Debates of Nov. 16th, 1999

Csis

[The Speaker]

I ask members to be very judicious in their choice of words.

[Lawrence MacAulay, Liberal, Solicitor General of Canada]

Mr. Speaker, when I was informed by the director of CSIS, he also informed me that the inspector general was conducting an investigation, CSIS was conducting an investigation, and the process was proceeding as it should proceed.

[Jim Abbott, Reform, Kootenay—Columbia, BC]

Mr. Speaker, I will read section 20(2) to the solicitor general again. It says that the minister in turn must send the report with his comments to the Attorney General of Canada and to the Security Intelligence Review Committee.

He did not do that. He received a report from CSIS. He did not send the report to the Security Intelligence Review Committee. Is that not a breaking of this statute?

[Lawrence MacAulay, Liberal, Solicitor General of Canada]

Mr. Speaker, as I indicated to my hon. colleague, the director of CSIS verbally indicated to me what happened and at the same time he indicated to me that the inspector general of CSIS was conducting an investigation and that CSIS was conducting an investigation.

Transfer Payments

[Michel Gauthier, Bloc, Roberval, QC]

Mr. Speaker, yesterday, the ministers of finance unanimously called on the federal government to raise the level of transfers for health care and education spending by $3.7 billion.

My question is for the Minister of Finance. Will he admit that he has already cut too much in the transfers to the provinces for health care, in particular, and that he is therefore responsible for most of the problems in all the provinces and that his priority is to re-establish the transfers as he was asked to do by his provincial and territorial colleagues?

[Paul Martin, Liberal, Minister of Finance]

Mr. Speaker, in terms of priority, it is very clear, when we look at what the government has done in the past year, that the transfers are certainly very important. Health is of vital importance.

As regards yesterday's finance ministers meeting, I think everyone is satisfied that matters are fine at both federal and provincial levels. We have to remember that the provinces cut significantly at the municipal level. Now that we have the opportunity to work together, I hope that all three levels of government will be included.

[Michel Gauthier, Bloc, Roberval, QC]

Mr. Speaker, yesterday, the provincial and territorial finance ministers recognized that the federal government must reduce its enormous debt.

They recognized at the same time that the priority of the federal government, before it spends on other programs that are not its responsibility, is essentially to re-establish the transfers for health care and education and that this priority must guide the Minister of Finance and his government.

[Paul Martin, Liberal, Minister of Finance]

Mr. Speaker, that is not exactly how I read their meeting. They said not only that we should reduce the debt and taxes but they advocated an infrastructure program as recommended in the throne speech.

Csis

[Preston Manning, Reform, Leader of the Opposition]

Mr. Speaker, the one simple way this parliament keeps a hold on the executive is through the law.

One of our laws, section 20(2) of the CSIS act, states that the minister must send the report with his comments to the Attorney General of Canada and SIRC. Did the minister comply with section 20(2) of the CSIS act?

[Lawrence MacAulay, Liberal, Solicitor General of Canada]

Mr. Speaker, as I indicated a number of times in the House, CSIS is conducting an investigation. When I receive the report I will act accordingly.

[Preston Manning, Reform, Leader of the Opposition]

Mr. Speaker, it is quite apparent that the minister did not comply with the basic statutes governing CSIS for which he is responsible. The next logical question, if the minister can follow this, is: Why did the minister not comply with section 20(2) of the CSIS act?

[Herb Gray, Liberal, Deputy Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, the first thing the Reform Party ought to do is accurately cite the section of the act in question, and the context.

The section in question states:

If the Director is of the opinion that an employee may, on a particular occasion, have acted unlawfully in the purported performance of the duties and functions of the Service under this Act, the Director shall cause to be submitted a report in respect thereof to the Minister.

Then the clause arises about it going to the attorney general.

My hon. friend has not stated that the report to the solicitor general was of this kind. In fact, the solicitor general has told the House that investigations are going on in this matter, so at best the questions of the Reform Party are highly premature.

Canadian Security Intelligence Service

[Michel Bellehumeur, Bloc, Berthier—Montcalm, QC]

Mr. Speaker, we read in the National Post that this is the fourth time CSIS has got its foot in it.

On one occasion, officers lost information about a west coast surveillance mission. On another, they left strategic information in a telephone booth. On a third, they tried to burn classified documents in a fireplace.

My question is for the Solicitor General of Canada. In the face of such a disaster, is the minister going to ask senior officers of the Canadian Security Intelligence Service to appear before the Standing Committee on Justice and Human Rights to answer for their actions?

[Lawrence MacAulay, Liberal, Solicitor General of Canada]

Mr. Speaker, as I indicated previously, the director of CSIS has indicated that the necessary steps have been taken to protect security. He also indicated to me that CSIS was conducting an investigation and the inspector general was conducting an investigation.

