Debates of March 4th, 1999

Supply

[Rick Casson, Reform, Lethbridge, AB]

Madam Speaker, I have been listening with some interest to the member for Vancouver—Kingsway. She mentions how fair the tax system is, how wonderful it is and how it treats everybody in Canada the same, but we have to ask the Liberal member some questions.

Why are Canadians paying $2,020 more in federal taxes today than they did in 1993? Why over the last decade do more families have both parents working? In 57% of all families both parents work now and in 1976 only 34% worked. Why is that if the tax system is so fair?

I would like to take this member back to an October 8, 1998 finance committee hearing in Calgary where Kids First were appearing. The member for Calgary Southeast was there to witness the outrage that these people felt when the member stood and said “Most women can combine career and family life. A lot of times people just take the easy way out”.

Is this member telling Canadians that people who stay at home to take care of their kids are taking the easy way out? Is that what she meant to say?

[Sophia Leung, Liberal, Vancouver Kingsway, BC]

Madam Speaker, I thank the member for his question. Sometimes members like to quote only half of my sentences and not finish what I said. That is misrepresenting my statement. Actually, I am trying to encourage—

[An hon. member]

It is quoted from Hansard word for word.

[Sophia Leung, Liberal, Vancouver Kingsway, BC]

You are 10 years ahead of my time. It is a 1998 correction.

[An hon. member]

Jason was in diapers then.

[Sophia Leung, Liberal, Vancouver Kingsway, BC]

He was probably in high school.

I would like to finish my comments to the hon. member's question regarding my remarks. I was actually trying to encourage mothers to choose. They can have both, a career and a family. I know as a working mother that it is very demanding and it is challenging to combine both. I say that they can have it either way.

If mothers find combining the two is difficult, they have to know that there are opportunities for them to develop abilities to meet new challenges in life. I stayed home until my son was ready to attend grade two. I feel it is perfectly all right to stay at home.

[Peter Stoffer, NDP, Sackville—Eastern Shore, NS]

Madam Speaker, I want to ask the question again to the Liberal member because I have not received the answer from any of the other Liberal members.

In 1993 this government promised day care for low income families and families across this country. That promise was broken. My question is why?

[Sophia Leung, Liberal, Vancouver Kingsway, BC]

Madam Speaker, I want to thank the member for reminding me that we did make the promise. We are willing to help working mothers by subsidizing day care. Unfortunately, it is very difficult to work with different provinces, especially when some provinces do not wish to co-operate to work out combined support for a day care program.

[Jason Kenney, Reform, Calgary Southeast, AB]

Madam Speaker, the member just denied having made those comments in October of 1998. Let us not be silly about the date. The member was there. I was there. The witnesses from Kids First were there.

I quote from the official parliamentary transcript: “Perhaps individually you have low self-esteem for many reasons” she said of the stay at home parents. “Being a single mother I don't quite see. Most women can combine career and family life. We know it is very difficult. A lot of times people just take the easy way out”.

This statement came from a millionaire, the member for Vancouver Kingsway. How can she justify this kind of prejudicial remark? Does the member really believe that stay at home parents are taking the easy way out?

[Sophia Leung, Liberal, Vancouver Kingsway, BC]

Madam Speaker, if the member wants to hear the answer he should not walk away. That is the coward's way.

If the hon. member wishes to listen to my answer he should stay. This is the place to listen, to have a good debate. I welcome that. As a matter of fact, I did not know I was a millionaire. Where did the member get that idea? If I was a millionaire I would not have to work here.

[Garry Breitkreuz, Reform, Yorkton—Melville, SK]

Madam Speaker, we as parliamentarians must do what is best for our country. The best thing for our country would be to do what is best for our children and our families. What is the best thing for our children? To allow them to have the right to have loving parents stay at home to take care of them without being penalized by the state for doing so. Are they being penalized? Yes. I want hon. members to look at the facts.

