Debates of Feb. 15th, 1999

Division No. 316

[John McKay, Liberal, Scarborough East, ON]

Mr. Speaker, I was with the hon. parliamentary secretary until he got to his last point and then one does not necessarily need to comment on the patently obvious.

I appreciate the hon. member's intervention which I think is actually quite enlightening and very helpful. The point in the illustration I was trying to draw was on the issue of mobility. In truth there should really be no impediment on the part of any student anywhere in the country to go to the university of his or her choice.

While I would not necessarily want to pursue the Queen's-McGill dialogue, except over a football game and a beer, as I write the cheque for my son in the fall I am concerned that if he chooses to go to an out of province school I will be writing a far heftier cheque.

I would also adopt the hon. member's position that the provinces are to be congratulated in keeping their educational costs somewhat in line. This government has done a great deal by the $2.5 billion it put up for millennial scholarship money. That is one of the reasons these kinds of numbers can be kept in line. I hearken back to the sitting of the finance committee. President Pritchard came before our committee and congratulated the federal government on its $2.5 billion initiative.

[Gordon Earle, NDP, Halifax West, NS]

Mr. Speaker, the hon. member in his dissertation on equalization touched on tuition and expressed his concerns about the effect that equalization may have on tuition fees for students.

I ask the hon. member if he would have as much concern for the recent change in government policy which prevents students who are hard pressed and who are experiencing extreme financial difficulty from declaring bankruptcy until after 10 years has expired. This really works to discriminate against youth.

When we talk about encouraging students to go to university certainly this policy has an adverse effect further down the road. Does the member have any concern about that policy?

[John McKay, Liberal, Scarborough East, ON]

Mr. Speaker, I do not think I was linking tuition and equalization directly. My point was on the issue of mobility, that this was a statement of values, that students should not be impeded in terms of their ability to go from province to province for the course outline they wish as they pursue master and doctoral programs independent of considerations as to whether one is on one side of a border or the other.

As to the financial issues, again, we have put up $2.5 billion for scholarship money. That is fresh money available to students. The only issue I have with respect to the bankruptcy provision has to do with the abuse that was going on with respect to the never-never payment plan. We were having students graduate and in three, four or five years they had achieved a certain financial security and then they were simply walking away from the liability.

[Gerry Ritz, Reform, Battlefords—Lloydminster, SK]

Mr. Speaker, it is a pleasure to rise today to discuss the equalization bill. I join my colleagues on this side of the House in condemning the irresponsible panic the government uses to introduce legislation in this place. To compound that, about an hour ago we had the 46th time that time allocation or closure has been moved since the Liberals took power in 1993.

There is a list of comments that could be made by the members from that side in the way they handled time allocation when it was used against them in a couple of government situations before that. I will not get into that today.

This is not the first time this cabinet has waited until the last minute to bring in time sensitive financial bills with no consultation or material circulated so that all members of parliament and their constituents can get a good, hard look at what is being proposed.

In the case of Bill C-65 we have the even greater absurdity of having this dumped in our laps, so the government knew it would have to take a look at the equalization legislation formula every five years. We knew this was coming. It is nothing new.

The auditor general several times has reminded the government through his annual recommendations to reform the structure of equalization, but like so many other worthwhile things that he has had to say lately, it has been totally ignored.

The opposition and by extension all Canadians outside government circles were given three sitting days notice to consider $35 billion in spending that will extend well into the mandate of the next government. As the old saw goes, haste makes waste, and this government has made haste an art form.

Bill C-65 introduces some new variables into an equation that is already so complex that even its authors have trouble understanding it. How else can we explain the fact that three years out of five the formula for figuring out the amounts to be doled out has to resort to exceptions and special definitions.

The formula, in other words, cannot even describe what the government has in mind for all this money it hands out. I equate this equalization system with the so-called simplicity of the new gun registry which one member opposite compared to the simplicity of the tax code. It never seems to occur to this government that there is something wrong with a tax code that runs to 1,600 pages and still requires thousands of legal opinions every year.

It does not seem to bother this government that it has spent $200 million on a gun registry with more waste on the way as it struggles to make it work. No one knows exactly what is supposed to be accomplished by it.

Equalization as practised by this government suffers from the same disease. It is complex, unaccountable, ineffective and unworkable. On top of built-in special terms and evasions this government has had to write up special deals with two so-called have not provinces so that, we presume, they can be even more equal than the other have nots.

