the Prime Minister. If the Prime Minister wants to continue his answer I invite him to do so.

[Jean Chrétien, Liberal, Saint-Maurice, QC]

Mr. Speaker, I just want to say that the same people who managed to make a deal together, the 10 provinces and the federal government, are still meeting to find a solution.

We care about the victims. But that does not mean that everybody who has hep C should necessarily receive compensation. However, they should receive services from the government because they are sick and they deserve services from the government.

[Grant Hill, Reform, Macleod, AB]

Mr. Speaker, the long hot summer for the Liberals has started. A student in Regina just asked the question “How can you justify not compensating everyone?”

The Prime Minister cannot see the difference between a person smoking voluntarily and someone going into the hospital innocently with that dripping of tainted blood that his regulators supplied.

The Prime Minister had better explain why he does not understand the difference. There is a difference.

[Jean Chrétien, Liberal, Prime Minister]

I recognize that the previous government in 1986 made a mistake. It was Krever who said that, not me.

When there is no knowledge by the government, the notion of responsibility is extremely important. The money that the government spends is not the money of the Prime Minister, it is the money of the taxpayers—

[The Speaker]

Please, my colleagues, I appeal to you, in fairness, to listen to the question and to listen to the answer. The hon. member for Macleod.

[Grant Hill, Reform, Macleod, AB]

Mr. Speaker, we are talking about the difference between accidental and voluntary.

The Prime Minister started out by saying that drug addicts were the same. Now he says that smokers are the same. What will it be next? People who get an insect bite and accidentally get infected? Is he going to compensate them too?

[Jean Chrétien, Liberal, Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, that is exactly the point we are making. We are making the point that we are responsible. Suddenly, the same people who want to cut all the social programs find a cause to try to gain votes with that. They are just trying to score political points and they are completely irresponsible.

Health

[Gilles Duceppe, Bloc, Laurier—Sainte-Marie, QC]

Mr. Speaker, yesterday the Minister of Health contended that Quebec was the primary source of the problems in the health care system.

Quebec is far from the only province facing problems. In Manitoba, the sick are having to seek treatment in mobile hospitals in the United States. In Newfoundland, the military is having to fly in to help out with an overload of emergency cases. There are any number of examples throughout Canada.

Is the minister so tuned out and so insensitive he cannot see that the federal government's $6 billion in cuts have threatened the health care system not only in Quebec but in every province in Canada?

[Paul Martin, Liberal, Minister of Finance]

Mr. Speaker, between 1993 and 1998, in cumulative terms, the value of tax points increased by $2.1 billion in Quebec alone. Equalization payments increased by $1 billion, and the drop in interest rates should enable Quebec alone to save $1.4 billion in debt servicing. That is how things stand.

[Gilles Duceppe, Bloc, Laurier—Sainte-Marie, QC]

Mr. Speaker, perhaps the Minister of Finance should tell us whether the drop in the Canadian dollar also helps repay the debt. Perhaps he should look at the studies done by the C.D. Howe Institute, which show that the average Canadian family pays Ottawa $652 more than it gets.

I would like the minister—the new Minister of Health competing with the current one for the leadership—to explain how the cash payment dropped from $678 per person to $386 per person, nearly 50% less. These are the Minister of Finance's figures.

[Paul Martin, Liberal, Minister of Finance]

Mr. Speaker, the member should know that this year, for the first time in ten years, there has been an increase in the average family's disposable income.

That means that, because of this government's economic policies, the economic recovery is truly taking place. The recovery is a reality and Quebeckers and Canadians across the country are benefiting.

Today, Professor Marchon of the University of Montreal released his study, which indicates that, of all the G-7 countries, Canada has the best economic management—

[The Speaker]

The hon. member for Roberval.

[Michel Gauthier, Bloc, Roberval, QC]

Mr. Speaker, it must impress hospital patients to hear the Minister of Finance telling them how things stand, but omitting a few details.

An Angus Reid poll published by the Canadian Healthcare Association—

[Some hon. members]

Oh, oh.

[The Speaker]

Order, please. The hon. member for Roberval has the floor.

[Michel Gauthier, Bloc, Roberval, QC]

Mr. Speaker, an Angus Reid poll revealed that the 61% of Canadians who thought we had a good health system has dropped to 37% as a result of this government's cuts.

I ask the Minister of Health if he is still saying that it is because of the poor decisions made by Jean Rochon that only 37% of Canadians now think we have a decent health care system?

[Paul Martin, Liberal, Minister of Finance]

Mr. Speaker, the member for Roberval mentions Dr. Rochon, but two can play at that. Dr. Rochon said, and I quote “It has been over two years since we began to transform the health and social services system in order to adjust to the evolving needs of the public, to take advantage of new technologies, to bring services closer to the public, and to shift the emphasis to prevention and health promotion”. It was not a money issue for Dr. Rochon.