Roughly 82% of Canadians want the tax code changed; this according to the C. D. Howe Institute's latest report:

Current Canadian tax policy affords no universal recognition of children. In effect, it treats children in middle- or high-income families like consumer spending, as if parents had no legal or moral obligation to spend money on their care. This treatment is indefensible.

That is a quotation from the C. D. Howe Institute's November 1998 report.

They go on to say that federal tax, pre-1998 budget, paid by one earner families of four earning $60,000 was $10,319. That was the tax paid by a family of four. Federal tax, post-1999, for this same family was $9,589. The federal tax, pre-1998 budget, paid by two earner families of four earning $60,000 was $6,410 and after the 1999 budget this family paid $5,790.

Therefore, the C. D. Howe Institute points out that the one earner family paid 60.98% more in federal taxes than the two earner family before the 1998 budget. After budget '99, this difference jumped to 65.6%. With this latest budget the discriminatory tax situation increases 5%.

The C. D. Howe Institute goes on to say that at $45,000 these numbers jump even higher. At that rate the discrimination is 111% and after the 1999 budget it jumps to a difference of 136%.

These are numbers from an external source. These are not numbers that we have put together. They clearly indicate how discriminatory this Liberal Party has been against parents who choose to have one parent stay at home.

They go on to say that federal tax, pre-1998 budget, paid by one earner families of four with a total income of $50,000 was $7,116. The federal tax for this family after the 1999 budget was $6,464. Also, before the 1998 budget the federal tax paid by two earner families of four earning an income of $50,000 was $3,716. After the 1999 budget this family paid $3,160. So a one earner family paid $3,400 more or 91.5% more in federal taxes than a two earner family before the 1998 budget. After the 1999 budget this difference rose to $3,304, for an increase of 104%.

That is what this debate is about today. These are the facts. If hon. members go out into society they will find that one of the greatest irritants parents have is our present discriminatory tax policy.

We need to allow parents to have the choice without being penalized. Do not penalize single income households. I have heard all kinds of rhetoric from the other side where members are trying to excuse themselves because they have been whipped into voting against this motion. It is a motion that is supported by the vast majority of Canadians. Allow them to make a choice. Allow parents to stay at home to care for their children without having to pay a penalty.

The government has had the opportunity to change this discriminatory policy that favours dual income households and it has not yet done it after five years.

The first root of the problem is that the government wants to manipulate society. I ask myself: Why does it not do this? It wants to restrict people in their choices. Labelling stay at home parents as child care dropouts indicates how government members are thinking.

The second root of the problem is that taxes are much too high and the government does not want to reduce them. It is most reluctant to respond to the desire of Canadians to have their taxes reduced.

In fact taxes are so high that these taxes drive parents out of the home in order to pay the bills. In order to provide the food, shelter and clothing that are needed, parents today are forced to supplement their income by having both parents work out of the home. This limits parents in their desire to do what they feel is best for those they cherish most, their children.

According to the experts, this restriction on the parents' desire to directly care for their children has raised costs in four areas. Costs to society increase because parents are restricted in their choices. In their desire to spend time with their children, psychologists have told us that it is absolutely necessary that they be with their children, yet the social engineering of the Liberals has raised costs in four areas. These four areas are education, social costs, justice and health care costs.

If the Liberals allowed parents to exercise their choice freely without being manipulated by the tax system we could lower our level of taxation in this country. Why? Because education costs could be reduced. Health care costs could be reduced. Justice costs could be reduced. All of those social costs could be reduced. What would appear as maybe a loss of income to the government would actually have the opposite effect.

The accusation was thrown at us by the Liberals that we would like to remove paid child care as a tax deduction. We have never said that. We would not oppose a tax reduction for parents. But we do object to the fact that parents who stay at home to care for their children are not treated equally. The parent who stays at home is not allowed to reduce their taxes accordingly. The government does not give equal treatment to parents who choose to stay at home. That is the main point of this motion. That is what we are going to be voting on. We need to look at the intent of this motion. Many of the speakers on the opposite side have avoided the intent of this motion.

