House of Commons Hansard #13 of the 36th Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament's site.) The word of the day was transport.

Topics

SupplyGovernment Orders

1:40 p.m.

Reform

Keith Martin Reform Esquimalt—Juan de Fuca, BC

Mr. Speaker, I am very happy to speak to my hon. friend from the Bloc Quebecois. I was not accusing him, but there are members of his party who said that today and I will prove it to him privately after this. I will show him the facts.

The second point I wanted to make is, why is there an obligation in the law of this land to ensure that Air Canada is forced to have its headquarters in Montreal? Air Canada should have the same flexibility as any company to have its headquarters where it likes. I think it would be fair to allow Air Canada to do that.

On the point of whether the minister is or is not involved in any of this, that is an issue for the member to ask the minister, not me.

SupplyGovernment Orders

1:40 p.m.

The Acting Speaker (Mr. McClelland)

Unfortunately, the time for questions and comments has expired.

SupplyGovernment Orders

1:40 p.m.

An hon. member

Mr. Speaker, a point of order should not be taken from debate time.

SupplyGovernment Orders

1:40 p.m.

The Acting Speaker (Mr. McClelland)

The point has been made that the point of order should not be taken from debate time. It is a call that the Speaker gets to make. The Speaker has made the call. We are going to debate and the hon. member for Bruce—Grey has the floor.

SupplyGovernment Orders

1:40 p.m.

Liberal

Ovid Jackson Liberal Bruce—Grey, ON

Mr. Speaker, it is my pleasure today to speak to the opposition motion. I will share my time with the member for Mississauga West.

Today's motion reminded me of what happened in the early days of aircraft flying. I am reminded of a story told by Bishop Wright one Sunday in church when he was lecturing to the congregation. At that time there were two significant things happening. One was that there were to be blood transfusions coming out of Stanford and he thought that was not a good thing. There was no mention of it in the Bible. As well, he said “I hear that some people have developed some of these metal things that can fly”. He said “Ladies and gentlemen of the congregation, I want to tell you that flying is only reserved for angels”.

The government is here to make legislative changes, but those changes have to be what is best for Canadians. The country is large and has a northern climate. There are airports in many remote areas. Canadians would like to be able to get across this country as often as they can and as cheaply as they can. Every once in a while when it gets a little cold they want to go south. As a member of the transport committee, the question I have is what is in the best interests of the public and how can we get there? The minister has outlined five points.

The problem with the debate today is that it is being clouded by extemporaneous things. We have our own little nuances and little enclaves because we are a federation. We have to look beyond the federation to see how the system can be better while being reminded that this is a Canadian institution. None of us in the House, including members on this side, will ever give that up.

We want to have full control of the Canadian airline industry. So far we have done well. We started with Air Canada which had a lot of help from the government. The government helped Air Canada get on its feet. As always happens in this place, when Air Canada started making money the opposition did not like it and we had to privatize it. We said it was okay, that it could fly on its own.

Later on we did the same thing for Canadian Airlines in a balanced approach. We gave it some international routes and allowed it some slots in British airports. It is working quite well.

The transport committee heard from the Canadian Transportation Agency. It heard from the Competition Bureau. They have a lot of resources, skills and experience. They told us that we have benefited from deregulation over the last number of years.

I do not think the Minister of Transport got up one morning and decided that the industry had a problem. We ended up with this problem because of the changes in the international market, in international allegiances and alliances and because things do change in the marketplace.

SupplyGovernment Orders

1:45 p.m.

An hon. member

Too much bureaucracy.

SupplyGovernment Orders

1:45 p.m.

Liberal

Ovid Jackson Liberal Bruce—Grey, ON

A member of the opposition says there is too much bureaucracy. We want to get rid of that too and that is what we will try to do.

There are repair facilities in one part of the country and head offices in other parts. Pilots on both sides are lobbying. Members of parliament are getting antsy. They are being pushed in one direction or the other.

The main point is what is in the best interests of the public. Can they get access to their communities? Will the fares be as cheap as possible because there is enough competition in the marketplace? Can they have better flights and faster routing using other systems? That is what we are examining. As far as I know, every time the government has changed regulations it has been for the better. That is what I hear when I am in the transport committee.

The Bloc is trying to tell us that we should stick to the 10% rule. It may be what we end up doing. However, it must not be in the legislative framework as the Bloc is trying to do here today, to force us to make a decision based on something that we do not know anything about.

