Debates of March 23rd, 1999

Nuclear Waste

[Lloyd Axworthy, Liberal, Minister of Foreign Affairs]

Mr. Speaker, I remind the hon. member that we will be tabling a response to the committee before the May 10 deadline. I am sure we will be able to satisfactorily answer the member's questions. I would like to clarify some of the facts the member put forward.

Canada is not under any commitment to have any kind of commercial burning of MOX fuel. The only commitment we have made is to undertake certain tests of very small, minute portions to determine the feasibility.

I am surprised at the hon. member. One of the most serious problems we face in the world is nuclear proliferation. One way to help is to burn up the warheads that Russia wants to destroy. That is why we have made that kind of commitment.

[Svend Robinson, NDP, Burnaby—Douglas, BC]

Mr. Speaker, it is not just this hon. member, it was every Liberal member of the foreign affairs committee that said no to MOX. The House would appreciate a response before the Prime Minister responds to the president of the United States. That might be a little more appropriate.

Why should Canada allow over-flights of plutonium when the United States itself bans those over-flights? Why should Canadian ports like Churchill, Montreal and Halifax take safety and environmental risks? Why should cities like Windsor and Sarnia be exposed to risk? Why will the government not listen to the foreign affairs committee and say no to MOX, period?

[Lloyd Axworthy, Liberal, Minister of Foreign Affairs]

Mr. Speaker, I think I am being very clear to the hon. member. No commitments have been made. There have been no plans for any flights for any transportation. If there were to be any decision of that kind, it would be subject to all environmental safety transport requirements under Canadian legislation.

The point is we live in a dangerous nuclear world. We have some responsibilities to help in the denuclearizing of that world. That is why at the Moscow conference, along with many other countries, we asked what Canada can do to help reduce the nuclear threat. We are simply testing to see if we can make a contribution to that issue.

Building Contracts

[Jim Jones, Progressive Conservative, Markham, ON]

Mr. Speaker, today I received replies from the Business Development Bank of Canada and Canadian economic development to my request under the Access to Information Act. The Business Development Bank of Canada refused to provide any information about Yvon Duhaime while Canadian economic development denied having ever received a loan application from Yvon Duhaime, despite other evidence to the contrary.

In light of the refusal of these departments to clear the air on the Chateau Shawinigan deal, will the Prime Minister use section 11 of the Auditor General's Act to independently verify these shady deals?

[Jean Chrétien, Liberal, Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, again they use all sorts of words. I would like to read to the member what the PQ member of my riding said: “No, no, no. There cannot be favouritism because in this case the Prime Minister did exactly what I did in Quebec City. Meaning that we took our normal government programs and then we obtained a fair share for our own riding”. These are the words of a member of parliament. Every member of parliament does this.

The mayor of Shawinigan said: “Whatever the party, be it at the provincial or federal level, what MP would shortchange his riding by saying I don't work for my riding? I find it deplorable that we slander towns in order to attack the Prime Minister who does his work like any good member”—

[The Speaker]

The hon. member for Markham.

[Jim Jones, Progressive Conservative, Markham, ON]

Mr. Speaker, two wrongs do not make a right. The Prime Minister is hiding. He is hiding behind his cabinet ministers, hiding behind technicalities, even hiding behind his riding separatist politicians. No matter how hard the Prime Minister tries to hide, the inescapable fact remains. He is supporting Yvon Duhaime, a criminal who misled federal officials, and Pierre Thibault, an admitted thief under criminal investigation.

The ethics counsellor has no teeth to investigate the Prime Minister. Why will the Prime Minister not prove there is nothing wrong in these deals and table all documents from this office?

[John Manley, Liberal, Minister of Industry]

Mr. Speaker, with respect to the Business Development Bank of Canada, I think it is quite clear. The member is welcome to look at the facts for himself if he wants. The process of reviewing a loan application was dealt with in the ordinary course of business. The request for access to information is of course subject to the provisions of the act which retain confidential commercial information.

However, if the member wants to go to the registry office he will discover that the Business Development Bank of Canada was not the only source of financing for this project. The fonds de solidarité and the caisse populaire put in money on a commercial basis. That is fundamentally the answer to the member's question.

[Chuck Strahl, Reform, Fraser Valley, BC]

Mr. Speaker, I want to give the Prime Minister an opportunity to correct the record.

He said he sold the golf course in 1993 but he knows full well that he applied to the ethics counsellor, telling him that he did not get paid and by 1996 those shares were back into his hands and now sit with his lawyer. I ask him to correct that statement.

Second, did Yvon Duhaime owe the Prime Minister any money when he received the grants in 1997?

[Jean Chrétien, Liberal, Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, I will answer because I sold the shares in 1993. I was not paid. It is my problem and the shares are still in the hands of the one who has not paid or sold to somebody else.

It is all dealt with by the person who manages the trust of my own affairs. I do not ask them any questions. I do not have the shares. All my assets are controlled, like other members of the cabinet, by the trustee and the trustee decides what to do.