It has occurred to me that if Nova Scotia and Newfoundland get special discounts on their oil revenues maybe my home province of Saskatchewan can make a deal on casino revenues which are now to be considered part of the province's fiscal status. In future will we see three levels of consideration for lottery revenues like we are looking at for oil in those other two provinces? Will there be special calculations for lottery tickets versus roulette wheel contributions?

Saskatchewan plans to take a major hit on gaming revenues as, right or wrong, it has built up quite a nest egg over the last couple of years from that source. We cannot be sure that gambling even represents net revenue in the broadest sense. When we take out the social ramifications and the costs to families and so on, is there anything there that we really want to take a look at taxing?

When the federal government counts the gross amount donated to one arm bandits, lottery retailers, will it subtract the social cost of gambling addictions and the resulting family break-ups? Will it take into account the fact that gambling money may simply be money taken from some other spending? Will it take into account, as the member for Surrey Central mentioned on Monday, the example of Windsor, Ontario? There is a great glittering casino there surrounded by boarded-up restaurants and shops, and Windsor is at least on the boarder with Detroit, a large population base to draw from. One could argue that we are fleecing Americans for their loose change, but that is not a likely outlet for rural Saskatchewan.

I am not trying to argue that provinces should be able to collect billions from their own jurisdiction and pick up handouts from Ontario, Alberta and B.C. as well. Quite the contrary. The fact that ten provinces and soon to be three territories exist as autonomous jurisdictions means that all these governments have different ways to fulfil the ambitions and desires of their local populations.

The equalization plan this government is still tinkering with, in fact making even more complex, does not even want to recognize this. The equalization wants to arbitrarily level the playing field by chopping down all the trees and filling in the ditches. It forgets there are reasons why some people need those forests.

[The Speaker]

My colleague, I see that you are just getting into the body of your speech. I was wondering if we could intervene now. You still have about 15 minutes left. I would rather stop you here than have you get half way in. We will now proceed to Statements by Members.

National Flag Day

[Bryon Wilfert, Liberal, Oak Ridges, ON]

Mr. Speaker, today we are celebrating the anniversary of Canada's national flag.

Our flag was raised for the first time in 1965 and for the past 34 years has been a most prominent symbol of our identity and our sense of belonging to Canada. Because it represents our achievements and hopes, our aspirations and all things that we hold dear in this country, because it illustrates 132 years of collective history, the maple leaf inspires a profound feeling of pride in each of us.

Because it symbolizes the values we hold dear, freedom, tolerance, compassion and understanding, and because it recalls Canada's role in defence of human rights and in peacekeeping and rescue missions abroad, the Canadian flag has become the emblem of democracy all around the world.

I hope that the anniversary of the Canadian flag will strengthen our sense of belonging and our faith in this country as today and every day we realize the tremendous blessings of belonging to this vast and beautiful land.

And The Winner Is—

[Myron Thompson, Reform, Wild Rose, AB]

Mr. Speaker, I am sure most of the House is aware of the upcoming academy awards. A special list of political awards was leaked from Oscar headquarters and here it is.

Best actor in a supporting role, General Baril in his riveting role as a scapegoat in the recent blockbuster Last Flight From Whistler.

For best actor award the nominees are: the Minister of Health for his almost lifelike portrayal of a lawyer as a caring health minister; the Minister of Finance in the Great Houdini and his portrait of a man with his hands in his own pockets while still magically picking the pockets of every Canadian; the Minister of Justice for an exquisite performance in Annie Get Your Gun, a moving story of a young woman, her cat and her fear of rural Canadians; the Minister of Canadian Heritage for a delightful remake of Citizen Kane, remember whoever controls the press controls the people.

And the big winner tonight is the Prime Minister for his Forest Gump-like portrayal of the little guy from Shawinigan. Life is not like a box of chocolates, it is like a monopoly game, and sometimes you are forced to sell your hotel.

Heritage Day

[Eleni Bakopanos, Liberal, Ahuntsic, QC]

Mr. Speaker, today is Heritage Day.

Heritage is everything that links together people, places and things, everything that ensures continuity between past, present and future.

Let us take advantage of this special occasion to celebrate our heritage, to discover and explore it, to learn more about it, to steep ourselves in all the richness of our culture.

Our writers, artists, dancers and creators tell us and the world about the wonders of being Canadian. We work diligently at preserving our stories for the benefit of current and future generations.