These two airlines are competing to see who is going to take the position when the dust has settled and the shareholders have decided. These are corporate moves. We will be faced with having to make a decision. The minister has listened to public forums and gathered all the needed information. He asked the Competition Bureau to look at it. He asked the regulators to look at it. When this offer comes before us we want all our options open. We will make a decision and the decision will be that Canadians will still effectively have control.

The question is will there be effective control? Will small communities be serviced? Will the rights of the workers be respected and looked after? Will their contracts be looked at so they do not lose benefits they are currently getting? Will that be handled in a proper fashion?

There are all the other balanced approaches we have to use to make sure there is competition in the marketplace, to make sure that Canadians have more options and cheaper fares. These are the things that need to be looked at and they cannot be looked at with our hands tied behind our backs by saying it is going to be 1%, 2%, 3% or whatever.

Times do change. I said earlier that Bishop Wright got up in church and said that people would not fly. People do fly and as a matter fact, we can now go to the moon.

SupplyGovernment Orders

1:50 p.m.

NDP

Bev Desjarlais NDP Churchill, MB

Mr. Speaker, the hon. member commented on Bishop Wright's analogy that only angels fly. I am sure all of us recognize that flying goes beyond that.

I am wondering if in any of his comments Bishop Wright talked about ethics. Did he talk about living by the rules and laws while they are in place? If that is not going to be the case, maybe the government side should take a flight to the moon and let the public interest be handled by Canadians and people who care about the public interest.

I have to question a government that does not ensure that the laws are being adhered to. If a government is not doing that, how is it representing the best interests of Canadians?

SupplyGovernment Orders

1:50 p.m.

Liberal

Ovid Jackson Liberal Bruce—Grey, ON

Mr. Speaker, I will try to answer the hon. member's question in this fashion.

The government has not had any offers before it. The government has not moved beyond the 10% rule. The government cannot be accused of being unethical because it is all hypothetical.

SupplyGovernment Orders

1:50 p.m.

Bloc

Jean-Guy Chrétien Bloc Frontenac—Mégantic, QC

Mr. Speaker, my friend and colleague from Bruce—Grey, who is usually very intelligent and a good mathematician, having taught mathematics and physical education for many years, says that we must fly more and more regularly and at the best rate possible. However, I have difficulty with his reasoning.

I cannot see how this will be possible with only one airline left after the merger, when we no longer have any choice and there is no competition for prices. Right now, we can choose between two or three airlines the one whose schedules and prices suit us best.

I do not understand how the hon. member for Bruce—Grey can say that plane tickets will be cheaper and service will be better when there is only one airline left. That does not make sense. I cannot understand his reasoning. If there were only one restaurant in his hometown, it would cost him a mint of money to eat there, he would not get any service and he would have to wait for hours before being served.

I am wondering if the sole purpose of his speech is not to please his minister, who joined in the debate a moment ago, to get a promotion or to dissociate himself from the dissidents who expressed dissatisfaction in yesterday's caucus meeting.

SupplyGovernment Orders

1:50 p.m.

Liberal

Ovid Jackson Liberal Bruce—Grey, ON

Mr. Speaker, my hon. colleagues and I have fun and we do work together. We are still in the realm of the hypothetical.

When we make changes and those changes call for legislative changes, we have exchanges and debates in the House. It is those legislative changes and those debates that make our systems better.

My hon. friend has some concerns that I can understand. However, I think he has been to some of the transport committee meetings. He will know we have had some advice that notwithstanding there will be a dominant carrier, there are ways and means to make sure we keep that competition, that the small areas are looked after and that the pilots are looked after. We are looking into all of that. We cannot reach the conclusion that the technique we are going to use is good or bad until such time as we have tabled the legislation.

SupplyGovernment Orders

1:55 p.m.

Liberal

Sarkis Assadourian Liberal Brampton Centre, ON

Mr. Speaker, what is the member doing specifically to make sure that whatever happens to the airline industry it will continue to provide services to small towns in Ontario and other provinces?

SupplyGovernment Orders

1:55 p.m.

Liberal

Ovid Jackson Liberal Bruce—Grey, ON

Mr. Speaker, the system we have now allows for small operators to start up their businesses. Obviously the Competition Bureau will look at the operators to make sure they have enough facilities, that their facilities are safe and that they have enough resources to operate.

There are many facilities. For instance, my friends from out west will tell us that CanWest is doing a great job. First Air owned by our native people is doing a fantastic job up north. There is room in the marketplace to make sure that smaller communities are looked after.

