Debates of Sept. 30th, 1998

Employment Insurance

[John Williams, Reform, St. Albert, AB]

Mr. Speaker, I am glad to see the easy questions are from that side and the hard ones are from this side.

Yesterday the Minister of Human Resources Development said he will do this and he will do that to fix the social insurance number fiasco. He has not done anything so far.

Will the minister tell the House why his department has been accepting birth certificates off the Internet, why his department has been issuing multiple social insurance numbers to criminals, why his has department been paying illegal benefits to rip-off artists and sticking a multimillion dollar—

[The Speaker]

The hon. parliamentary secretary.

[Bonnie Brown, Liberal, Parliamentary Secretary to Minister of Human Resources Development]

Mr. Speaker, despite the member's protests we do agree with the auditor general's recommendations that came forward yesterday. As a matter of fact, we have co-operated with him in the production of information on which he based his report. We have already begun working on those recommendations.

One of the problems is that many of those persons who have the extra cards are deceased. Since the provinces are an important source of vital statistics such as death statistics we have been working with them and hope to work further with them in cleaning up the list and restoring the—

[The Speaker]

The hon. member for Hochelaga—Maisonneuve.

Chilean Refugees

[Réal Ménard, Bloc, Hochelaga—Maisonneuve, QC]

Mr. Speaker, the federal government is directly responsible for the situation several Chilean families facing expulsion are now finding themselves in.

By waiving the visa requirement for Chilean nationals from January 1995 to June 1996, Ottawa attracted 3,595 Chileans.

My question is for the Minister of Immigration. Since she is personally responsible for the problems these people are now confronted to, will the minister grant the Comité de soutien des Chiliens its three requests: a moratorium on deportations, financial support for resettling and diplomatic follow-up—

[The Speaker]

The hon. Minister of Citizenship and Immigration.

[Lucienne Robillard, Liberal, Minister of Citizenship and Immigration]

Mr. Speaker, Canada is true to its humanitarian tradition in dealing with anyone who comes to Canada to seek refugee status. All these people received independent hearings but, unfortunately, many saw their claims denied.

We are currently working very closely with the Government of Quebec, which is in the process of screening some of these people. It is clear however that they will have to leave the country so they can apply as independent immigrants.

I do hope they will leave our country of their own free will.

Anti-Smoking Programs

[Judy Wasylycia-Leis, NDP, Winnipeg North Centre, MB]

Mr. Speaker, the health minister wrote to the House in response to a question we had on the order paper for more than a year that for the financial year 1997-98, $200,000 was put aside for anti-smoking programs aimed at young Canadians. That is $19.8 million short of the Liberal red book promise of $20 million per year. In that same year a quarter of a million young Canadians got hooked on smoking.

Will the minister commit to spending the full $40 million for this year and last? Will he do it now on programs that will save young people's—

[The Speaker]

The hon. Minister of Health.

[Allan Rock, Liberal, Minister of Health]

Mr. Speaker, the government has already committed that in the coming years in the course of this mandate we will be devoting tens of millions of dollars to efforts to not only enforce the Tobacco Act, which makes it an offence to sell tobacco to children, but to persuade young people not to start smoking. That is going to be the focus of our efforts.

This is going to involve money. It is going to involve effort. It is going to involve the effort of every member of the government on the single most important public health issue facing Canadians today.

Veterans Affairs

[Elsie Wayne, Progressive Conservative, Saint John, NB]

Mr. Speaker, the Minister of Veterans Affairs is about to embark on a two week trip to celebrate the 45th anniversary of the ceasefire in Korea. I sincerely hope these veterans have a good trip as we are all very proud of their efforts.

However, in April the minister promised in committee to bring forth legislation that would make merchant navy vets equal with other vets. Now it is the end of September and there is still no legislation.

Is the minister prepared to table his bill and meet with the merchant navy vets who are on hunger strike to discuss their concerns before he leaves on Friday so we can bring everything to an end?

[Fred Mifflin, Liberal, Minister of Veterans Affairs and Secretary of State (Atlantic Canada Opportunities Agency)]

Mr. Speaker, I met with the veterans on two occasions in the last week. The bill will be before the House before the end of the year.

