Debates of Sept. 29th, 1998

Employment Insurance

[Pierre Pettigrew, Liberal, Minister of Human Resources Development]

Mr. Speaker, what our government has done is put a lot more money in the pockets of the unemployed in terms of active measures to get them into the labour market.

We have invested more than any other government in training. We reached with the Government of Quebec an agreement on manpower under which we will transfer $500 million annually to the province to provide training.

We have established a modern system adapted to today's labour market and we intend to continue serving Canadians well.

Social Insurance Numbers

[John Williams, Reform, St. Albert, AB]

Mr. Speaker, the auditor general tabled his report today with the usual stories of mismanagement in government. We find that there are millions of social insurance cards circulating in Canada with no legitimate owners. In a sample test of 3,600 cards the auditor general found that one-third were being used to defraud the government of millions of dollars.

My question is for the Minister of National Revenue. Will he tell Canadians how many millions of dollars we are paying on these fraudulent cards and why he has not stopped this abuse already?

[Pierre Pettigrew, Liberal, Minister of Human Resources Development]

Mr. Speaker, we have read the auditor general's report very carefully and we agree completely with the auditor general's recommendations. We need to improve the integrity of the social insurance number. My department has already begun to work on every one of the recommendations of the auditor general, both the recommendations on the social insurance number and on the registry. We intend to continue to have good collaboration with him.

[John Williams, Reform, St. Albert, AB]

Mr. Speaker, all I can say is thank goodness for the auditor general, but I do not know what to say about the government. It issued temporary cards with no expiry date. It has issued 600,000 temporary cards, yet there are only 200,000 legitimate users in Canada.

We have already heard the minister say they are going to fix this, but why has this not already been fixed? We have spent millions of dollars paying these fraudulent claims which should have been stopped years ago. When is the government going to be accountable for that type of inaction?

[Pierre Pettigrew, Liberal, Minister of Human Resources Development]

Mr. Speaker, we have already begun work on the integrity of the system. It is very important that we actually improve it. We are following up on the recommendations of the auditor general.

As the member knows, much of the information comes from the provinces, for instance when a Canadian citizen dies. Along with the provincial governments we are improving the situation. They are feeding information into our systems so the kind of anomalies and frauds the hon. member is referring to will not happen too often.

We are working hard at improving the system alongside the provinces and I am confident that it will be better very shortly.

[Serge Cardin, Bloc, Sherbrooke, QC]

Mr. Speaker, according to Human Resources Development Canada data, there are more than 311,000 people over 100 years old in Canada. It would also seem that there are three times more temporary social insurance numbers than there are temporary residents in Canada.

Does the Minister of Human Resources Development realize that, by failing in the management of social insurance numbers, he is becoming a party to real or potential frauds?

[The Speaker]

The question, as it stands, is not acceptable. I would ask the hon. member to please move to his supplementary.

[Serge Cardin, Bloc, Sherbrooke, QC]

Mr. Speaker, not only should there be an RCMP investigation to shed light on this issue, but will the minister recognize it is his duty to explain to the public why it was only after the auditor general became involved that it was discovered that the minister had lost control over social insurance numbers?

[Pierre Pettigrew, Liberal, Minister of Human Resources Development]

Mr. Speaker, my department has been working very hard on this issue for quite some time now.

I want to assure this House and the Canadian public that we totally agree with the auditor general's recommendation that the integrity of the social insurance numbers and log must be improved.

My department has already initiated discussions with the provinces among others. We should be getting a great deal of information. For instance, when a death occurs, we will now be getting more information, through the partnership we are in process of creating, which will make our system more effective.

Apec Summit

[Bob Mills, Reform, Red Deer, AB]

Mr. Speaker, yesterday the foreign affairs minister said “Canada is very concerned about the use of the Internal Security Act to restrict the freedom of speech and the freedom of assembly in Malaysia”. He was talking about Malaysia.

Why did he not express those same sentiments of freedom of speech and freedom of assembly when it came to APEC?