Under the legislation and under the legislative framework we will make sure we have enough slots for aircraft. We will make sure that travel agents are controlled and are also operating for our small communities, that they are able to access these flights and co-ordinate them. We will make sure there will be enough space at the airports. From time to time there will be subsidies.

When we make a regulation we have to make sure all of our communities are serviced. Those small communities will be looked after under the legislation.

SupplyGovernment Orders

1:55 p.m.

The Speaker

We will pick up on debate at the end of question period. It is almost two o'clock so we will go to Statements By Members.

Lisaard House FoundationStatements By Members

1:55 p.m.

Liberal

Janko Peric Liberal Cambridge, ON

Mr. Speaker, Cambridge residents Val and Sheila O'Donovan recently donated $1 million to the Lisaard House Foundation, a new charitable organization establishing a hospice for terminally ill cancer patients.

Cancer patients who are too ill to be at home and who do not want to be in hospital will now have the option of staying at Lisaard House. The 6,000 square foot hospice located on 3.8 acres will provide large accommodations plus other living and meeting quarters making it easier for families and friends of cancer patients to visit and stay over.

The O'Donovans describe the donation as a gift back to the community. It is the generosity and kindness of people like Val and Sheila that has made Cambridge the caring community that it is. I call on all members to join me in thanking the O'Donovans for their incredible generosity.

Jimmy “Iceman” MacneilStatements By Members

1:55 p.m.

Reform

Cliff Breitkreuz Reform Yellowhead, AB

Mr. Speaker,

The outlook isn't bright for Canadians today, For Yankees are stealing the game that Canuckers love to play. On every front they rob us, south the talent flows, Thanks in part to Liberals, who tax us through the nose. Great multitudes of fans are deep in despair, Tired of the Yashin types spewing thick pompous air. Yet on a different front, a battle has started to brew, Where a true Canadian stands alone to fight for me and you. There is a man from Brantford, waging an ice age war, To return what might be lost, and perhaps even more. It's Jimmy “Iceman” MacNeil, who guides the Brantford Zamboni, Taking on a Detroit Yank, who couldn't ice bologna. One Zamboni driver, will triumph from this fight, The winner will ice the surface, on NHL All-Star night. Jimmy needs your votes; he needs them now today, Canadians vote at Zamboni.com where you can have your say. Choose the brave Canadian, not the American fat cat, For Canadian pride will swell again if we let Jimmy ice the mat.

Armenian ParliamentStatements By Members

October 28th, 1999 / 1:55 p.m.

Liberal

Sarkis Assadourian Liberal Brampton Centre, ON

Mr. Speaker, I am terribly saddened by the deaths of Prime Minister Sarkisian, the Speaker of the Armenian parliament, Speaker Demirchian, and other members of the Armenian government at the hands of terrorist gunmen on October 27, 1999. We must all condemn this cowardly attack on fellow parliamentarians who were gunned down while they conducted their nation's democratic business in the Armenian parliament.

I invite all members of parliament and the public to join me and the former Canadian Ambassador to Armenia, Anne Leahy, when we meet with the Armenian community tomorrow night, October 29, at 7.30 p.m. at the AGBU Centre, 930 Progress Avenue, Scarborough, Ontario, at the corner of Markham Road and the 401.

I urge all Canadians to support Armenia during this time of crisis. A friend in need is a friend indeed.

Canada Health ActStatements By Members

2 p.m.

NDP

Judy Wasylycia-Leis NDP Winnipeg North Centre, MB

Mr. Speaker, since when did access to universal health care in the country depend on where we live and how much we make?

A Canadian study in today's New England Journal of Medicine shows that our chances of living through a heart attack depends on how rich we are. If we are wealthy we are 20% more likely to get high quality treatment.

Another study leaked two weeks ago shows that Windsor residents have higher death rates and suffer more from 22 serious illnesses, including birth defects and heart disease, than other Canadians.

Where are the Liberals? The silence is deafening. Even worse, the government is contributing to two-tier health care through wilful neglect and a refusal to enforce the Canada Health Act.

Today, let us make a real commitment to end this agenda of silence and complicity and to ensure that every Canadian has equal access to a healthy life no matter where they live and how much is in their pocketbook.

AgricultureStatements By Members

2 p.m.

Liberal

Rey D. Pagtakhan Liberal Winnipeg North—St. Paul, MB

Mr. Speaker, “Farming is the single most important factor in Canadian experience,” wrote author Allan Anderson in Remembering the Farm .

