Debates of Feb. 4th, 1999

Water Exports

[Bill Blaikie, NDP, Winnipeg—Transcona, MB]

Mr. Speaker, surely the minister sees the danger in allowing this to drag on as if it were something NAFTA has some effect on.

So I repeat, do the minister and the government not see the wisdom of at least immediately bringing in a moratorium on any bulk freshwater exports at this time in order that we may make absolutely clear our long term intention with respect to this issue?

[Lloyd Axworthy, Liberal, Minister of Foreign Affairs]

Mr. Speaker, the hon. member knows from past debates that the issue debated in the House was whether Canada is obliged under NAFTA to export water. Of course it is not. We now have to determine the most effective means and mechanisms for ensuring Canada can effectively manage its water resources. That includes the very active involvement of the provinces because within their own jurisdictions they have full authority over water resources. We want to make sure we do this in full collaboration.

Human Resources Development Canada

[Jean Dubé, Progressive Conservative, Madawaska—Restigouche, NB]

Mr. Speaker, yesterday the House learned of a Department of Human Resources Development internal document indicating that Treasury Board intends to cut 150 jobs at HRDC.

The Human resources development minister may play with words all he wants, the fact remains that quotas do exist and that jobs will be eliminated if they are not reached.

Can the President of the Treasury Board explain why he is making such threats against HRDC employees?

[Pierre Pettigrew, Liberal, Minister of Human Resources Development]

Mr. Speaker, there is no question of layoffs, as my department's guidelines make absolutely clear. We expect to recover a certain amount of money in each region.

I assure you that all employees in my department are covered by collective agreements and, should there be less work in one area, there will be lots to do elsewhere.

None of our employees has a knife at their throat, but we do want to ensure that the system is fair to all unemployed workers and that the money goes to those who need it.

[Jean Dubé, Progressive Conservative, Madawaska—Restigouche, NB]

Mr. Speaker, this HRDC document proves once again that the Minister of HRDC is not in control of his department.

We have seen him kneel before the Minister of Finance on raiding the EI surplus. Now we see him kneeling before the President of the Treasury Board on quotas and ultimatums.

It is high time he protects his own departmental employees from such intimidation.

Will the minister get off his knees and stand up to his cabinet cronies?

[Pierre Pettigrew, Liberal, Minister of Human Resources Development]

Mr. Speaker, I will not tolerate any harassment by my department. I am telling my agents not to harass the Canadian public. That is absolutely clear.

The government has an obligation to Canadian business and employers to make sure that the funds go to the people who really need them. When there are abuses or mistakes that have been committed, when there is fraud, it is my responsibility and that of our government to see that the money goes to the right people.

There is no harassment and I do not want our employees to harass the Canadian public. Is that clear?

Justice

[John Duncan, Reform, Vancouver Island North, BC]

Mr. Speaker, last Thursday James Staples appeared on charges of possession of child pornography in Courtenay provincial court in British Columbia.

The judge set a trial date for July 12, but said it would be very likely that those charges would be dropped because of Justice Shaw's decision.

Why is the Minister of Justice pretending that all is business as usual in B.C. courts when obviously it is not?

[Anne McLellan, Liberal, Minister of Justice and Attorney General of Canada]

Mr. Speaker, let me say to the hon. member that obviously a trial date was set for July 12.

If for any reason the attorney general of British Columbia feels that a decision is rendered by the judge in that case that interferes with his ability to prosecute those charges he will be able to appeal that decision.

[Chuck Cadman, Reform, Surrey North, BC]

Mr. Speaker, the cancer is spreading. We now have reports of another case being delayed in Alberta, the minister's home province.

I am sure the minister is familiar with the Askov ruling on the charter right to a speedy trial. Last year in B.C. a convicted child molester was set free on Askov. The attorney general's ministry in B.C. is extremely concerned about this issue.

Will the minister ensure British Columbians and all Canadians that when the cases that are now in limbo finally do get to court they will not be thrown out due to lengthy delays?

[Anne McLellan, Liberal, Minister of Justice and Attorney General of Canada]

Mr. Speaker, as I have said before in the House, in provinces like Alberta the child pornography sections of the Criminal Code are in full force and effect.

If the attorney general of Alberta, who has charge of the administration of justice in Alberta, chooses or wishes to appeal any decision of a lower court in relation to any decision regarding the prosecution of a child pornography case he can do so.