In our heritage institutions we have collections that represent the broad and diverse history of the people who made and make up a country.

Our system of national parks, national historic sites and monuments enables Canadians to enjoy firsthand our natural environment and learn about the people and places which shape the country.

Let us today thank our ancestors for the truly rich Canadian heritage we all enjoy.

United Way

[Brenda Chamberlain, Liberal, Guelph—Wellington, ON]

Mr. Speaker, I congratulate the United Way and community services of Guelph—Wellington for their successful fund raising effort. Through the generosity of local businesses and residents the United Way raised close to $1.6 million.

The theme of this year's campaign was “the best way to help someone you know”, and it truly was. The money raised will be used to support United Way's 43 local agencies that provide services for children, youth, families and seniors. It will also fund projects aimed at resolving critical issues in addressing the needs of the community.

I also thank the many people who donated their time and made this success possible. Once again the Guelph—Wellington spirit of volunteerism and generosity has made us proud.

National Parole Board

[Lynn Myers, Liberal, Waterloo—Wellington, ON]

Mr. Speaker, addressing the distinctive needs and interests of aboriginal offenders has long been of vital importance to the Nation Parole Board.

Aboriginal people are widely overrepresented in federal corrections. While they represent 3% of Canada's total population, they account for nearly 15% of the incarcerated population. That proportion is even higher in the prairie provinces.

The disproportionate number of incarcerated aboriginal offenders presents significant challenges that can only be met with cross-cultural awareness, sensitivity, creativity and innovation. One of the most recent innovations introduced by the National Parole Board has been the use of native elders to assist at parole hearings.

Another innovation, which is still very much in the experimental stage, is the concept of releasing circles as an alternative to more traditional methods of assessing community support.

The 100th anniversary of conditional release in Canada and the 40th anniversary of the National Parole Board provide the House with a unique opportunity to recognize all their good work.

Families

[Eric C. Lowther, Reform, Calgary Centre, AB]

Mr. Speaker, today is family day in Alberta and I rise to pay tribute to the over 700,000 families in my home province.

The family is important to Albertans as they recognize that it is society's fundamental social unit, the centre for social, educational, economic and spiritual life, and is the cradle of life itself, providing a safe and secure environment in which to nurture, teach and love our children.

Many Albertans are concerned about the state of the family due in part to the heavily intrusive high tax policies of the government. Families in Alberta are not alone in calling for less burdensome government. Today's Compas poll indicates that nine of ten Canadians want tax cuts and the federal debt to be paid down.

Tax and spend has to end. It is time to allow Canadian families to determine their priorities with their own money.

National Parole Board

[Jacques Saada, Liberal, Brossard—La Prairie, QC]

Mr. Speaker, today is the 40th anniversary of the National Parole Board, and I would like to pay tribute to this institution.

It has undergone many changes over the years. Today, board members are selected by a process which determines the best qualified candidates; they are given the best possible training.

Parole decisions are no longer made in secret. Board members' performances are evaluated and they are guided by a code of ethics.

The parole board we have today is one that makes decisions in a professional manner. It enjoys an international reputation, and is made up of close to 2,000 parole officers, assisted by numerous NGOs such as the Salvation Army, and the John Howard, Elizabeth Fry and St. Leonard's societies.

I would like to take advantage of this anniversary to tell the members and employees of the board that they have every right to be proud of their accomplishments in ensuring the safety and protection of all Canadians.

1949 Strike Of Asbestos Workers

[Jean-Guy Chrétien, Bloc, Frontenac—Mégantic, QC]

Mr. Speaker, 50 years ago, asbestos miners staged one of the most important strikes in Quebec's history. This work stoppage marked a turning point in the province's labour relations.

Although they did not know it, these striking workers laid the groundwork for the sweeping social movement in Quebec known as the Quiet Revolution.

We must pay tribute to all these workers, whose courage, solidarity and determination played such a key role in the development of Quebec's labour movement. They fought for decent wages, of course, but more importantly, they fought to improve the inhumane working conditions in the asbestos mines of that era.

To all these brave miners, from all the workers of Quebec, we say “Thank you” from the bottom of our hearts.

Suicide Prevention Week

[Bernard Patry, Liberal, Pierrefonds—Dollard, QC]

Mr. Speaker, this weekend marked the beginning of suicide prevention week, a week to draw attention to an increasingly disturbing phenomenon in our society.