It is, therefore, welcome when the Prime Minister and the premiers of Manitoba and Saskatchewan come together and when delegations of farmers, ministers and officials meet with key federal ministers and government caucuses to find urgent solutions to the farm income crisis and to address the root causes on a long term basis.

Dialogues like these, not sheer political partisanship, are more effective in further advancing the interests of farmers to the well-being of all Canadians. Thus, we can be confident that the Government of Canada, working together with all stakeholders, will find the solution and soon.

Farming is vital to Canada's food production system, is vital to the Canadian economy and will continue to be vital to Canadian life.

Royal Canadian Mounted PoliceStatements By Members

2 p.m.

Liberal

Jacques Saada Liberal Brossard—La Prairie, QC

Mr. Speaker, this year we are celebrating an important stage in the life of the Royal Canadian Mounted Police, namely 25 years of women in the force.

On September 16, 1974, at exactly the same moment across the country, 32 women aged between 19 and 29, from all provinces except Prince Edward Island, were hired as regular members of the RCMP. Today, some 14% of the force are women. That amounts to some 2,000 women.

The appointment of women police officers not only radically changed the RCMP and other police forces, it also helped radically change the role of women in the workplace and to change public perception of this role and of the police.

Many activities have been organized in celebration of this event, but much remains to be done. The change is essential if we want Canada to continue to set an example with community police and police close—

Royal Canadian Mounted PoliceStatements By Members

2 p.m.

The Speaker

The member for Edmonton East.

Merchant Navy VeteransStatements By Members

2 p.m.

Reform

Peter Goldring Reform Edmonton East, AB

Mr. Speaker, 50 years of stonewalling, 50 years of neglect, 50 years of denial of equality for Canada's merchant navy veterans. This is our governments' performance for 50 years and more.

The issue is very clear. The bitterness is so very high. The veterans are not seeking great wealth, simply the respect and benefits given to their armed forces brethren with fair and just recompense.

The minister must agree that this issue cries out for resolve. It would be unconscionable for their concerns to continue to the next millennium, for the bitterness to be carried to their graves. The minister must end this injustice, end this sordid tale now. Lest we all forget.

Futurallia 2000Statements By Members

2 p.m.

Bloc

Serge Cardin Bloc Sherbrooke, QC

Mr. Speaker, next June, Sherbrooke will be hosting a major event. Futurallia 2000, the international forum on business alliances, will meet for the sixth time and, for the first time in its history, outside France.

For three days, nearly 500 business people from some 30 countries will meet in the capital of the eastern townships to discuss strategic alliances, subcontracting bids and distribution network development.

Permit me to congratulate the organizers of Futurallia 2000 on their initiative. Réal Patry and his team have been working hard for months to make this event a success. They are working to ensure that each of the business meetings may be as successful as possible for the businesses involved. In addition, the success of this event will boost our region's economy.

I invite my colleagues to tell businesses in their riding about this forum so they too may reap the benefits of Futurallia 2000.

Kimmirut StudentsStatements By Members

2:05 p.m.

Liberal

Nancy Karetak-Lindell Liberal Nunavut, NU

Mr. Speaker, I would like to welcome to Ottawa a group of dedicated students from Kimmirut, a small community on Baffin Island in Nunavut.

After extensive fundraising and a sponsorship by Heritage Canada, these students spent last week in Montreal. Next April their hosts, grade 9 and 10 students from St. George's High School in Montreal, will travel to Kimmirut to experience Nunavut hospitality.

Exchange trips are one of the positive ways for Canadians to learn more about our great country and we welcome those who chose to come to the north.

Kimmirutmiut, welcome to the nation's capital and enjoy the rest of your exchange.

Grain FarmersStatements By Members

2:05 p.m.

Reform

Jack Ramsay Reform Crowfoot, AB

Mr. Speaker, Doug Steinwand farms in my constituency. This fall he took a load of grain to the elevator. His gross income for that load of grain was just under $5,000. His take home pay was just under $3,000. Over $2,000 was deducted for transportation, handling and the GST. Those deductions amount to 42% of the gross value of the grain marketed by this hardworking husband and father who is trying to make a living for his family.

How can farmers survive under these conditions? Their input costs are enormous. The price they get for their grain is depressed because of international subsidies. They battle the weather to plant and harvest their crops and when they get their grain to market, 42% of its depressed value is ripped off the top for handling and transportation.

If something is not done about these conditions, Canada is going to lose its farmers and our food producing capacity.

I say to Mr. Steinwand, to his family and thousands of farmers like him, the government has failed you, it has failed your families and it has failed the country.