Debates of Feb. 15th, 1999

Taxation

[Scott Brison, Progressive Conservative, Kings—Hants, NS]

Mr. Speaker, Canadians pay the highest income tax in the industrialized world. The Liberals say there was personal income tax relief in last year's budget but the numbers do not add up. Their 1998 budget projections show an increase in personal income tax revenues of $2.6 billion and a further increase of $2.5 billion for this year. So why are the Liberals talking tax cuts and doing tax grabs?

[Jim Peterson, Liberal, Secretary of State (International Financial Institutions)]

Mr. Speaker, tax revenues obviously go up as the number of jobs and working Canadians goes up.

Thank goodness we had a very successful year last year: 450,000 new jobs created, 200,000 of those going to young Canadians. This is why personal income tax revenues are up.

[Scott Brison, Progressive Conservative, Kings—Hants, NS]

Mr. Speaker, perhaps the secretary of state should explain why the unemployment rate in Canada is twice that of the U.S. Maybe he should explain why his government has increased taxes every single year since 1993.

The fact is the Liberals give tax relief through the front door and then they take it through the back door due to bracket creep.

Will the government provide meaningful tax relief tomorrow and reindex the tax brackets, or will this be another give and take budget where it gives the tax relief in the front door and takes it from Canadians through the back door?

[Jim Peterson, Liberal, Secretary of State (International Financial Institutions)]

Mr. Speaker, I have a great deal of respect for the hon. member, except I do not know why he always does it to himself.

The facts are very simple. When we took office following that government we had unemployment at 11.4%. We had unemployment insurance at $3.07 going to $3.30.

We have been able to make very significant dents in both those areas and I am very pleased that we have been able to do it. But it was no thanks to what we inherited.

Health Care

[Grant Hill, Reform, Macleod, AB]

Mr. Speaker, Canadians are paying higher taxes than ever, but receiving less for their health care dollar.

Thanks to the federal government, there are now over 200,000 people on waiting lists.

Can the government tell Canadians how a tax hike results in fewer health services?

[Jim Peterson, Liberal, Secretary of State (International Financial Institutions)]

Mr. Speaker, in terms of tax concessions, in terms of a balanced approach, in terms of paying down the debt, this is what we have undertaken in our last five budgets and which I am sure the hon. member will see reflected in the budget tabled tomorrow.

We are not maniacal about any one particular area. That is why we have adopted the balanced approach.

[Grant Hill, Reform, Macleod, AB]

Perhaps I will try in English, Mr. Speaker, to get my question across to the government. It talks about cutting taxes. Taxes have gone up $1,800 per taxpayer. It talks about protecting health care. Health care has come down $1,150 per taxpayer. The result is 200,000 people on waiting lists today.

How can the government talk about looking after health care when it is wrecking it by its increases in taxes?

[Jim Peterson, Liberal, Secretary of State (International Financial Institutions)]

Mr. Speaker, even when we were running a $43 billion deficit our first priority was to restore $1.5 billion to the transfers for health care. That is where our priorities were. We are very concerned about the level of health care for every Canadian. This is why the Prime Minister, the health minister and the finance minister have said we will be addressing health in tomorrow's budget.

Employment Insurance

[Bernard Bigras, Bloc, Rosemont, QC]

Mr. Speaker, of all the workers protesting EI changes last weekend in the Gaspé, young people are among the hardest hit. Three out of four are without work and do not qualify for benefits.

Although he claims to be improving the outlook for young people by excluding them from EI benefits, is the minister not instead putting them in an even worse situation by requiring them to pay more than their share of the $6 billion annual surplus in the plan?

[Pierre Pettigrew, Liberal, Minister of Human Resources Development]

Mr. Speaker, this is another point on which we differ completely with the Bloc Quebecois, and I am very proud to say so. Here we have a party that says young people should be encouraged to remain unemployed.

What we are saying is that young people must be encouraged to stay in school as long as possible because that is the surest way to a secure livelihood.

What we have come up with is the youth employment strategy, which provides on-the-job experience that they can include in their CVs, thus bettering their chances of entering the labour market.

[Bernard Bigras, Bloc, Rosemont, QC]

Mr. Speaker, if the minister can boast of supplying the Minister of Finance with a $6 billion surplus from the EI fund, does that not show that he is more interested in protecting the image of the government than that of unemployed workers?

[Pierre Pettigrew, Liberal, Minister of Human Resources Development]

Mr. Speaker, it is truly pathetic.

The figures show that, in 1998, 143,000 jobs were created for young people, a 20-year high. Last month alone, in January 1999, we created 44,000 full-time jobs for Canadian youth.

That is what young people want: help in entering the job market.

Taxation

[Dick Harris, Reform, Prince George—Bulkley Valley, BC]

Mr. Speaker, I know that between the finance minister and the secretary of state they possess at least a basic understanding of simple arithmetic.

They have said they have increased taxes by $1,800 and have cut health care by $1,100.

