Debates of Feb. 16th, 1999

Taxation

[Dick Harris, Reform, Prince George—Bulkley Valley, BC]

Mr. Speaker, considering that the government has raised taxes by $1,800 per taxpayer in this country, why is it raising taxes again in 1999, in today's budget? Why is the government doing it again? What is the reason?

[Jean Chrétien, Liberal, Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, in an hour and 53 minutes we will know exactly what the tax cuts are. But the opposition should know already that in December we reduced taxes when we reduced the EI premiums by more than $1 billion.

Hopefully, but I do not know absolutely, there will be a very good budget again. What will happen is the budget will be a success and the great meeting of this weekend will be another flop for the Reform.

Employment Insurance

[Gilles Duceppe, Bloc, Laurier—Sainte-Marie, QC]

Mr. Speaker, in the coming days, the Minister of Finance will be making a grand tour of the country touting the merits and the generosity of the government. He is being generous with our money.

I would like to know whether the Minister of Human Resources Development will go along with him on his tour to explain to Canadians and Quebeckers that the unemployed pay for the Minister of Finance's generosity.

[Pierre Pettigrew, Liberal, Minister of Human Resources Development]

Mr. Speaker, I will not have the pleasure of accompanying my colleague the Minister of Finance, because I myself will be promoting the budget, which looks very interesting for all Canadians and certainly for Quebeckers too.

The initial figures I have seen are very relevant to the concerns of Canadians. This is true as well for Quebeckers, who are very concerned about health care. I think there will be good news for Bernard Landry.

We will see what the Minister of Finance does this afternoon, but I think we will have a balanced budget. There are a lot of good measures for workers, to help them return to the labour market.

[Gilles Duceppe, Bloc, Laurier—Sainte-Marie, QC]

Mr. Speaker, does the Minister of Human Resources Development realize that the more the Minister of Finance boasts today about being generous, the more stingy the Minister of Human Resources Development will have to be with the unemployed, because one funds the other, and he is the Minister of Finance's cash cow in the name of the unemployed?

[Pierre Pettigrew, Liberal, Minister of Human Resources Development]

Mr. Speaker, I understand that the leader of the Bloc Quebecois is somewhat nervous. Even the CBC yesterday was saying that the Government of Quebec and minister Landry could meet their objective of zero deficit with some of this afternoon's announcements. That must upset the Bloc Quebecois a bit.

What I can say is that we are strict managers, that we have implemented an employment insurance reform that is intended to help workers remain in the labour market and the unemployed to return to it. That is a good balance and sound management.

[Paul Crête, Bloc, Kamouraska—Rivière-Du-Loup—Témiscouata—Les Basques, QC]

Mr. Speaker, the Minister of Human Resources Development already has the 1998 employment insurance program performance report in his hands.

We have been waiting for him to make up his mind to table that report since last December.

What is the minister's explanation for not having made his report public, if it is not that his buddy in Finance did not want to see it released before today's budget?

[Pierre Pettigrew, Liberal, Minister of Human Resources Development]

Mr. Speaker, I can assure you that the report will be tabled as required by law within the first 30 days of the 1999 session.

Perhaps it will finally enable us to have an intelligent debate with the Bloc Quebecois instead of constantly having to settle for anecdotes and elements of no particular interest.

I trust that this report will also enable us to examine the great job creation figures for January, as 87,000 jobs were created in Canada in January alone, 44,000 of them for young people.

[Paul Crête, Bloc, Kamouraska—Rivière-Du-Loup—Témiscouata—Les Basques, QC]

Mr. Speaker, by hiding this report on the problems with employment insurance, is the Minister of Human Resources Development not acting in complicity with the Minister of Finance, he who is pillaging the employment insurance fund, instead of fulfilling his duty to defend the unemployed?

[Pierre Pettigrew, Liberal, Minister of Human Resources Development]

Mr. Speaker, I wish to assure the House that our government is working extremely hard to ensure that there is as little unemployment as possible in Canada. In so doing, we are fulfilling our duty as a government to create a sound economy.

I can assure you that the employment insurance system has been there for the large majority of unemployed persons who have been working in recent months. We have work force integration programs, a youth employment strategy to help young people to get into the work force instead of being unemployed.

Pensions

[Lorne Nystrom, NDP, Qu'Appelle, SK]

Mr. Speaker, my question is for the President of the Treasury Board.

The President of the Treasury Board is once again a compulsive fund raider. After taking some billions of dollars from the unemployment insurance account, the Liberal government now wants to seize a $30 billion surplus from the public service, armed forces and the RCMP pension funds.

I am giving the minister a chance to speak directly to the 358,000 public sector workers and tell them why he is taking $30 billion from their future pension benefits. Why is he doing that?

[Marcel Massé, Liberal, President of the Treasury Board and Minister responsible for Infrastructure]

Mr. Speaker, I am quite glad to give the explanation which by the way is accepted by the actuaries, by the accountants, by the lawyers, by the auditor general. It is very clear that the government guarantees the outcome to its civil servants. The outcome is that they will be paid a pension once they retire, and we continue to guarantee these benefits.