Presence In The Gallery

[The Speaker]

Colleagues, today, in a very personal way, is a very important day for the speakership and I will tell you why. We have in our gallery today four former Speakers of this House.

I will introduce them, one by one, but I would like you to hold your applause until I have introduced all four former Speakers.

Mr. Speaker from 1963 to 1966, the hon. Alan Macnaughton. Mr. Speaker from 1974 to 1980, the hon. James Jerome. Mr. Speaker from 1983 to 1984, the hon. Lloyd Francis. And Mr. Speaker from 1984 to 1986, the hon. John Bosley.

Welcome, Speakers.

[Some hon. members]

Hear, hear.

[The Speaker]

I have notice of a question of privilege and notice of a point of order. I am going to handle those after tributes.

Today we are going to pay tribute to a former Speaker of this House who died last July. I refer of course to Mr. Speaker Lucien Lamoureux. His family is here today in the gallery.

I will recognize the Right Hon. Prime Minister.

The Late Hon. Lucien Lamoureux

[Jean Chrétien, Liberal, Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, last summer, we were all saddened by the death of the Hon. Lucien Lamoureux.

This learned and distinguished Franco-Ontarian was a leader in his community and one of the great Speakers of the House of Commons.

Lucien Lamoureux was first elected to the House of Commons in 1962, as the member for Stormont—Dundas—Glengarry, and he soon made a name for himself.

He was appointed acting speaker of the House in 1963. After having proved his mettle for three years, he was elected Speaker by acclamation in 1966. He was again re-elected Speaker in 1968 and in 1972. His nine year tenure as Speaker was an eventful, at times electrifying period.

Twice he presided over a minority government, one in which there were five parties, and the government and the official opposition were separated by just two seats, adding fuel to the fires of parliamentary debate that, as you know, Mr. Speaker, are heated even in more stable settings.

The issues of the day were divisive, positions were deeply felt and the tone of exchanges was often angry and personal. Through it all Lucien presided with dignity, diplomacy and wisdom.

He was able to maintain order and decorum. In doing so, he earned the respect and trust of members from all parties. He was, in every way, a model for his successors, a gifted Speaker, an expert on our parliamentary procedure and traditions, a far-sighted administrator to whom we owe a professional development program from which all his successors in the Chair have benefited. He was a gracious host and an impressive emissary.

Lucien Lamoureux was a man of great intensity, who sought excellence in everything he did. He drove himself hard and he made many personal sacrifices. More often than not, he achieved his goals.

However, he was also a man of great humility and humanity who disdained any kind of pretence, with the gift of making anyone feel at ease from the most distinguished dignitary to the most junior employees of the House.

After he retired in 1974, he continued to serve Canada well, as ambassador to Portugal and to Belgium.

I have lost a friend and former colleague, and the House of Commons has lost one of its great parliamentarians. Canada has lost the man who embodied the most noble of our traditions of service to the community.

We will all miss him, and I offer my condolences to the members of his family who are here today.

[John Reynolds, Reform, West Vancouver—Sunshine Coast, BC]

Mr. Speaker, I am honoured to participate on behalf of the official opposition in this tribute to the Hon. Lucien Lamoureux, the esteemed gentleman who occupied your chair from 1966 to 1974.

The word distinguished does not seem adequate in describing Mr. Lamoureux. Perhaps there is not a word in our lexicon that truly captures the nature and the capacity of this man.

From the time of his formative years Mr. Lamoureux was destined for greatness. He would stand out amongst his peers.

Born in Ottawa in 1920, Mr. Lamoureux attended the University of Ottawa where he earned a Master's degree in philosophy before studying law at Osgoode Hall. After graduating in 1945 he went to work for Lionel Chevrier, a cabinet minister in the governments of Mackenzie King and Louis St. Laurent.

In 1954 he took a break from politics and opened a law practice in Cornwall. His roots ran deep in the Liberal Party. His work in Cornwall on behalf of the separate school board, the Children's Aid Society and the Community Chest were without equal.