In conclusion, let me talk a little about the brain drain and how that is affecting families. Canada is one of the most highly taxed nations in the world. According to the Fraser Institute, the total tax rate runs at 49%. High taxation is driving our young people out of this country. A single person would have 38% disposable income in the United States. In Canada they only have 22%. That is a huge difference.

What effect does that have on the family? Grandparents who would like to see their grandchildren are unable to do that. Grandparents have an important role to play. This government makes it more difficult to have extended family relationships because our young people are forced to leave to go to the U.S. to find jobs.

Not only are we incurring huge costs educating young people, young people who could contribute to our quality of life and our economy, we are forcing them to leave the country. We are also harming extended family relationships. That is very serious.

If we thought through the tax policies of the government we would see how it has completely disregarded the pleas of Canadians for tax reduction and fairness in this area.

[An hon. member]

Some Canadians.

[Garry Breitkreuz, Reform, Yorkton—Melville, SK]

I hear a member opposite saying some Canadians. Look at what people think. Over 70% of mothers in the workplace would prefer to be at home with their children. Over 80% of Canadians, mothers and fathers, feel that the government is discriminating in the area of taxation against parents who would like this choice. That is very serious. That is what this debate is about.

I have heard all the rhetoric on the other side, the waffling and the excuses because they are not allowed to vote freely. I think we should put politics aside and do what is best for the children and for the families of this country.

[The Acting Speaker (Ms. Thibeault)]

It is my duty, pursuant to Standing Order 38, to inform the House that the questions to be raised tonight at the time of adjournment are as follows: the hon. member for Sackville—Eastern Shore, Public Service of Canada; the hon. member for Mississauga South, Health; the hon. member for Winnipeg North Centre, Health.

[Paul Szabo, Liberal, Mississauga South, ON]

Madam Speaker, I agree with sentiment and the spirit of the member's comments as I think he listened to my speech earlier. He will know that I have some difficulties not with the intent of the motion but rather based on the speeches that were given with the approach to dealing with it.

I say that because the child care expense deduction which appears to be the foundation of the debate is only available to the lowest income earning spouse. It is also worth more to a higher income earner versus a low income earner. It is problematic. Given that it is only available to the lowest income earner it does not do justice or equity to parents where one of them may have some part time income because that parent would be the only one to claim the child care expense deduction against a low level of part time income. Also not taken into account would be someone who has interest income as a second earning. A stay at home mom with interest income would have to claim the child care expense deduction and could not transfer it to the higher income earning spouse. It would not benefit them. The third situation would be lone parents. They either work or if they do not work, they will have no income to deduct the child care expense deduction against.

I argued and I ask the hon. member whether he would not consider that if the child care expense deduction in itself is technically flawed and is not apparently an instrument that can be inclusive of the different kinds of configurations of families and income situations of families, maybe we should just scrap it and replace it with a care giver benefit.

[Garry Breitkreuz, Reform, Yorkton—Melville, SK]

Madam Speaker, I respect the member opposite. However, he is trying to change the subject. He is trying to find an excuse not to support the motion. Look at the intent of this motion. Do not start going off on some tangent. I submit that if this motion had been introduced by the finance minister he would have stood up and supported it. He is going into all kinds of extraneous details that are not in the motion and which could be debated when the legislation is introduced but the general principle is what we are talking about today, fairness and equality in our tax system for parents who would choose to stay at home and do a very valuable job.

We have had everybody support the intent of that. They are doing a very valuable job and yet that is the problem we have here. The question I would like to pose back but cannot is why he is not supporting the intent of this motion. If it were introduced over there he would be supporting it.

[Roy H. Bailey, Reform, Souris—Moose Mountain, SK]

Madam Speaker, I would like to quickly put a question to my colleague. What we are doing here is asking that a system be set up so we can look to end this discrimination. My colleague knows very well that there are many people opposite who want to end this discrimination.