I make it my point not to ask any questions. It is the job of the trustee to decide what to do with my assets.

[Chuck Strahl, Reform, Fraser Valley, BC]

Mr. Speaker, the ethics counsellor says those shares reverted to the Prime Minister on January 28, 1999. His office says they are in the hands of his lawyer, Debbie Weinstein, at this time.

Apparently that is the way this has all happened. Will the Prime Minister table or arrange for that agreement to be tabled in the House of Commons so we can see what happened to the golf course that happens to be right beside Mr. Duhaime's hotel?

[Jean Chrétien, Liberal, Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, my assets are managed by a trustee in what we call a blind trust.

I do not know in English what blind means but it seems that I am not supposed to know what is going on. In 1993 these shares were sold. I needed money and there was no money. It is a big problem but I am still eating three times a day.

The Environment

[Jocelyne Girard-Bujold, Bloc, Jonquière, QC]

Mr. Speaker, we have learned that the Prime Minister wrote to President Clinton on March 3 indicating Canada's interest in receiving Russian or American nuclear arms waste, provided that the project is hazard-free and viable.

How could the Prime Minister have taken this initiative of contacting President Clinton when the foreign affairs committee had examined the issue and requested that the government reject this project?

[Lloyd Axworthy, Liberal, Minister of Foreign Affairs]

Mr. Speaker, once again, the only undertaking we have is to look at some very preliminary tests to determine its application within the AECL nuclear reactor. There is no other commitment than that.

I underline for the hon. member, who I know has an interest in these matters, that we live in a world in which nuclear weapons are proliferated. We have to do our part to help reduce that threat.

The test that will take place will be less than .02 of a kilogram, about the size of an AA battery. I do not think it represents a real threat to Canada but nuclear proliferation represents a threat to all mankind.

[Jocelyne Girard-Bujold, Bloc, Jonquière, QC]

Mr. Speaker, before announcing to the whole world that Canada is prepared to become the nuclear waste dump for the entire planet, can the Prime Minister commit to a full debate on this matter here in the House, given the major impact such a decision could have on future generations?

[Lloyd Axworthy, Liberal, Minister of Foreign Affairs]

Mr. Speaker, as I said before, the government will be tabling its response to the committee. That tabling under House rules gives opportunity for members to raise questions, to generate a debate. We would certainly be glad to engage at that point.

Building Contracts

[Monte Solberg, Reform, Medicine Hat, AB]

Mr. Speaker, we are getting a smokescreen from the Prime Minister. The fact is blind trusts are only used for controlled assets such as shares in the stock exchange or ownership interests in private companies doing extensive business with the federal government. This is not the case with the golf course.

Again, did Duhaime still owe the Prime Minister money when he received his federal grant in 1997?

[Jean Chrétien, Liberal, Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, that is exactly what I have done. To be very prudent I said manage these assets too.

Every commercial activity, the golf course and these shares, was given to my trustee. At one time we wanted to have money and the money did not come. That is all. It is her problem, not mine. She is a competent lawyer and she is doing her job. I put all my assets in the trust. It is a blind trust. I was not forced to give her the management. I did exactly that so I would not have to reply to that type of question.

[Monte Solberg, Reform, Medicine Hat, AB]

Mr. Speaker, Canadians are getting a little sick and tired of the little guy from Shawinigan—

[The Speaker]

Order. I ask hon. members to address each other by their proper titles.

[Monte Solberg, Reform, Medicine Hat, AB]

Mr. Speaker, the question is very straightforward, the same one I asked last time. Did the Prime Minister have money coming from Duhaime when he got the grant in 1997? Will he answer the question?

[Jean Chrétien, Liberal, Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, I am sure I did not because I sold my shares in 1993 and he received the grant four years later in 1997. The trustee was not to be paid by Duhaime but to be paid by the one who was buying the shares. The shares were not bought by Duhaime but by somebody else who has not yet paid me apparently.

Bill C-54

[Francine Lalonde, Bloc, Mercier, QC]

Mr. Speaker, after the CSN and Quebec's Conseil du patronat, this morning the 260,000 professionals in Quebec came to the conclusion that Bill C-54 will create unacceptable duplication.

My question is for the Minister of Industry. Does he recognize that, in addition to creating useless and costly duplication while at the same time reducing the protection of personal information, Bill C-54 will very likely be challenged under the Constitution? As the chair of the committee put it “We will see about this in the supreme court”.

[John Manley, Liberal, Minister of Industry]

Mr. Speaker, several constitutional experts, including Jacques Frémont from the Université de Montréal, recognized the right of the federal government to get involved in the area of commerce. Our bill will complement the legislation that already exists in Quebec.

To be sure, the issue of privacy is very important to all Canadians. It is important in the context of electronic commerce, and is an international issue rather than a provincial one. We will protect the interests of all Canadians.

[Francine Lalonde, Bloc, Mercier, QC]

Mr. Speaker, what Jacques Frémont said is that this bill was a show of force. That is what he said.

Given the unanimity among Quebec's workers, business leaders and professionals, what is the Minister of Industry waiting for—