Debates of Nov. 3rd, 1999

Agriculture

[Howard Hilstrom, Reform, Selkirk—Interlake, MB]

Mr. Speaker, I withdraw hiding the truth.

[Lyle Vanclief, Liberal, Minister of Agriculture and Agri-Food]

Mr. Speaker, when the same process involving the same officials and all the same parties were used to put numbers and projected income for farm income together in July, the hon. member and his party did not say that they were bogus numbers or that they were cooked up.

Exactly the same people were involved. The numbers are a little better because there were increases in crops, increases in the use of NISA programs, et cetera. I am sorry the hon. member is disappointed that there was a bigger crop in the west this year, for example, than was anticipated in July.

[Howard Hilstrom, Reform, Selkirk—Interlake, MB]

Mr. Speaker, the agriculture minister should know that when forecasts are made up by economists and Statistics Canada they use conservative figures that are realistic.

What has happened is that the figures are now reflecting the most optimistic thing the Prime Minister can think of: farmers are doing well; they have $1.5 billion.

Why are they still out there suffering and losing their farms? Has the Prime Minister chosen to listen to bureaucrats instead of farmers?

[Lyle Vanclief, Liberal, Minister of Agriculture and Agri-Food]

Mr. Speaker, I will repeat. The very same process with the very same people in the very same organizations that put the numbers together in their projections for July of this year were used and were involved, including the officials in each of the two provinces that were involved in July, will be involved for next February, and were involved in these.

Those officials have been involved in this process since October 15 of this year. They were fully aware, full participants and had their input. Changes were made—

[The Speaker]

The hon. member for Palliser.

[Dick Proctor, NDP, Palliser, SK]

Mr. Speaker, last month's update for prairie provinces on the 1999 farm income forecast has finally been public.

For Saskatchewan the net farm income will be significantly below the five year average. In fact it will be significantly below the five year average for next year as well.

Why did the government hide behind these numbers as an excuse not to give either hope or relief to farmers when they were here on Parliament Hill last week?

[Lyle Vanclief, Liberal, Minister of Agriculture and Agri-Food]

Mr. Speaker, there was no hiding behind any numbers at all. I would have to assume that the officials in the provinces cleared those numbers with their politicians. If they did not, I guess the member should ask those politicians why their officials did not share them with them.

The numbers are better than projected in July of this year. We are all glad of that. That does not take away from the fact that a number of producers are hurting out there. That is why we continue to look at and continue to make changes to assist in every way we possibly can.

[Dick Proctor, NDP, Palliser, SK]

Mr. Speaker, why does the minister confuse the issue? Why does the government not commit to helping prairie farmers who have been decimated by the slashing of agriculture domestic support payments proposed by these folks over here and readily accepted by you guys instead of—

[The Speaker]

Order, please. I ask the hon. member to go directly to his question.

[Dick Proctor, NDP, Palliser, SK]

Farmers cannot compete with the foreign subsidies which we know they are facing. I would simply ask the minister what he will do about it and when.

[Lyle Vanclief, Liberal, Minister of Agriculture and Agri-Food]

Mr. Speaker, we have done a lot about it. We would like to do more. Yes, we would. We have been continuing to make changes to assist more producers, and we are not done making changes yet.

Transfer Payments To Provinces

[André Bachand, Progressive Conservative, Richmond—Arthabaska, QC]

Mr. Speaker, yesterday we learned that within three to five years, $25 to $35 billion dollars would be spent, or invested, in existing or new programs.

My question is for the Minister of Finance. Is he open to the idea of reinvesting these billions of dollars into transfer payments to the provinces, or is he shutting the door permanently on any new possibility of transfer payments to the provinces?

[Paul Martin, Liberal, Minister of Finance]

Mr. Speaker, all the hon. member needs to do is to look at what this government has done in the past two years.

The first thing we did after eliminating the deficit was to increase transfer payments to the provinces.

[André Bachand, Progressive Conservative, Richmond—Arthabaska, QC]

Mr. Speaker, the minister has a problem. Between now and 2003 or 2004, transfer payments will be at the same level as they were before the cuts.

With his surplus and his great 40-day consultation, is he prepared to consider new amounts for transfer to the provinces? A number of programs administered by the provinces within their own areas of jurisdiction are in difficulty. Is the minister's mind open or closed to the idea of transferring more money to the provinces in coming months or years?