When does my colleague think the whip came down and said “no, we will vote against it” and for what reason? Can the member think of any reason they would defeat a motion that is so fundamentally clear and honest?

[Garry Breitkreuz, Reform, Yorkton—Melville, SK]

Madam Speaker, it is impossible to answer that question. I cannot get into the heads of the people on the other side. I have asked myself many times the question of what makes them tick, why they knuckle under to the whip and why they do not use their heads when it comes to debating and looking at the legislation. This flies in the face of democracy.

What we should be doing in the House is listening to the legislation and the motions being debated. That is our job as legislators, as parliamentarians, to listen to the pros and cons of a debate and vote accordingly. That is not happening. This is the most undemocratic place we can imagine because of the system that has developed here.

That has to change and unless we change this system, we will not change much else in the country. Our parents will still be discriminated against if they choose to take care of the children because of the system that exists here, where members of parliament are not allowed to vote freely on this. How they are kept in line is up to speculation.

[Gary Lunn, Reform, Saanich—Gulf Islands, BC]

Madam Speaker, it is a disgrace and I am ashamed that we even have to talk about this as we are about to turn the millennium, that we discriminate against parents who choose to stay home and raise their children.

I will get into specifics. This all boils down to just one issue as I see it that we have to decide on. Will we recognize that parenting is one of our most important occupations that any Canadian can do? I suggest it is.

My wife stays at home. She works 14 to 16 hours a day raising our children. There is not one other occupation I can think of that is more difficult, more demanding and is more of a cornerstone of the fabric of our society than that.

Before I get into specific examples out of their own documents to prove this, I will relate something that is even more insulting, more disgraceful. Members opposite, instead of giving tax fairness to stay at home parents are more concerned about providing tax relief to NHL franchises, to NHL hockey players who are earning millions and millions of dollars. That is what they are focusing on. That is insulting. That is a disgrace to all these parents who stay at home.

I do not disagree that they are probably overtaxed but if the government is to give out one thin dime and a tax free certificate it had better give out 30 million of them.

I will get to the specifics. I have a document, a child care expense deduction form for 1998, form T778. That is what any Canadian will have to fill out to claim a child care deduction for this year. I will use myself as an example.

My wife has a university degree. She was a director of information services at a local college. She can speak four languages, is well educated but she chose to give up her career because she felt it was so fundamentally important to stay home with our children while I went out to work.

I have another example. My sister is a school teacher in Invermere, British Columbia. He husband James chose to put his career on hold and stay at home with their three daughters until they started school. He felt it was important that one parent be there. He put his career on hold and stayed at home.

For either James or my wife or anybody else in similar circumstances, if they wanted to get the same tax deduction as two working parents there is one way they could do it. I am looking on the tax form, part C. If they ticked off the box that they are mentally or physically incapable of raising children they would be eligible for the same deduction.

This one is even more amazing. Let me read word for word from the government's tax form:

e) The other supporting person was confined to a prison or similar institution for a period of at least two weeks in 1998.

Is so they would be eligible for that tax deduction.

That is not rhetoric. That is fact. It is an insult to every single man and woman who chooses to stay home and look after their children and it is absolutely shameful that we are discussing that as we go into the next millennium, that we can discriminate. I plead to the members. I am telling straight facts.

There is one other way that they could get this deduction. My wife and I would have to separate. If we are living separate and apart we would get the deductions.

It is an insult that we are promoting that. I know seniors who have come to me and said the only way they could get tax fairness is if they were to get a legal divorce. That is another whole issue.

The issue we are talking about today is whether we recognize the role of parents who choose to stay home and raise their children. The question is whether we recognize that as the most important occupation in society.

The government puts zero importance on it. It discriminates against it. They are not entitled to it.