The urge to serve at the federal level was compelling for Mr. Lamoureux. He sought federal office and was elected as MP for Stormont in 1962. He immediately exhibited an interest and an ability in the rules and procedures of the House. Always a measured and reflective man, his interest seemed a natural fit.

When the Liberal Party came to power in 1963 he was appointed the Deputy Speaker. He attended only two meetings of the Liberal caucus before deciding to withdraw in order to emphasize the impartial nature of his position. Integrity, balance and fairness were hallmarks that would define this gentleman's nature in the time that followed.

Following the 1965 general election, Prime Minister Lester Pearson nominated Mr. Lamoureux for the role of Speaker. Mr. Lamoureux took the chair in 1966 and served as Speaker for eight years until 1974.

The real statement of this gentleman's ability was the fact that he presided over two minority parliaments during his eight years as Speaker. As Mr. Speaker can appreciate, this would be an onerous time for even the most serene individual. Mr. Lamoureux carried it off with the usual aplomb, balance and calm. It could have been an explosive time, particularly in February 1968 when the Pearson government lost a vote at third reading on a financial bill. After much representation from all sides, Speaker Lamoureux was able to avoid disorder until adjournment hour at 10.00 p.m., a statement to his ability, rationale and his great knowledge of the rules.

By April 1968 Mr. Lamoureux had decided he would not fight another election as a member of a political party. He asked for an all-party agreement to support his candidacy as an independent. Prime Minister Trudeau and opposition leader Robert Stanfield, in order to keep Mr. Lamoureux as Speaker, did not nominate candidates against him. Mr. Lamoureux won a landslide victory over his NDP opponent.

Before the 1972 general election Mr. Lamoureux announced that he would again run as an independent and won again in his riding of Stormont. Once again he was Speaker. By April 1974 he had been the Speaker in the chair for 3,010 days, surpassing the record held by Rudolphe Lemieux who was Speaker from 1922 to 1930.

In September 1974 he retired from politics and was shortly afterward appointed as ambassador to Belgium from 1974 to 1980. After that he was appointed as ambassador to Portugal from 1980 to 1985. Mr. Lamoureux said at the time of his retirement from politics “I believe I have done my share in serving my country and I will now leave it up to other men”.

I would like to add a more personal observation on this excellent individual for Canada.

I was elected to this House in 1972 and had the honour of being recognized for the first time by Speaker Lamoureux on January 9, 1973 in question period. His reputation of impartiality was renowned and he was revered for fairness and objectivity by every single parliamentarian of the day. I will never forget coming to this House and watching him in operation.

Columnists during Mr. Lamoureux's days as Speaker and columnists of today recognize him as the most adroit and neutral arbiter of competing politicians. Some have called him the best speaker in modern times. While his style, wit and nature have been emulated, they have seldom been duplicated.

I had the honour of serving as Speaker of the Legislative Assembly of British Columbia from 1987 to 1989. I can admit that I drew upon examples of the rulings and temperament of Speaker Lamoureux more than once during my Speaker's role.

Mr. Speaker, you know in your capacity and in the manner you too strive for impartiality that some days your very sinew is tested in the job of Speaker. It is an onerous job, but a richly rewarding one.

It is fitting that Mr. Lamoureux received the Order of Canada before his passing. It was another distinction bestowed on this most deserving of gentlemen.

Mr. Lamoureux is the benchmark from which all others in the Speaker's chair will be judged.

To his wife, Elizabeth, daughter Isabelle and stepchildren Emmanuel and Karen, I extend on behalf of Her Majesty's loyal official opposition our sincerest condolences. Lucien Lamoureux is one of those parliamentarians and Speakers that comes but once in a lifetime.

[Madeleine Dalphond-Guiral, Bloc, Laval Centre, QC]

Mr. Speaker, allow me, on behalf of myself and my colleagues in the Bloc Quebecois, to offer our sincere condolences to the family and friends of a great parliamentarian, Lucien Lamoureux, who passed away on July 16 at the age of 77.

