Debates of Sept. 23rd, 1998

Apec Summit

[Andy Scott, Liberal, Solicitor General of Canada]

Mr. Speaker, once again the hon. member displays a real lack of understanding as to the process in place. The public complaints commission established by her government, the last government, was established specifically so Canadians would have recourse. They have it and I feel strongly that we need to protect the integrity of that process so that we can get to the truth.

[Jim Abbott, Reform, Kootenay—Columbia, BC]

Mr. Speaker, so far the Prime Minister has been hiding behind the solicitor general under the assumption of the Canadian public that this is actually going to be a public inquiry. It is not. It is under the public complaints commission of the RCMP act. It has no ability to be able to go after the Prime Minister and the political interference.

I ask the solicitor general to quit guarding and hiding the Prime Minister under his assertions and do the right thing, a judicial inquiry so we can uncover this affair.

[Andy Scott, Liberal, Solicitor General of Canada]

Mr. Speaker, I would ask the hon. member to quit undermining the integrity of the public complaints commission and let it do its job.

[Jim Abbott, Reform, Kootenay—Columbia, BC]

Mr. Speaker, it will be of interest to this House to realize that under the Canada Evidence Act, which this inquiry is working under, in section 37 a minister of the crown may object to disclosure of information.

What kind of an inquiry are we going to have if the minister, the Prime Minister, decides that he wants to withhold information? This minister has a responsibility as the solicitor general. He is not just a cabinet minister. He is the Solicitor General of Canada for all Canadians.

[Andy Scott, Liberal, Solicitor General of Canada]

That is quite right, Mr. Speaker, and I am very much aware of that. That is the reason I am protecting this process from the slams it is receiving from the other side.

[Michel Gauthier, Bloc, Roberval, QC]

Mr. Speaker, we recently learned that the members of dictator Suharto's entourage were arrested, heavily armed, and even wearing commando fatigues.

My question for the government is the following: Does the fact that these people feel so free to behave as they wish in Canada not indicate that the Minister of Foreign Affairs went too far in the guarantees he gave Mr. Suharto and his entourage that nothing would be done to make his visit in any way unpleasant for him?

[Andy Scott, Liberal, Solicitor General of Canada]

Mr. Speaker, the security arrangements around the APEC conference were the responsibility of the RCMP. The RCMP have a system to do an inquiry into the actions of the RCMP. That is the inquiry that is in play right now. It deals specifically with the kinds of allegations being put. If we will allow them to do their job I think the interests of Canadians will be served as was intended when the PCC was struck.

[Michel Gauthier, Bloc, Roberval, QC]

Mr. Speaker, just as, in our opinion, the Minister of Foreign Affairs went too far in meeting the demands of Suharto and his gang, did not the Prime Minister also go too far in his directives to the RCMP, which authorized its officers, they claim, to arrest young Canadian students merely wishing to exercise their civil rights before they had even done anything?

[Andy Scott, Liberal, Solicitor General of Canada]

Mr. Speaker, the security arrangements are the responsibility of the RCMP and the RCMP are being investigated in the broadest possible way by the public complaints commission. We will get to the truth, as Canadians expect. This is an institution that was struck by this House and I think it deserves the respect of this House.

The Senate

[Deborah Grey, Reform, Edmonton North, AB]

Mr. Speaker, for months now the Prime Minister has treated Ralph Klein and Alberta's Senate election as if they were a joke. The final slap in the face came last week when he appointed a senator just weeks before a vote. The Prime Minister says he believes in a triple E Senate. Really?

Our candidates are here today. They are off and running. Can the Prime Minister name one tiny thing that he has done since he became Prime Minister to bring about real Senate reform, just one thing?

[Jean Chrétien, Liberal, Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, I travelled through Canada and I went to Alberta during the Charlottetown accord to ask Albertans to vote for the Charlottetown accord so we could have an elected Senate. The opposition I faced when I was there was from a bunch of protesters from the Reform Party.

[Deborah Grey, Reform, Edmonton North, AB]

Mr. Speaker, just to refresh the Prime Minister's memory, the Charlottetown accord was in the fall of 1992. He became Prime Minister in the fall of 1993.

I will repeat my question in light of the fact that he continues to talk about the Charlottetown accord which he knows full well would never have given a triple E Senate.

Since he became Prime Minister in 1993, let him name for this House and our Senate candidates here today one tiny thing that he has done to accomplish real Senate reform.

[Jean Chrétien, Liberal, Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, everybody knows that to really reform the Senate, not just half baked propositions like this one, to have an elected Senate, a triple E Senate, means that it would be equal across the land and effective. We need real reform, which needs the consent of the provincial governments. We cannot do it alone.

We had a great chance at the time of the Charlottetown accord and the Reform Party blew it.