In fact, one of the Liberal members point this out to me. I am appalled. These are the facts. I challenge any member on that side to come to talk to me personally or stand up in the House and I will provide him or her with this document. They can get it from any post office. These are the facts.

They keep coming up with all these other arguments on everything they have done. Some of these came in with the Tories but we are not discussing those because those are available to everybody. We are talking about the one deduction that is available.

Another issue that has been raised is how a two parent family each earning $25,000 is better off than another two parent family that has only one person earning $50,000. The family that believes it is important to stay home and nurture and raise children is discriminated by $4,000. This is on top of the the child care issue which I was just explaining.

My children are four and five. They go to preschool for my wife's benefit so that she can get a few hours out of each week to do the things she needs to do. It is also, I argue, a benefit for them and very good for them. However, we are not entitled to that tax deduction because my wife is not a criminal, she has not spent two weeks in jail and we are not separated. These words are right off the form:

f) You and you spouse were, due to a breakdown in your relationship, living separate and apart at the end of 1998 and for a period of at least 90 days—.

It is insulting to these people.

I have another example which takes me back four or five years going to law school. This goes on to part D. We had our children when I was going to school. My wife gave up her career while I was in law school. If the circumstances had been the same as they are today, we would not have been entitled to put them in a day care and claim that deduction even though the family income was only for three or four months a year around $16,000.

If both the parents are not working they both have to be going to school to claim that deduction in part D. This is right off the government's tax forms. I encourage members to look at them. I read these and I am appalled.

I then listen to other comments made by members in the House and the insults get deeper and deeper and the wounds become deeper and deeper.

Let me talk about the member for Vancouver Kingsway. She was sitting on a committee in Calgary along with my hon. colleague from Calgary Southeast who explained to me the outrage of the people she was addressing. These people were just disgusted. There is a quote in Hansard which she laughs and sneers at when she is questioned in the House. She said perhaps individually you have low self-esteem for many reasons but you cannot say this applies to all women at home. They are not being looked down upon as misfits.

I would argue that my wife is not a misfit. She has a degree and is fluent in four languages, written and spoken, but she chose to place her priority on our family. We believe that it is very important to stay at home and raise our children. She is also fully aware of the sacrifices she has made. She wants to go back into the workforce when our children start school. We are facing those choices now. She took five years out of her career because she felt it was so important. We discriminate against those people. There are hundreds of thousands of those kinds of people across this country.

She also said most women can combine career and family life. It is not about that. It is about making choices. I find this absolutely outrageous. That the government will give the tax deduction to a criminal who spends two weeks in jail, somebody who is separated or somebody who is not capable of raising their children but the person who chooses to stay at home is not entitled to that same deduction is outrageous. How can the government insult Canadians?

There is an opportunity to correct this by standing and voting in favour of this motion. We can do what is right, put politics aside, rise above party labels and do what we believe is right for Canadians. I will give members this document and they can read it for themselves and make the choice.

[Paul Szabo, Liberal, Mississauga South, ON]

Mr. Speaker, the member has expressed the sentiment of all members who spoke today and I think of all members of the House of the important contribution families make when they choose to provide direct parental care.

The issue of discrimination continues to be part of this dialogue. The member will know that in the Income Tax Act there is a lot of discrimination. In fact policy by its very nature is discriminatory.

We discriminate in favour of seniors because we give them an age exemption and pay OAS. We discriminate in favour of aboriginals because of the special programs and benefits. We discriminate in favour of high income earners because they can deduct larger amounts in RRSPs. We discriminate in favour of low income earners because they have a lower tax rate than others. We discriminate in favour. All of the tax measures that were put in probably were done in response to a particular situation.

I do not think anyone in this place will disagree with the spirit and with the intent. But the member will know that the child care expense deduction is not inclusive enough. It does not deal with the benefit available to someone with part time work or just non-earned income work or with lone parent situations.