Mr. Lamoureux was born in Ottawa in 1920. He studied philosophy at the University of Ottawa and went on to earn a law degree from Osgoode Hall in Toronto in 1945. His first experience in the House of Commons was as assistant to Lionel Chevrier when he was a minister in the governments of Mackenzie King and Louis St-Laurent. In 1954, Mr. Lamoureux left Parliament Hill to practice law in Cornwall.

He returned to the House of Commons in 1962 as the Liberal member representing the people of Stormont—Dundas. He was re-elected in 1963 and appointed Deputy Speaker. Following the 1965 election, he became Speaker of the House and remained so until his retirement from politics in 1974.

During that time, he presided over 3,010 days of debate. He left his own mark on the Chair, because, in order to ensure the impartiality of the position of Speaker, he ran as an independent in the elections of 1968 and 1972 seeking the support of all parties. Both times he was re-elected with a strong majority.

In September 1974, he gave up active political life. He was appointed Canada's ambassador to Belgium and Luxembourg, a position he held until 1980. From 1980 to 1985, he served as ambassador to Portugal. After his retirement from public life, in 1985, he settled in Belgium.

Recently, Mr. Lamoureux was named an Officer of the Order of Canada, an honour he was to receive at the end of July.

Mr. Lamoureux spent many years of his life in the service of his fellow citizens and of this place of assembly.

His family and friends should be proud of his accomplishments during his career. It is an honour for me as a parliamentarian to pay tribute to this man who marked the history of the House of Commons.

[Lorne Nystrom, NDP, Qu'Appelle, SK]

Mr. Speaker, I want to add some personal observations of Mr. Lamoureux who passed away last summer.

People have given his biography in the House, that he was elected several times and was Speaker of the House for six years.

I was first elected in 1968 and when I came here Lucien Lamoureux was really revered as the model parliamentarian and the model Speaker that we could all emulate as parliamentarians in this country. He was extremely respected by all members of the House.

He was elected in 1962 and 1965, and I am told when he was made Speaker in 1965 he left the Liberal caucus to sit as an independent member to show the independence of the speakership, which was extremely important in those days. It was really a break in many ways from the tradition in this country.

Another observation that I had of him was the tremendous respect that people had for this man. We have had many good Speakers. We have an excellent Speaker in the House today. But I think Speaker Lamoureux is probably one of the greatest Speakers of all time. In fact former Prime Minister Pierre Trudeau said he was the greatest speaker since Confederation. I certainly have tremendous confidence in him and would certainly echo the remarks of former Prime Minister Pierre Trudeau.

Speaker Lamoureux also had a tremendous ability. It was the ability to calm this place, an ability to referee or adjudicate this place like none I had ever seen.

I remember the minority parliament in 1972-74. There was a two seat difference between the governing Liberals and the opposition Tories with the NDP holding the balance of power. We also had the Social Credit Party led by Mr. Caouette. Those were days of great tensions and great debates in the House. Mr. Lamoureux had tremendous respect. He was able to keep this place running very efficiently.

It was also a time of tremendous parliamentary giants: Pierre Trudeau, John Diefenbaker who sat right here, Tommy Douglas, David Lewis, Réal Caouette, many parliamentary giants, Stanley Knowles and Allan MacEachen to mention but a few. Mr. Lamoureux was able to rise to the occasion at all times and be a tremendous Speaker.

I had tremendous respect for him. On behalf of our party, I want to extend our sympathy and condolences to his family and to his friends. He has been an inspiration to all of us and has set a tone for all of us to follow, particularly the Speakers of this House.

[David Price, Progressive Conservative, Compton—Stanstead, QC]

Mr. Speaker, my colleagues in the Progressive Conservative caucus join with me in offering our most sincere condolences to the Lamoureux family.

The hon. Lucien Lamoureux made a great contribution to our country during his years of public service. His greatest mark, of course, was left as Speaker of this House.

He was actively involved in his party before his election as Speaker, and after his years in the House of Commons this proud Franco-Ontarian represented his country as Canadian ambassador, first to Belgium and then to Portugal.