The deficits and the surpluses which are in the accounts are created by accountants. They do not belong there and in fact have to go back to the taxpayers who paid for them in the first place.

Public Service

[Peter Stoffer, NDP, Sackville—Eastern Shore, NS]

Mr. Speaker, thousands of taxation employees spent the day at home with full pay while table two blue collar workers walked the picket line from coast to coast.

Last night in Halifax over 400 employees stated that the economic discrimination policy known as regional rates of pay is the number one issue. Instead of avoiding the workers and prolonging the strike, will the minister commit today to sit down at the bargaining table and once and for all negotiate the issue of regional rates of pay?

[Marcel Massé, Liberal, President of the Treasury Board and Minister responsible for Infrastructure]

Mr. Speaker, we have negotiated at table two. We have negotiated terms that are equivalent to the terms accepted by 80% of civil servants.

I think Canadians will make their own judgment about the tactics of the blue collar workers. Up until now these workers have always accepted the fact that a member of parliament is paid differently if he sits in Fredericton than if he sits in Ottawa, in the same way plumbers and electricians have provincial rates that apply because of local market conditions. These regional rates will continue.

Apec Inquiry

[Peter MacKay, Progressive Conservative, Pictou—Antigonish—Guysborough, NS]

Mr. Speaker, yesterday the solicitor general bowed to public pressure and the urgings of Justice Hughes to finally pay the legal fees of the student complainants at the APEC inquiry. Although the government lawyers outnumber those of the students by 25 to 2, at least after 12 days the solicitor general finally read the writing on the wall. Delay and deny have become trademarks of the Liberal government.

Will the solicitor general now indicate just how much the government is willing to spend to ensure fairness? If he is not willing to so indicate, will he tell us when he will?

[Lawrence MacAulay, Liberal, Solicitor General of Canada]

Mr. Speaker, as I indicated yesterday, the payment will be fair and reasonable. It will be done between my office and the public complaints commission.

[Peter MacKay, Progressive Conservative, Pictou—Antigonish—Guysborough, NS]

Mr. Speaker, the government will claim that it has transformed the APEC inquiry into a transparent truth seeking process. However, with the greatest respect to Justice Hughes, a full judicial inquiry would best accomplish this. The chair has stated that he will go where the evidence leads, perhaps to 24 Sussex. He wishes to make it a true and open process.

The question that remains is simple. Will the Prime Minister agree to testify under oath to his actions at the APEC summit?

[Lawrence MacAulay, Liberal, Solicitor General of Canada]

Mr. Speaker, I am sure my hon. colleague is well aware that the public complaints commission is an independent body. For me to indicate who would or would not appear would be totally inappropriate. I do not intend to do that.

[Jim Abbott, Reform, Kootenay—Columbia, BC]

Mr. Speaker, as has been pointed out, the solicitor general finally did that. That makes the situation fair. The question is will it be meaningful. It will be meaningful only if the Prime Minister turns up. He said in this House that everyone in his office and everyone in his government was going to be available for the APEC inquiry. Does that everyone include the Prime Minister?

[Lawrence MacAulay, Liberal, Solicitor General of Canada]

Mr. Speaker, as I indicated before, the public complaints commission is an independent body. Would my hon. colleague and all members let the public complaints commission do its job.

[Jim Abbott, Reform, Kootenay—Columbia, BC]

Mr. Speaker, we get one step forward and two steps back. We get the funding but then we revert to what the former solicitor general used to say.

I remind the Prime Minister that it was he who said in this House that everyone from his office and government were going to be available. He says those words in this House but he sends Ivan Whitehall, his lawyer, to Vancouver to make sure he does not have to go. Why? What are we supposed to believe, the Prime Minister's words or his actions?

[Lawrence MacAulay, Liberal, Solicitor General of Canada]

Mr. Speaker, as the Prime Minister has indicated, he and his ministers will co-operate fully with the public complaints commission. What I would ask my hon. colleague to please do is to let the public complaints commission do what it is to do.

Employment Insurance

[Christiane Gagnon, Bloc, Québec, QC]

Mr. Speaker, yesterday, in response to our questions, the Minister of Human Resources Development accused the Bloc Quebecois of taking a backward step in their desire to protect the unemployed against his incessant attacks.

I would ask the minister whether he considers criticizing someone who plunders the employment insurance fund and uses the money for purposes other than that for which it was intended means taking a backward step?

[Pierre Pettigrew, Liberal, Minister of Human Resources Development]

Mr. Speaker, there has been no misappropriation. Everything is in the books very clearly. The Auditor General of Canada made a decision in 1990, which we respect. We comply with the law, there is no problem in that regard.

However, when I say the Bloc Quebecois wants to take us a step backward, it is because they simply want to keep people unemployed, because they want the unemployed to remain so as long as possible. They do not even take umbrage at the fact that, in January 1999, we created 87,000 jobs in Canada while Quebec lost 1,500.

[Christiane Gagnon, Bloc, Québec, QC]

Mr. Speaker, by cutting benefits to women, is it not the minister who is taking a step backwards and returning the protection afforded women to 1970s levels?