[Paul Martin, Liberal, Minister of Finance]

Mr. Speaker, this is the same question, for which I have the same answer. When the past actions of this government are examined, what was done last year for example, there has been a $11.5 billion increase over five years. It is very clear that the federal government is prepared to assume its responsibilities.

Now, as far as the committee's recommendations are concerned, I am most anxious to hear what it has to say to us.

Anti-Tobacco Advertisements

[Gurbax Malhi, Liberal, Bramalea—Gore—Malton, ON]

Mr. Speaker, my question is for the health minister. Health Canada has produced a new series of anti-tobacco advertisements.

Since some 45,000 Canadians died from tobacco related diseases last year, could the minister explain what the government hopes the new ads will accomplish?

[Yvon Charbonneau, Liberal, Parliamentary Secretary to Minister of Health]

Mr. Speaker, I thank my colleague for his question.

In reality, when it is said that 45,000 Canadians die each year from tobacco-related diseases, this means one adult in four dies in this way. This is an extremely serious situation, and we have spent about $120 million in the past four or five years on anti-smoking campaigns.

The series of ads to which my colleague is referring was very effective, and we want to go even further in our anti-smoking campaign.

Agriculture

[Rick Casson, Reform, Lethbridge, AB]

Mr. Speaker, yesterday the finance minister told Canadians that there should not be a debate about numbers. At the same time the Prime Minister has chosen to hide behind some very slippery numbers.

The farm crisis is not about numbers. We have to get past that. It is about people. It is about families. It is about parents who cannot afford to take care of their children. It is about losing a way of life that has existed in the country for generations.

Why is the government choosing to stand behind some slippery numbers instead of facing the people they are destroying?

[Lyle Vanclief, Liberal, Minister of Agriculture and Agri-Food]

Mr. Speaker, we have not stood behind numbers. We come out with facts when the facts are there. We explain those facts in co-operation with everybody else.

Because we do not believe in providing no support like the Reform Party does, we put forward $900 million. We have changed the program and we are not finished announcing support yet. I look forward to providing even more assistance.

Off Reserve Aboriginal People

[André Bachand, Progressive Conservative, Richmond—Arthabaska, QC]

Mr. Speaker, the federal government is ignoring its responsibilities by failing to include native people not living on reserves in its programs and funding.

In the Marshall decision, the government is once again giving a restrictive interpretation to the decision by the supreme court in refusing to consider off reserve aboriginal people.

Why is the Minister of Indian Affairs content to be responsible for aboriginal people living on the reserve but not those living off it?

[Ralph Goodale, Liberal, Minister of Natural Resources and Minister responsible for the Canadian Wheat Board]

Mr. Speaker, the legal responsibility in the law with respect to first nations people living on reserves is clearly with the Government of Canada.

In relation to other aboriginal peoples, the solutions that we need to find in the country to enhance our relationship with aboriginal people and improve their quality of life is a partnership arrangement involving not just the Government of Canada but also the provinces and all others, including those in the private sector who can make a genuine contribution.

We all need to take this issue fundamentally very seriously.

Agriculture

[John Solomon, NDP, Regina—Lumsden—Lake Centre, SK]

Mr. Speaker, the agriculture minister's farm income projections for Saskatchewan are deeply flawed.

Saskatchewan government officials say that input costs like fuel have skyrocketed, not dropped like he says. Revenues will be less than he claims on durum and other items. So far there have been $325 million in errors and counting. In western Canada there have been bogus projections from a discredited Liberal government.

At least Trudeau was honest enough to just give us the finger. Why will the minister not admit that there is a real farm income crisis and announce some real farm aid now?

[Lyle Vanclief, Liberal, Minister of Agriculture and Agri-Food]

Mr. Speaker, we recognized that a long time ago. That is why we have done what we have done. That is why we are continuing to find ways in which we can do more.

Taxation

[John Herron, Progressive Conservative, Fundy Royal, NB]

Mr. Speaker, in yesterday's economic fiscal update the Minister of Finance claimed the government was committed to helping children.

The minister can start helping children by introducing the option for parents to jointly file their income tax returns using a separate tax table or incorporating the concept of income splitting.

Will the finance minister commit today to investing in the best proven institution for children, the Canadian family, and permit the option of joint filing or income splitting for those Canadian families who choose to do so?

[Paul Martin, Liberal, Minister of Finance]

Mr. Speaker, a Commons subcommittee held hearings and submitted a report on this matter last spring. It was a very valuable report and one that the government has certainly taken into consideration.

The finance committee will now be out. The hon. member is certainly welcome to make representations. As before, we will listen to what the finance committee has to say.