Less than a year ago, I had the honour and pleasure of spending an hour in Mr. Lamoureux' company. In his capacity as honorary Colonel of the Canadian NATO contingent, he had welcomed me on my visit to the military base in Geilenkirchen, Germany. This title of honorary colonel was but one of many he received throughout his career. He was very proud of his responsibilities within NATO and spoke with great eloquence about our soldiers working so hard in another country.

Lucien Lamoureux was a legend in his own time. The standards of impartiality and integrity he imposed from the Chair of this House, and his stringent adherence to the rules while a representative in this House, left a path for his successors to follow. Following on the example he set, the House requires very high standards of its speakers.

Today I would like to thank the Lamoureux family for sharing him with Parliament and with this great country of Canada he loved so much. He left a great heritage, one of which his family can continue to be justly proud for many generations to come.

[The Speaker]

Dear colleagues, I wish to address my remarks directly to Lucien Lamoureux's children, Michel, Sylvie and Adèle, who are here today.

Obviously, I am speaking on behalf of my colleagues in the House of Commons, as well as on behalf of those here with us today who, like Lucien Lamoureux, once occupied this chair. I join with you in paying tribute to the late Mr. Lamoureux, who, as was pointed out, was the Speaker from 1966 to 1974.

We share his family's sense of loss, but we want to join with them in celebrating his life.

Naturally, for all of us here in the House, and especially for me, one of his successors, what we will remember most is his distinguished contribution to the House of Commons and to parliamentary democracy throughout the world.

As the occupant of this chair, Mr. Lamoureux set a standard to be emulated. This was said by the hon. member for West Vancouver—Sunshine Coast and I agree with him. His eloquence and his unfailing fairness in judging the matters brought before him are often praised, as they have been today.

What I personally have been struck by is Speaker Lamoureux's gift for perspective when rendering a decision. He was always careful to consider the specifics of the matter before him and to decide the case accordingly. Perhaps even more importantly for us who are here, he was always aware of the future consequences of the decisions he rendered for the institution, this institution which he so cherished.

Lucien Lamoureux presided over this House at a critical juncture in its procedural development. His wisdom guides us still as we continue that evolution.

At the international level, Speaker Lamoureux took the initiative of creating in 1969 the Conference of Commonwealth Speakers and Presiding Officers. The words of its preamble best describe this initiative. “Commonwealth Speakers and presiding officers, irrespective of race, colour, religion or culture, are united by community of interest, respect for the rule of law and pursuit of the ideals of parliamentary democracy”.

The conference that he began aims to maintain, foster and encourage the impartiality and fairness of speakers and presiding officers of parliaments through the promotion of knowledge and the understanding of parliamentary democracy in its various forms, and to develop parliamentary institutions.

Some members have spoken today about their personal relationship with Mr. Lamoureux. I did not have the pleasure of ever meeting him and I regret that a great deal. Too long I postponed making direct contact with one of these, yes, one of the giants of us, the Speakers of the House of Commons. We look to his decisions and we look to the manner with which he conducted himself and the business of this place.

At Kingsmere where Mr. Lamoureux lived, where I now live and these Speakers lived, he planted six trees that are there and are growing. When he planted them, I am told they were about seven feet high. Even after the ice storm, three of them survived to full growth and they are well over 35 feet now. There are many trees at Kingsmere of course. Those trees were there with Mackenzie King and Mr. Lamoureux's trees are there now.

I think it is symbolic that he planted something that continues to grow. We here in parliament are the recipients of the seeds of his wise decisions. My colleagues and I who have sat in this chair realize full well the responsibilities of a Speaker. You, my colleagues in this House, you too realize the importance of this institution to all of us.

We have lost a great Canadian. He was ours. He belonged to the House of Commons. He belonged to Canada. Yes, he belonged to you and you were good enough to share him with us. We thank you for that.

Kosovo

[Lloyd Axworthy, Liberal, Minister of Foreign Affairs]

Mr. Speaker, I think you will find unanimous consent of the House for the following resolution. I would like to express my thanks to the members of the opposition and to the member for Davenport for his inspiration for this resolution.