My question for the secretary of state is how in his realm of understanding of arithmetic does he think Canadians should rejoice in any form about this record?

[Jim Peterson, Liberal, Secretary of State (International Financial Institutions)]

Mr. Speaker, the tax burden in Canada, among the G-7, is about in the middle. In that area we recognize that our personal income taxes are higher than in any of the other G-7 countries. This is why last year we began the process of overall personal income tax reductions.

If he is talking about arithmetic, maybe the hon. member could explain to us how, in the Reform budget, they have a $9 billion black hole of cuts and they will not even tell us what they are.

[Dick Harris, Reform, Prince George—Bulkley Valley, BC]

Mr. Speaker, if the secretary of state would like to read our plan for this country and the budget maybe he would understand what we are talking about.

The fact is being at the very top of the G-7 countries in tax levels does not sound like the middle to me. Canadians have had tax increases of $1,800 since 1993. Their health care has gone down by $1,100 per taxpayer.

I want to know what the secretary of state thinks can possibly be good for Canadians on that kind of record. What is good about it?

[Jim Peterson, Liberal, Secretary of State (International Financial Institutions)]

Mr. Speaker, I can assure the House that, unlike the Reform budget, our budget will build in prudence factors. It will not assume 5.5% growth rates for each of the next three years. We will not have a $9 billion black hole of spending cuts without telling Canadians where. We will not imperil our hard won economic credibility by impossible promises.

Employment Insurance

[Michel Gauthier, Bloc, Roberval, QC]

Mr. Speaker, because the Bloc Quebecois defends people who are unemployed, because the Bloc Quebecois demands only justice for those who contribute to employment insurance, the minister treats us as old fogeys. We are old fogeys because we seek justice, because we want an honest government.

I would ask the minister, if he does not want to meet the same fate as his predecessor, Doug Young, who was shut out by the people of New Brunswick because he refused to listen to them, whether it would not be wiser for him to be attentive—

[The Speaker]

The Minister of Human Resources Development.

[Pierre Pettigrew, Liberal, Minister of Human Resources Development]

Mr. Speaker, I will not ask the member for Roberval today to explain why his party dropped from 49% to 38% of the votes in the last election.

I will say, however, that if I look at events in the Gaspé—we mentioned this earlier—I could perhaps tell him we established a $20 million Quebec coastal fund. What is the Quebec coastal fund? Two hundred and three projects over the past year, which created the 560 jobs in coastal Quebec we mentioned earlier.

[Michel Gauthier, Bloc, Roberval, QC]

Mr. Speaker, if it gives the minister pleasure, he can come and try his hand in Roberval if he likes.

Tomorrow, with the budget speech, will the Minister of Human Resources Development understand that it is not the Minister of Finance who is the focus of people's concerns, but rather the Minister of Human Resources Development, whose effectiveness will be determined by his ability to return to the unemployed and to workers their due?

[Pierre Pettigrew, Liberal, Minister of Human Resources Development]

Mr. Speaker, the member for Roberval can come and try his hand in Papineau—Saint-Denis as well. His colleague from Beauharnois—Salaberry tried that during the byelection and we saw that the popularity of the Bloc had dropped as well in the riding of Papineau—Saint-Denis at that point.

I can tell him that my effectiveness in tomorrow's budget can already be measured, since we have already announced a permanent youth employment strategy of $155 million.

We have already announced we will be continuing with the Canada job creation fund. So there will be things in tomorrow's budget we have announced, which represent very good news for workers and the unemployed.

Health Care

[Gerry Ritz, Reform, Battlefords—Lloydminster, SK]

Mr. Speaker, the reality of life in Canada today is that while our tax burden has risen 37 times, health spending has fallen by over $1,100 per person putting over 200,000 people on waiting lists.

How can the government claim to be a tax cutter and health saver when the facts prove we are paying more and getting less?

[Jim Peterson, Liberal, Secretary of State (International Financial Institutions)]

Mr. Speaker, Canadians have a right to know what it is exactly that the Reform Party is proposing. “Securing Your Future” refers to $1.1 billion in cuts to EI benefits, $1 billion in cuts to equalization, $1.1 billion in cuts to regional economic development. At the same time it would cut EI by 28% but to employers only. Those are Reform's priorities.

[Gerry Ritz, Reform, Battlefords—Lloydminster, SK]

Mr. Speaker, the reality of health care spending right now is that 30% is private funding, 60% comes from the provinces and 10% from the federal government. That is really saving health care for the future, is it not?

How can the government be wringing record high levels of taxes from Canadians? It is sucking the lifeblood out of the health system. We are paying more and getting less. Why?

[Jim Peterson, Liberal, Secretary of State (International Financial Institutions)]

Mr. Speaker, again that is the party that was calling for a two tier health care system, one designed to penalize the poor.

We are the party that restored $1.5 billion as our first spending priority for health care. This is the government which has brought in about 12 different health care measures in past budgets. This is the party that is committed to making tomorrow's budget a health care budget.