In Quebec, 1,445 people committed suicide in 1995 and 1,478 did so in 1996. There was also a very disturbing trend, with men committing 79% of suicides between 1994 and 1997. Furthermore, between 1990 and 1997, the suicide rate climbed by 13%.

Suicide represents a rejection of life but, above all, an expression of extreme distress in the face of situations felt to be insurmountable.

We must not turn a deaf ear to these cries for help, which often come from loved ones in our immediate circle.

Kosovo

[Bob Mills, Reform, Red Deer, AB]

Mr. Speaker, today the two sides in the Kosovo crisis are sitting down face to face and trying to reach some type of settlement. The clock is ticking and the deadline of Saturday noon has been set.

It is time Canada addresses our involvement in a NATO led force. We first have to ask what is the mandate. Then we have many questions that must be answered including the following.

Do we support a referendum on separation in three years in Kosovo? Do we have a long term plan? If we bomb what do we bomb? If we send ground troops will they simply serve as police with big sticks, or will they attempt to build a long term solution? How long will the mission last? What will the mission cost? Do we have the manpower and equipment? What will we do with the refugees? How will we keep this issue from spreading to surrounding countries?

The government will come in and say that we must hold a quick take note debate. That is not good enough this time. We need some answers first.

Public Consultation

[Andy Scott, Liberal, Fredericton, NB]

Mr. Speaker, public consultation continues to be one of my major commitments as the member of parliament for Fredericton.

Since being elected to parliament in 1993 I have held more than 30 people's forums on topics from health care to gun control to seniors issues. I plan to hold several forums this year with the first being held Sunday, February 21, on the campus of the University of New Brunswick. The topic of the forum, which is being held in conjunction with Fredericton's two universities, UNB and St. Thomas, is the role of our universities in the community.

We will be engaging in discussion and debate with the community on a wide range of issues, including the role of universities in a changing society, how post-secondary education should be funded, how to successfully market research and development innovations on the global market and what we can do to address student debt.

I invite everyone in the riding of Fredericton to attend this important forum on Sunday and look forward to a lively and informative discussion.

Cape Breton

[Alexa McDonough, NDP, Halifax, NS]

Mr. Speaker, yesterday Cape Bretoners gathered in Glace Bay. In the words of one coal miner's wife “it was the day of love, an intense love for our families, for each other and for the beautiful island of Cape Breton”.

They came together to tell one another that despite hard times they would stand united, to remind one another of the island's greatest strength, its proud people, and to assure one another that so long as their values remain strong there is a future for their children. They came together with one voice to say we believe in our communities and we believe in our ability to rebuild our lives.

They deserve our respect in their battle for dignity. They deserve fair compensation as the government withdraws from the Cape Breton coal industry. The beautiful voice of Aselin Debinson expressed it best when she belted out “We are a people as proud as there's been”.

Chevalier De Lorimier

[Francine Lalonde, Bloc, Mercier, QC]

Mr. Speaker, on February 15, 1839, Chevalier De Lorimier and five of his fellow Patriots were executed for wanting democracy to be fully exercised in the colony of Lower Canada.

Rising up in arms after the British governor put a price on Papineau's head, the Patriots saw Colborne's army put several villages to fire and the sword.

In Upper Canada, the insurrection and ensuing repression were not as fierce as they were in Lower Canada, although 20 of Mackenzie's comrades were also executed.

In 1938, in Niagara, his grandson, Prime Minister Mackenzie King, inaugurated an arch erected in memory of the martyrs of the rebellion.

He said “This arch symbolizes the conquest of ideas and ideals”.

In 1967, this arch was demolished for dubious reasons. On this February 15, let us commemorate the glorious death of these martyrs of democracy.

Raf Ferry Command

[Sheila Finestone, Liberal, Mount Royal, QC]

Mr. Speaker, regretfully Canadians who volunteered to serve with RAF Ferry Command are forgotten World War II veterans although they have limited eligibility in several veterans programs.

During the darkest period for the allies these civilian airmen and women were recruited to fly urgently needed bombers, patrol aircraft and supply transports through the unchartered North Atlantic to Europe. By war's end accidents claimed over 500 air crew and passengers, among them Sir Frederick Banting, the discoverer of insulin.

Theirs was not only a military contribution but also to aviation history. The Ferry Command created the basis for the network of northern and international air routes that commercial travellers now take for granted.

To quote advocate Louis Lang of the Ferry Command Association speaking for the 28 remaining men:

All veterans were civilians when they enlisted. It was their service to their country that earned them the title of veteran.