[Gary Lunn, Reform, Saanich—Gulf Islands, BC]

Mr. Speaker, in those comments the hon. member has acknowledged there is discrimination. We are talking about discrimination against parents who choose to stay at home and raise their children. My family is one of those. I have siblings who have made those choices, along with hundreds of thousands of Canadians.

Let us recognize the value that they contribute to this society, the very fabric and what will be the future of our society. They have such a fundamental important role. Let us fix that discrimination the member talks about. It is right here in the tax forms. Why would we give a deduction to a criminal who goes to jail for two weeks? Why do I have to separate from my wife for 90 days to be eligible for a deduction?

Can we not recognize the value that they give to society, that it is the most important occupation we have in this land? It is not about some of the comments that have been made that other people have to work hard.

[John Bryden, Liberal, Wentworth—Burlington, ON]

Mr. Speaker, there is an element of holier than thou in this debate. I have sat here quietly for the last three hours and I have heard the Reform Party opposite constantly ask why did the finance minister not do something on this issue, that since 1993, for five years this government has not moved on this issue.

The opposition party has an opportunity to present an opposition motion every week or so. I would like to ask the member opposite why has it taken five years for that party to bring this motion forward in this House?

[Gary Lunn, Reform, Saanich—Gulf Islands, BC]

Mr. Speaker, we have to prioritize. We have had to bring motions forward to try to provide some relief for hepatitis C victims. We have had to bring motions forward for debate in this House on offering protection to children in this country against pedophiles and pornographic materials. Those are the priorities on which we had to make choices to bring to this House.

Let us stick to the facts. The facts are on the government's own tax forms. It is discriminating. We are not recognizing the importance of parents who choose to stay home to raise their children. Let us give them the fairness.

We are not asking for anything that is not fair. We are only asking that they be treated the same as everyone else, that they be treated equally. We are not asking for special privileges for them, but just to be treated as equal, not to be talked down to as so many government members have done. That is all we are asking.

We are asking them to put their political labels aside and do what in their hearts they know is right. This is an issue for which we have fought for a long time and we will continue to do so.

[John McKay, Liberal, Scarborough East, ON]

Mr. Speaker, I would like to acknowledge at the outset that I will be splitting my time with the hon. member for Wentworth—Burlington.

I hope that in this debate I can offer some constructive suggestions with respect to the motion at hand. I will diligently attempt to stay away from gender politics and all of the nonsense that goes with it.

Supply days in this House are a little like playing paintball with a blind man. If you shoot often enough, after a while you hit a target by accident. Under serendipitous circumstances somehow or another you finally hit the mark.

To any great credit of the Reform Party it actually hit on an anomaly in the Income Tax Act which bears some review and is a point worth debating. I cannot say that has been often true from the opposition parties as the points frequently raised from the other side seem to bear no relevance to reality and are not worth debating.

When I went to law school I took income tax. I hated the subject. I would do everything to avoid the course. I then went on to bar admission and had to do it again. Again I would try to do everything to avoid the course. I wondered why I really objected to the Income Tax Act. The essential reason was that when I thought I had a solution to a particular problem, suddenly the solution evaporated in my hands.

This motion is similar to that. It appears to be a good idea. It seems like a good idea. Who could be against discrimination, or for discrimination as the case may be? It makes no sense whatsoever.

After 22 years of practising law, I have frequently been asked questions with respect to the Income Tax Act. I have had enough courage to say to clients that I know that I do not know a great deal about the subject. I dare say that such candour seldom is experienced by members opposite.

Income tax is extremely complicated. The act is complicated. It is understood by very few people in its entirety. There is an argument to be put that almost no one in Canada actually understands the act in all its complexities. Any time one plays with a certain part of the act, there are implications in the act that one probably does not anticipate.

Notwithstanding that, we are not being asked so much to deal with the act as we are dealing with the values that underlie the act. In that respect, the motion has merit. The motion reads “that, in the opinion of this House, the federal tax system should be reformed to end discrimination against single income families with children”. I am somewhat disappointed in the drafters of the motion having chosen somewhat inflammatory language such as discrimination.