What I ask my hon. colleague to do is to let the process unfold.

Earthquake In Turkey

[Ted McWhinney, Liberal, Vancouver Quadra, BC]

Mr. Speaker, last week, Turkey suffered its second earthquake in three months. Almost 3,000 people were injured and 450 died.

Can the Minister for International Cooperation tell the House whether Canada is in a position to send humanitarian aid and Canadian rescue workers to Turkey?

[Maria Minna, Liberal, Minister for International Cooperation]

Mr. Speaker, immediately after the earthquake I approved a $250,000 humanitarian aid program through the International Red Cross. In addition, we sent two members of the rescue team from Vancouver to work along with the United Nations. As well, we were very active in the earthquake that Turkey had in August, when we sent $1 million, plus the DART team, plus the firefighters to aid with that situation.

I spoke yesterday with the representative of the Vancouver team and he told me that things were reasonably calm now, that they were doing well and that he would be on his way back home within the next couple of days.

Canada Elections Act

[Ted White, Reform, North Vancouver, BC]

Mr. Speaker, the House leader for the government was wrong when he told the editorial board of the Vancouver Sun that the official opposition supports the elections act.

Bill C-2 is supposed to be fair and non-partisan, but it slaps a gag law on the voters, it reinstates the unfair 50 candidate rule and it is riddled with patronage appointments for the government's friends. Even the Chief Electoral Officer said he would not recommend it to a third world country. No one except the House leader seems to like it.

I would like to know why he is publicly exaggerating support for the bill.

[Don Boudria, Liberal, Leader of the Government in the House of Commons]

Mr. Speaker, I thank the hon. member, the critic for the official opposition on electoral matters. I want to assure the House that I will never accuse him of supporting good legislation in the future.

[Ted White, Reform, North Vancouver, BC]

Mr. Speaker, the Chief Electoral Officer said that it is critical that he be given the power to appoint his own returning officers based on merit, but the government insists on appointing its own political friends to those crucial positions.

The official opposition cannot support the bill and the Chief Electoral Officer says it is not fit for a third world country. Why exactly is the minister so enthusiastic about it?

[Don Boudria, Liberal, Leader of the Government in the House of Commons]

Mr. Speaker, this is a very good bill. It has been stated so by many people who appeared before the parliamentary committee. The member, who pretends to be an expert on such matters, will know that what I am saying is totally accurate. He will know as well that Canada's election laws are already excellent. They have been utilized elsewhere in the world as examples for democracy. He knows that. We are striving to make this law better.

It is too bad that the Reform Party is once again going to isolate itself from the rest of Canadians on this issue.

Trade

[Libby Davies, NDP, Vancouver East, BC]

Mr. Speaker, global corporations are itching to profit from Canada's schools and hospitals. The federal government is poised for the first time ever to put health and education on the WTO table. Canadians do not buy that the trade minister can make it easier for wealthy investors to profiteer from health care and education without sacrificing our schools and hospitals. The trade minister cannot have his cake and eat it too.

Will he change his position and push for a complete carve out of health and education so that all countries can keep private corporations out of their schools and hospitals?

[Pierre Pettigrew, Liberal, Minister for International Trade]

Mr. Speaker, let me be absolutely crystal clear. In the WTO, under the GATS, our universal health care and public education are not subject to any international trade rules unless Canada accepts those rules. We did not accept them in the Uruguay round and we will not accept them in the next round.

I do not think it is up to Canada to decide for other countries what they should be doing as the NDP is telling us what we should be doing right now. If other countries want something for themselves they can volunteer for it. We will not.

[Svend Robinson, NDP, Burnaby—Douglas, BC]

Mr. Speaker, the minister knows that if Canadian corporations are going to profit in health care and education in other countries, we are going to have to sacrifice our public health care and education system in Canada.

Last month the heritage minister said “What we are seeking in the Seattle round is an explicit reference in the WTO that culture is not to be negotiated at the WTO—period”, not a separate instrument but a carve out in the WTO.

Is this the position that the trade minister will be taking in Seattle?

[Pierre Pettigrew, Liberal, Minister for International Trade]

Mr. Speaker, the position I will be taking is the 50 years experience we have and the recent experience we have on GATS, which is absolutely clear. A country may make a concession to us in a certain field without us having to volunteer a concession in the same field. That is what international trade is all about. A country chooses the sectors in which it makes its concessions. Canada will not make concessions on health and public education.

Canadian Security Intelligence Service

[André Bachand, Progressive Conservative, Richmond—Arthabaska, QC]

Mr. Speaker, my question is for the solicitor general.

When did he inform the Prime Minister's office or the Prime Minister of the disappearance of the documents?