The resolution reads:

That this House expresses its profound dismay and sorrow concerning the atrocities being suffered by the civilian population in Kosovo and, in anticipation of winter, this House calls on the Government of the Federal Republic of Yugoslavia and the parties involved in this inhumane confrontation to put down arms immediately and start negotiating a solution with the help of international organizations like the United Nations and the Organization for Security and Co-operation in Europe, and other organizations whose belief is that there could be a lasting, peaceful and political solution.

[The Speaker]

Is there unanimous agreement?

[Some hon. members]

Agreed.

(Motion agreed to)

Privilege

[Judy Wasylycia-Leis, NDP, Winnipeg North Centre, MB]

Mr. Speaker, I rise on a point of privilege concerning the Minister of Health's non-enforcement of the Tobacco Act pending the passage of Bill C-42, an act to amend the Tobacco Act.

Documents from the minister's office demonstrate that the minister will not be enforcing certain measures in the Tobacco Act which comes into effect tomorrow, October 1, and will instead be enforcing the provisions of Bill C-42, which is still before the House at second reading.

I ask, Mr. Speaker, that you find the minister's presumption that Bill C-42 will pass, and his acting as if it has already passed, is a contempt of this House. I would hope that based on my presentation you will allow me to move that this matter be referred to the Standing Committee on Procedure and House Affairs.

The standing orders require that I raise this at the earliest possible opportunity. I point out that this is the eve of October 1 and therefore the earliest possible time when this matter could be raised.

There are provisions in the Tobacco Act regarding the ability of tobacco companies to sponsor public events that come into force on October 1. The measures in Bill C-42 supersede those measures, but there is no way that Bill C-42 will be enacted by tomorrow.

Through his careless handling of this file, and introducing Bill C-42 at such a late date that there is no physical possibility of meeting the legislated deadline in the Tobacco Act, the minister has left this House and the concerned members of the public in a difficult quandary.

As of tomorrow, the new restrictions on tobacco sponsorship under the Tobacco Act will have the force of law. However, the government says that it will administer the Tobacco Act after October 1 as if Bill C-42 has passed.

Let me quote from a briefing document from the Minister of Health's office which briefs the minister on how to answer questions on Bill C-42. The question is “What happens if the act is not in force by October 1, 1998 even if it is deemed to come into force on that date?” The answer is “Given that my intentions are now known it would be appropriate for the department to administer the legislation as if the amendment was in effect as of October 1, 1998”. Mr. Speaker, I appended a copy of this document to the notice of this point of privilege that I delivered to your office earlier today.

For the Minister of Health to administer the Tobacco Act from tomorrow as if Bill C-42 had passed this House is in my opinion a clear contempt of this House. When the Minister for International Trade earlier this year announced the formation of a Canada-China parliamentary association as if the House had created one when in fact it had not, you ruled, Mr. Speaker, on April 23, 1998:

In announcing the establishment of a Canada-China interparliamentary group and thereby prejudging a decision which has yet to be taken, the minister clearly overreached his authority. I am somewhat disappointed that a minister of the crown in acting with such haste may have prejudiced the very outcome that he wished to bring about. Such disregard for the administrative competence of parliament does nothing to enhance its prestige on the international stage.

Members have expressed their frustration over other announcements by the government which appear to bypass the authority of the House. As I have been reminded, this may have taken place on more than one occasion during this parliament.

The evidence shows that in the case of Bill C-42 this has happened again. Some might wish to argue that the government routinely collects new taxes announced in budgets before legislation passes through parliament and that this situation is comparable.

However there is no comparison. There is no reasonable alternative to collecting taxes once they are announced, for the obvious reason that individuals would take action to avoid them in the interval between the announcement and their enactment.

The time constraints surrounding Bill C-42 could have been to the contrary entirely avoidable. The government obviously knew that the October 1 deadline was in place and it had the opportunity to introduce amendments in a timely manner.

It is only through the carelessness of the government that we are now in a position of having to take the minister's intention as having the force of law. If this practice were condoned and the published intention of a minister were to have the force of law on a routine basis, there would be no point in having parliament at all.

For this reason, Mr. Speaker, I ask you to find that this constitutes a prima facie case of privilege and allow me to move that this matter be referred to the Standing Committee on Procedure and House Affairs.