Debates of Nov. 15th, 1999

Taxation

[Deborah Grey, Reform, Edmonton North, AB]

The disorder is right across the way. If you turn to your right you would see it.

She asked:

—how can I see the good when burden of taxation is blinding me?

The Prime Minister has told Canadians to move south if they do not like it here. Why is his finance minister also encouraging people like Holly to move south?

[Paul Martin, Liberal, Minister of Finance]

Mr. Speaker, again the disorder is in the Reform Party's research branch.

First, the Prime Minister said no such thing. Second, the fact is that although obviously I do not know all the details of Holly's situation in all likelihood she will have received by next year a 14% to 14.5% tax cut.

Air Transportation Industry

[Gilles Duceppe, Bloc, Laurier—Sainte-Marie, QC]

Mr. Speaker, instead of proposing a coherent air transportation policy, the Minister of Transport supported an illegal bid.

In this matter, the minister demonstrated a flagrant lack of respect for parliament, something a court brought to his attention recently.

After mocking parliament, supporting an illegal bid and being set straight by the courts, why is the minister not resigning?

[David Collenette, Liberal, Minister of Transport]

Mr. Speaker, we have established a process for restructuring our airline industry. Now we have a proposal from Air Canada to acquire Canadian.

I hope the hon. member will let Air Canada and the private market carry on. If an agreement is reached, we will proceed with measures to protect the public interest.

[Gilles Duceppe, Bloc, Laurier—Sainte-Marie, QC]

Mr. Speaker, we have seen the way the minister protects the public interest.

One of his guidelines was to recommend the consideration of an illegal offer. That shows very clearly the minister's interest in air transportation. That shows very clearly his interest in transparent policy. He has made it plain he is much more interested in according benefits to his friends. He has been as incompetent in this matter as he was in national defence.

Is it not time the minister took off, cleared the runway and resigned?

[David Collenette, Liberal, Minister of Transport]

Mr. Speaker, as I said, we are following a policy at present. There is a process in committee for studying the matter of our airline industry. I invite the hon. member to pay attention to the facts and arguments for restructuring when he makes accusations against the government.

[Michel Guimond, Bloc, Beauport—Montmorency—Orléans, QC]

Mr. Speaker, we have learned one thing from the airline saga: Canadian International Airlines is well and truly controlled by American Airlines, contrary to the spirit of the legislation on the control of Canada's airlines.

Since he has refused to fulfil his duty as a minister and has instead supported a project confirming American Airlines' control over air travel in Canada, ought the Minister of Transport not to tender his resignation immediately?

[David Collenette, Liberal, Minister of Transport]

Mr. Speaker, I have already answered that question.

[Michel Guimond, Bloc, Beauport—Montmorency—Orléans, QC]

Mr. Speaker, given his inability to protect the regional airlines, and his equal inability to produce an airline policy for Canada, should the Minister of Transport not resign, just as he did when he was the Minister of National Defence, since he is totally overwhelmed by the situation that exists in the airline industry in Canada?

[David Collenette, Liberal, Minister of Transport]

Mr. Speaker, what I am overwhelmed about is the absolute incompetence of the opposition, in this case the Bloc Quebecois, which refuses to look at the arguments and refuses to enjoin in a debate at committee. Instead it should pay more attention to the facts and help all of us here deal with a very difficult situation.

Devco

[Alexa McDonough, NDP, Halifax, NS]

Mr. Speaker, the federal government's plan for Cape Breton is a one time kiss off payment equal to less than one year's economic activity generated by Devco and after that Cape Bretoners loose, like the federal government did to fisheries workers, like the federal government is doing to seasonal workers, like the federal government is doing to our farmers and their families. Why is the government leaving Cape Bretoners out in the cold?

[Ralph Goodale, Liberal, Minister of Natural Resources and Minister responsible for the Canadian Wheat Board]

Mr. Speaker, the government is not. When we examine the record stretching back to 1967, the Government of Canada has invested over $2 billion in the operations of Devco, either on the coal mining side or on the industrial development side.

In the course of immediate circumstances we are providing a human resources package, an economic development package, all of that in addition to what would normally be done by agencies like ACOA and ECBC.

The Government of Canada has a longstanding commitment to the people of Cape Breton and that will carry on.