Employment Insurance

[Yvan Loubier, Bloc, Saint-Hyacinthe—Bagot, QC]

Mr. Speaker, unemployed workers are not the only targets.

In his memo, Ron Stewart, director general of control and investigation at Human Resources Development, wrote, and I quote “Other savings can be achieved by increasing the number of fines imposed on companies”.

My question is for the Minister of Human Resources Development. Now that the minister has exceeded his quotas for jobless workers, will he confirm that his department has issued a directive asking employees to target companies?

[Pierre Pettigrew, Liberal, Minister of Human Resources Development]

Mr. Speaker, my government and my department have a responsibility to Canadian taxpayers, both individual and corporate.

We do not want any company in Canada to abuse the EI system, because the system has to be there in the long term to provide Canadian workers with the protection they need.

They will therefore do their work diligently, with respect both to companies that abuse the system and to individuals who are the subject of administrative errors.

[Yvan Loubier, Bloc, Saint-Hyacinthe—Bagot, QC]

Mr. Speaker, what sort of government are we dealing with?

On the one hand, it is letting billions of dollars leave the country tax free in family trusts, turning a blind eye to tax evasion by shipping lines, and getting ready to give tax breaks to multimillionaires, while, on the other, it is going after unemployed workers and squeezing them dry.

What sort of government are we dealing with?

[Pierre Pettigrew, Liberal, Minister of Human Resources Development]

Mr. Speaker, we have a good government.

[Some hon. members]

Hear, hear.

[Pierre Pettigrew, Liberal, Minister of Human Resources Development]

We have a government that is doing its job in a balanced way. We also have a government that is capable of compassion. That is not something the opposition has a monopoly on.

Our government restored the youth employment strategy to help hundreds of thousands of young people actively return to the labour market. Our government reintroduced the Canadian job creation fund on a permanent basis in regions with high unemployment.

Our government introduced the national child benefit—

[The Speaker]

The hon. member for Calgary Southeast.

Justice

[Jason Kenney, Reform, Calgary Southeast, AB]

Mr. Speaker, as my colleague said, the cancerous effects of the Shaw decision on kiddie porn are spreading.

In Alberta, William Eric Hughes refused to enter a plea at court. Because of the effect of the Shaw decision, his trial has been delayed until March 3.

As my colleague said, the Askov decision makes it clear that as long as these appeals are delayed we get closer and closer to the possibility of these people walking free, as a convicted child molester did in British Columbia last year.

My question to the minister is—

[Some hon. members]

Oh, oh.

[The Speaker]

Order. I will allow the hon. member to put his question.

[Jason Kenney, Reform, Calgary Southeast, AB]

Mr. Speaker, the question is simply this. How can the minister assure Canadians that the Askov ruling will not let those convicted of these crimes walk free?

[Anne McLellan, Liberal, Minister of Justice and Attorney General of Canada]

Mr. Speaker, the child pornography provisions of the Criminal Code are in full force and effect in the province of Alberta.

I have no doubt that my colleague, the attorney general of Alberta, will pursue any allegations of child pornography to the full extent of the law.

[Jason Kenney, Reform, Calgary Southeast, AB]

Mr. Speaker, I guess the Minister of Justice did not hear my question. The question was not about the attorney general pursuing charges, it was about the effect of the Askov decision which says that a reasonable delay in the appeal process can result in convicted criminals walking free, as happened with a child molester in B.C. last year.

How can she assure Canadians that this will not happen again with respect to those now before the courts on charges of possession of child pornography? How can she assure us of that?

[Anne McLellan, Liberal, Minister of Justice and Attorney General of Canada]

Mr. Speaker, let me say again that in the province of Alberta the child pornography provisions of the Criminal Code are in full force and effect. The attorney general of Alberta will duly prosecute the law.

In addition, the attorney general of Alberta is responsible for the administration of the courts and the resources therefor.

Human Resources Development Canada

[Michel Gauthier, Bloc, Roberval, QC]

Mr. Speaker, this is the first time in the recorded history that a government has established recovery quotas three times higher than the potential value of frauds in a department. In addition, this is the first time employees are being threatened with the loss of their job.

My question is for the Minister of Human Resources Development. Will he acknowledge that Human Resources Development Canada managers have performance bonuses and that their performance is appraised on the basis of the number of investigations done and recoveries made?