It is for these Canadian air and ground crews who served in the theatre of war that I am seeking veterans status so they can finish their twilight years with the honours they have rightly earned.

Highways

[Norman E. Doyle, Progressive Conservative, St. John's East, NL]

Mr. Speaker, the existence of the toll highway in New Brunswick and Nova Scotia is an affront to all Canadians. To note that it is also part of the so-called Trans-Canada Highway only doubles the insult.

Back in the days when it was the government's duty to provide basic services, the construction of the Trans-Canada system was seen as a federal government priority. These days we have the federal government subsidizing the construction of a privately owned toll road that receives all westbound traffic from Newfoundland and the maritimes.

We are not in the United States. Up here it is the crown's job to build and maintain roads. As long as we pay our taxes we should be allowed to walk or ride on them free. This is a tax on transportation for all Atlantic Canadians.

I call on the federal government to intervene in this matter and have these tolls removed immediately so that the free flow of traffic from east to west can continue unimpeded.

Agriculture

[John Harvard, Liberal, Charleswood—Assiniboine, MB]

Mr. Speaker, on December 10 the Minister for Agriculture and Agri-Food announced the federal government's commitment to assist financially strapped farmers. The $900 million federal contribution would grow to $1.5 billion with full provincial participation in the program.

This short term relief package will help producers who have been caught by disastrous farm commodity prices and who are in the middle of an American-European subsidy war.

So far all provinces except Manitoba have joined the program. It is time for the Manitoba provincial government to act. The foot dragging must stop. Many Manitoba farmers are hurting. They want a commitment from their provincial government.

Manitoba farmers know they can count on the federal government to do its share. To be fully effective, however, the program requires full provincial participation. The Manitoba government should not take its farmers for granted.

I urge the province of Manitoba to join us today in helping our farmers.

National Parole Board

[Richard Marceau, Bloc, Charlesbourg, QC]

Mr. Speaker, the Bloc Quebecois is pleased to acknowledge the 40th anniversary of the National Parole Board. By the conscientious work of its staff, the National Parole Board is showing the inmate population and the general public that offenders can successfully be rehabilitated.

Our society has come to realize that the supervised release of offenders could produce more positive results than the repressive, exemplary imprisonment system, which some in this country like to promote.

In fact, for reasons of effectiveness and efficiency, the Standing Committee on Justice recently undertook the five-year review of the Corrections and Conditional Release Act. The Bloc Quebecois will be working at modernizing and improving this important rehabilitation tool.

We cannot let this jubilee of the National Parole Board go unnoticed.

Canadian Flag

[Ken Epp, Reform, Elk Island, AB]

Mr. Speaker, it was on this day in 1965 that the Maple Leaf was adopted as the new Canadian flag. I was a young high school teacher at the time and I remember the debate that took place.

Though many people were adamantly opposed to the adoption of the Maple Leaf as our flag, we have now come to accept it as the symbol of Canadian identity. I think it is wonderful to have this symbol recognized around the world.

We are a highly respected country and being able to display the flag in most parts of Canada and freely around the world is important to us. I see more and more people flying the flag at their homes and businesses, not because they got them at taxpayers expense but because they are feeling more devoted and loyal to this wonderful country.

I hope we will now build on what this flag represents: a country known for its freedoms and opportunities. It is with optimism and hope that I pledge to continue working for a new Canada. I hope that we will soon be able to replace this dinosaur Liberal government that keeps trying to take away our individual and collective freedoms.

The Budget

[Nelson Riis, NDP, Kamloops, BC]

Mr. Speaker, anybody that has been listening to the comments of the Minister of Finance lately to see the trail of balloons he has been floating will be of the mind that the old trickle down economics is returning, where the pump is primed in terms of selected tax cuts and some special grants with the benefits trickling down.

Canadians are fed up with being trickled on. They want this to stop. They will be watching carefully tomorrow when the Minister of Finance stands in his place. They do not want any more trickling on Canadians. They want some real action for those in need.

Taxation

[Monte Solberg, Reform, Medicine Hat, AB]

Mr. Speaker, a new poll in the National Post has Canadians demanding substantial tax relief. In fact nine out of ten Canadians want to see the government deliver major tax cuts tomorrow.

What is the government doing instead? It is giving us the shell game. Why is the finance minister giving a loonie with one hand and taking a toonie with the other hand when it comes to taxes and health care?