As the member for Mississauga South pointed out, the act tries to address a number of inequities in family living situations such as people who split up, such as people with certain disabilities. Every time one tries to favour one group in that respect, one almost necessarily appears to discriminate against another group. I would rather use the word that it is an anomaly and address it as an anomaly.

Every time we use the word discriminatory we start to vision the charter of rights and freedoms. We start to get into definitions as to whether this is or is not discrimination and whether it is justifiable in a free and democratic society. Knowing members opposite, particularly the proponents of the motion, I know that is not where they intend to go with their motion.

I do not pretend to go into a legal analysis on this matter but I would like to address a family that is earning about $60,000 as a family income. Clearly the numbers do not add up. If one is married or living common law and earning $30,000, spouse one and spouse two, the total family tax is about $11,600. If however only one of the spouses is earning the $60,000, the tax burden is about $16,000.

The inequity is apparent. It is about $4,300. That inequity is further exaggerated if one is also a single parent, although when one gets into various spousal equivalents it gets somewhat closer. Clearly there is about a $4,000 discrepancy between the two situations.

What does the tax system do to exaggerate the anomaly or to minimize the anomaly? I point out to members opposite that the child care deduction has an approximate value of $4,000 to $7,000. This goes to the spouse who has the lowest income. Of course the premise is that the spouse who has no income will not be able to benefit from that child care deduction. That actually exaggerates the anomaly rather than minimizes it.

Are there aspects which actually reduce the anomaly? The most obvious is the child tax benefit which by anyone's standards is a significant initiative on the part of this government. It is approximately $2 billion.

The problem with arguing on the basis of the child tax benefit is that it applies both to single family incomes and families that have double incomes. That in and of itself does not help to reduce the anomaly.

The real issue as I see it is that it is a values decision. This government has made an attempt to minimize the effects of the Income Tax Act on those most vulnerable and most in need. If that is the damning indictment of a government, then I stand with the government to try and reduce the impact of the tax on those most vulnerable and most in need. This is something I support.

I have to say that in that respect the government has done a reasonable job. Over the past two budgets, the government has taken about 600,000 taxpayers off the rolls and that, regardless of where we sit in this House, is a considerable accomplishment. I am aware that as employment improves, there will be more taxpayers added to the rolls. Again those are results of government policies which can only bring more fairness into the system.

It seems to me that the government has made the right decision in this area to attempt to reduce the effect of the income tax on anyone below a certain threshold. Frankly, again I cannot imagine how members on any side of the House would argue that is anything other than a good thing.

As the threshold rises, it has benefits to all families, regardless of whether they are a single parent or have both parents, whether they have a single income or a double income. The additional and obvious benefit has been to move up the threshold by $675 which means that an individual is going to have to have a taxable income in excess of $7,000 before there is going to be any tax at all.

Another area in which the anomaly can be reduced is in the spousal credit. This goes somewhat toward the reduction of the anomaly by about $1,000 in our example.

An additional area where the government has attempted to address the inequity is through the Canada child tax benefit. This provides a special supplement of $213 per child under the age of 17.

These are, I would argue, modest attempts to reduce the anomalies. The 1999 budget should be credited for doing that.

In addition there was an introduction of the Canada child tax benefit which has a value of $2,600 for a family that has one income versus $1,270 for a family that has two incomes. Again if we put those benefits together, the spousal credit and the child tax benefit, we have reduced the anomaly somewhat which still leaves it in the range of approximately $3,000.

The final point I would like to make with respect to the reduction of the anomaly is that the increase in deductibility and the removal of many people from the tax rolls is an enormous benefit that is not factored into the motion.

The final issue with respect to this is whether—

[The Acting Speaker (Mr. McClelland)]

I am sorry but I must interrupt. The hon. member did say that he was splitting his time.