[Alexa McDonough, NDP, Halifax, NS]

Mr. Speaker, we are talking about the future of Cape Bretoners and their children.

The minister conveniently failed to mention the $3.6 million spent on a new tunnel connecting buildings on Parliament Hill to protect our esteemed senators like Bernie Boudreau from the nip of cool air on that one minute walk to the Senate. We cannot have those senators out in the cold, now can we?

Meanwhile Cape Bretoners are already suffering 18% unemployment, 30% unofficial unemployment. How much pain must Cape Bretoners endure before the government begins to treat them with dignity and respect?

[Ralph Goodale, Liberal, Minister of Natural Resources and Minister responsible for the Canadian Wheat Board]

Mr. Speaker, what the people of Cape Breton need is the financial support that is being provided by the Government of Canada and serious and conscientious ideas about how to develop a better future on the island. What they do not need are the histrionics and hyperbole of a desperate political leader.

Csis

[Peter MacKay, Progressive Conservative, Pictou—Antigonish—Guysborough, NS]

Mr. Speaker, based on the recent comments of the Prime Minister it is obvious he does not understand the serious nature of the recent security breach by a CSIS agent. Hopefully the solicitor general does.

We know that a CSIS agent had sensitive top secret documents stolen from his or her car while at a hockey game in Toronto. We also know that the head of SIRC has commenced an investigation.

What actions has the solicitor general taken to identify how this breach of national security occurred and what disciplinary measures will be put in place to ensure that it does not happen again?

[Lawrence MacAulay, Liberal, Solicitor General of Canada]

Mr. Speaker, I can assure my hon. colleague that the government takes this matter very seriously and the Security Intelligence Review Committee will be evaluating the situation, as it should because it has a mandate from the House to do so. When it does I will receive a report.

[Peter MacKay, Progressive Conservative, Pictou—Antigonish—Guysborough, NS]

Mr. Speaker, that is a tired mantra. This is the latest fiasco in this department that leads to an international embarrassment and it is indicative of our national policing agencies being in decline and disarray.

CSIS and the RCMP have had their budgets cut to ribbons by this government. The head of SIRC, Paule Gauthier, read about the CSIS calamity in the Globe and Mail almost a week after it happened. We do not know when Ward Elcock heard.

When was the solicitor general first advised about this blatant violation of national security and what actions did he take to deal with that breach immediately? The confidence of Canadians in our agents hangs in the balance.

[Lawrence MacAulay, Liberal, Solicitor General of Canada]

Mr. Speaker, I was notified immediately.

What action is SIRC taking? It will review what took place. It has a mandate from the House to review and report on the situation. That is exactly what will happen.

[Jim Abbott, Reform, Kootenay—Columbia, BC]

Mr. Speaker, the solicitor general is taking great licence with the word immediately. That theft occurred fully three weeks before it was reported in the Globe and Mail and the first time the head of SIRC read about it was in the Globe and Mail .

Why were they not informed immediately? Why is he covering up for CSIS?

[Lawrence MacAulay, Liberal, Solicitor General of Canada]

Mr. Speaker, as I indicated previously, SIRC, the Security Intelligence Review Committee, has the mandate to review these issues. It has access to CSIS files. That is exactly what will take place. It will review the situation, it will report on it and I will receive the report.

[Jim Abbott, Reform, Kootenay—Columbia, BC]

Mr. Speaker, once again this minister is taking great licence with the truth.

The fact of the matter is—

[Some hon. members]

Oh, oh.

[The Deputy Speaker]

I know the hon. member for Kootenay—Columbia will want to stay well within the rules in putting his question and I invite him to do so.

[Jim Abbott, Reform, Kootenay—Columbia, BC]

Mr. Speaker, I would like the solicitor general to tell the House and Canadians when he received advice and when he advised SIRC. I believe that SIRC was advised by the Globe and Mail three weeks after the event. Can he change that opinion? When did the solicitor general advise SIRC? Did he advise SIRC at the same time that he was advised? That is his responsibility.

[Lawrence MacAulay, Liberal, Solicitor General of Canada]

Mr. Speaker, as I indicated in response to a previous question, I was notified immediately. The Security Intelligence Review Committee has the mandate, as I indicated quite clearly to my hon. colleague, to review these issues. It has access to CSIS files. It will review, it will report and I will receive the report.