Canadian Economy

[Yvan Loubier, Bloc, Saint-Hyacinthe—Bagot, QC]

Mr. Speaker, as all the private sector analysts are lowering their forecasts for Canada's economic growth and Statistics Canada is telling us that once again, in the month of August, the situation worsened, the Minister of Finance and the Governor of the Bank of Canada are the only ones saying that everything is fine.

Rather than rejecting all suggestions about stimulating economic growth and ruling out all possibility of recession in 1999, should the Minister of Finance not agree to the idea of a special budget providing for tax cuts and increased social transfers?

[Paul Martin, Liberal, Minister of Finance]

Mr. Speaker, it is certainly our intention to cut taxes in the next budget, just as we did in the last budget. However, it is certainly not our intention to accept the Bloc Quebecois' suggestion.

If I may, I would simply quote Claude Piché, a journalist with La Presse , who said in reference to the Bloc Quebecois' position that, by recalling the Commons in an emergency session in the middle of summer, “the government really could find no better way to project an image of disarray and lack of planning. This sort of spectacle will not help the dollar”. So much for the suggestion of the Bloc Quebecois.

[Yvan Loubier, Bloc, Saint-Hyacinthe—Bagot, QC]

Mr. Speaker, quote for quote: the Governor of the Bank of Canada said this morning that he had underestimated the effects of the monetary crisis. I think the minister should take note. The minister was asked to table a special budget providing for tax cuts and increased social transfers as soon as Parliament resumed.

Does the minister realize that, if he does not act now, he will be party to a recession in Canada within some ten months?

[Paul Martin, Liberal, Minister of Finance]

Mr. Speaker, once again, I am not saying you should take my word for it. I would, however, quote Vincent Marissal of La Presse , who wrote: “Economists think that the cure proposed by the Bloc Quebecois is worse than the disease affecting the loonie”.

The Senate

[Rahim Jaffer, Reform, Edmonton Strathcona, AB]

Mr. Speaker, we know the Prime Minister has done nothing since he was elected to bring us closer to a triple E Senate. When Premier Klein tried, the Prime Minister insulted him and the whole province of Alberta. The Prime Minister's excuse is he wants to reform the Senate but elections just are not enough.

If he really does support Senate reform then where is the Prime Minister's plan for a triple E Senate? Our plan is up there in the gallery.

[Jean Chrétien, Liberal, Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, the election promoted by the Reform Party was so ludicrous that neither the Tories federally or provincially, the NDP federally or provincially, nor the Liberals federally or provincially had a candidate because they knew it was just a charade because that party is completely empty of new ideas.

[Rahim Jaffer, Reform, Edmonton Strathcona, AB]

Mr. Speaker, it is obvious the Prime Minister is not serious about Albertans' concerns at all. I guess he expects Premier Klein to snap to attention to all his pet issues while Albertans' dreams go down the toilet.

I ask the justice minister, the so-called minister for Alberta, what concrete steps is she taking to respect the wishes of Albertans and create real Senate reform?

[Jean Chrétien, Liberal, Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, the Constitution of Canada gives the prime minister the authority to name senators. I was very happy to use this to name more women than men to the Senate. I have named people of different religions and different colours. I have given them the chance to be in the other house.

I am here to defend the Canadian Constitution, to defend tradition; a Quebecker, a Francophone defending a British tradition.

Montreal Convention Centre

[Antoine Dubé, Bloc, Lévis, QC]

Mr. Speaker, action in the matter of the Montreal Convention Centre has become urgent.

All of the business world is calling for the federal government to do its share in the expansion project. With every passing day, Montreal is at risk of losing conference business, and meanwhile the Secretary of State says he is looking at an alternative.

Since the Minister of Industry said there are no more funds available, can the secretary of state responsible for regional development tell us what alternative he is looking at, and what deadline he has set for making a decision?

[Martin Cauchon, Liberal, Secretary of State (Economic Development Agency of Canada for the Regions of Quebec)]

Mr. Speaker, at the risk of repeating myself, I join with my colleague, the Minister of Industry, in saying that there is no vehicle available at the present time for intervening in a project as significant as the Montreal Convention Centre. There are similar projects just about everywhere in Canada.

I would like to repeat, however, that a rather strong impression is created by the fact that the Government of Quebec made no use of any of the funding from the appropriate vehicle for such a vital project, when this government has invested $630 million in the province of Quebec via the Canada-Quebec infrastructure program.

Notwithstanding this poor judgment by the Government of Quebec, we shall make every effort to find alternative solutions, since an important project is at stake.

President Of South Africa

[Marlene Jennings, Liberal, Notre-Dame-de-Grâce—Lachine, QC]

Mr. Speaker, as all members of Parliament are already aware, the President of South Africa is arriving today for an official visit.

I would like to know what Canada intends to do to mark—

[Some hon. members]

Oh, oh.