[Lloyd Axworthy, Liberal, Minister of Foreign Affairs]

Mr. Speaker, the fact of the matter is, that is exactly what we did during APEC.

This government provided substantial support to ensure that a people's summit was held. The people's summit brought together Canadians and people from around the world to discuss APEC, those who were in favour and those who were against. The people's summit had an opportunity to present its findings to ministers and to the Prime Minister. It was the most open people's summit ever held under APEC.

[Bob Mills, Reform, Red Deer, AB]

Mr. Speaker, a long, long time ago, when the foreign affairs minister was a young man, he believed in human rights and democracy. When he was a kid he even marched in civil rights marches in Alabama. Back then there was a bigoted sheriff. His name was Bull Connor. He sicced the dogs on the protesters.

What happened? Why did this 1960s hippie turn into a 1990s sheriff Bull Axworthy?

[Lloyd Axworthy, Liberal, Minister of Foreign Affairs]

Mr. Speaker, I have to admit that at heart I really am still a hippie.

Scrapie

[Hélène Alarie, Bloc, Louis-Hébert, QC]

Mr. Speaker, with each passing day, the sheep producers in Quebec become increasingly distressed. They are losing money and hope. Each day's delay brings a pile of worries.

Does the minister intend finally to give them some help and what does he plan to do for all those whose herds have been infected with scrapie since January 1997?

[Lyle Vanclief, Liberal, Minister of Agriculture and Agri-Food]

Mr. Speaker, as I continually inform the hon. member, we are working with the unfortunate incident of the scrapie disease in the sheep flock in the province of Quebec in as equitable manner as we have in every other province. We are compensating them in the same way as we would with reportable diseases across Canada.

To date we have already compensated the affected producers to the tune of over $2 million.

Steel Industry

[Carmen Provenzano, Liberal, Sault Ste. Marie, ON]

Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Minister for International Trade.

Is the minister aware that the Canadian steel industry is being seriously threatened by unprecedented steel imports at dumping prices from Japan, Korea, Russia and other foreign producers? If so, what action is the minister prepared to take to protect this important sector of our economy?

[Sergio Marchi, Liberal, Minister for International Trade]

Mr. Speaker, let me thank the hon. member for his question as well as for his leadership vis-à-vis Algoma Steel in Sault Ste. Marie.

I am certainly aware of the difficulties faced by our steel producers given the excess capacity in the world market. I recently met with the Canadian Steel Association, which is working on joint proposals with other industries in the NAFTA partners.

I assure the member and the House that the Canadian government will continue to work with the association as well as with our NAFTA partners to come up with the right remedies.

Apec Summit

[Deborah Grey, Reform, Edmonton North, AB]

Mr. Speaker, a purely riveting statement from another Liberal. Even hippies at heart should have the right to protest peacefully.

I would like to make a comment about this foreign affairs minister who supposedly supports Canadian values of free speech and democracy when he is travelling around the world, but at home it is a very—

[Some hon. members]

Oh, oh.

[The Speaker]

The hon. member for Edmonton North.

[Deborah Grey, Reform, Edmonton North, AB]

This foreign affairs minister talks about free speech and democracy all around the world but just does not happen to do it at home.

Why is it that he cannot practice at home what he preaches abroad?

[Lloyd Axworthy, Liberal, Minister of Foreign Affairs]

Mr. Speaker, I take it that this is a question coming from the resident biker of the House of Commons.

[Some hon. members]

Oh, oh.

[The Speaker]

Perhaps we could leave our outside activities out of the House of Commons.

[Lloyd Axworthy, Liberal, Winnipeg South Centre, MB]

Yes, Mr. Speaker, I would be more than happy to. I hope members will understand on this very crucial question that during the APEC meetings the Government of Canada went to great lengths first to hold a year long consultation inviting Canadians from all walks of life to participate in exactly what they thought the direction of APEC should be.

Second, we supported a people's summit.

Third, we told all the leaders and their delegations that there would be demonstrations and that we would establish the proper sort of setting in which Canadians could express themselves. Furthermore, we maintain that right of free speech not only everywhere in the world but here in Canada.