Debates of March 9th, 1999

Federal-Provincial Fiscal Arrangements Act

[Werner Schmidt, Reform, Kelowna, BC]

Mr. Speaker, the important issue here is that the third point is the one that matters. The third point is that we would make absolutely sure that there was a complete and radical reformation of the equalization program. That is the issue.

If the hon. member would stop talking and start listening, I think it would help his understanding.

We want to reform in a radical way the equalization program. There are two points we would make in the radical reformation. If the hon. member would take the time to read the new Canada act, he would find them there. They are equal treatment of all citizens with per capita grants to provinces for shared cost programs and then a single equalization grant based on a macro indicator of per capita provincial GDP compared to the per capita national GDP.

This is at the heart of the issue. That shifts the formula away from the political considerations the hon. parliamentary secretary referred to. He wants to get into this conflict again of one province versus another.

We want to bring the individual into the equalization formula and make sure that we have a macro measure so that we do not have one region competing with another region, one region lording it over another region so that no one benefits. The fact is the manipulation for political reasons takes precedence rather than the needs of individuals and that is what we are concerned about. That is really at the heart of the issue.

I encourage the parliamentary secretary to take this to heart and do this in the equalization formula. If he does that, he will not have all this concern about which kind of oil it is, how old or new it is, whether it is heavy oil or light oil, whether it is gas or oil, or whether it is gas sold in Canada or elsewhere. He would not have to do that. He could simplify his life so much.

[Angela Vautour, NDP, Beauséjour—Petitcodiac, NB]

Mr. Speaker, first of all I would like to inform my colleague that when that comment was made, the McKenna government was actually on its way out. It was so far out that Thériault actually made a comment this week that he was trying to distance himself from the McKenna government, although he was holding his hot coffee cup, all along he was in his cabinet. That tells us what the McKenna government did.

The member also said he would give a whole lot more to New Brunswick. I am just wondering how good Reform's word is. That is the question. The words are nice but I also remember about the Stornoway house and how it was a bad place to go to.

[An hon. member]

The bingo parlour.

[Angela Vautour, NDP, Beauséjour—Petitcodiac, NB]

The bingo parlour, exactly. But once elected, those words were forgotten. The pension plan was the same thing. How many Reform members got elected saying they would not accept the pension plan and now they have all taken it? Reform also talks about health care.

[Werner Schmidt, Reform, Kelowna, BC]

Mr. Speaker, I rise on a point of order. The hon. member just made a personal statement.

[The Acting Speaker (Mr. McClelland)]

That is obviously a point of debate.

[Angela Vautour, NDP, Beauséjour—Petitcodiac, NB]

Mr. Speaker, Reform members talk about health care. Now they are the saviours of health care, although one of the Reform members said at one point that they were hurt in the United States and got better service in the United States.

It is nice to hear the words, but unfortunately, following my review of the situation, we cannot take Reform's word.

[Werner Schmidt, Reform, Kelowna, BC]

Mr. Speaker, I cannot help but correct what the member has alleged of certain members of parliament and members of the Reform Party.

A large number of us said we would not accept the MP pension plan because it was far too generous compared to what other Canadians could expect. That is an issue which many of us take to heart. I am one of those who said I would not accept that pension. When the legislation was amended we were given the opportunity to opt back in. I did not opt in and most of us did not opt in.

The hon. member should be very, very careful when she paints everybody with the same brush. Am I going to paint her with a particular brush because she is a member of the New Democratic Party? That is not fair and I will not do it. She should not do things like that. She should be corrected. She should apologize and withdraw that statement.

[Paul Forseth, Reform, New Westminster—Coquitlam—Burnaby, BC]

Mr. Speaker, as we listen to this debate it sounds as if we are beating our breasts about who is more caring or who is more willing to redistribute the national income. In other words, who is more willing to be more socialist?

In view of all the problems, I would like the member to clearly explain where we should go. He talked about the single equalization grant. Maybe he could talk a little bit more about what that means, to clarify and to get to the realm of simplicity, to make it politically defensible and accountable to the public understanding, a kind of transparency of fairness so that average Canadians can get behind any readjustment and politically support it based on real need and real ability to pay, removed from any perverse incentives or disincentives. Perhaps the member could help us.

[Werner Schmidt, Reform, Kelowna, BC]

Mr. Speaker, yes indeed, it is as if we want to outsocialize each other. That is not the point here. The point here is that we need to look after the needs of Canadians and we need to do it in as equitable and fair a manner as possible.

We live individual lives. I thank the hon. member for focusing this once more not on a formula, not on a constitution, not on the transfer of funds from one province to another, but rather on the needs of individual Canadians.

If there is one thing that has become abundantly clear, it is that the federal government has taken an increasing share of an individual's income, of an individual's ability to look after himself through the taxation system, which makes it impossible for him or her to do the kinds of things he or she would like to do.

When it comes to equalization payments, the very same system should apply. It should be there for the individual Canadian.

The new Canada Act was put together by individuals, by Canadians who care. It was not dreamed up by some kind of big academic involved behind closed doors in a big ivory tower and thinking something through. This came from people with real needs, people who wanted jobs, people who knew that the system was too complex and too subject to political manipulation in order to accomplish what it was intended to accomplish. That is what we are talking about when we are dealing with these two points.

[The Speaker]

There are only 24 seconds left my colleague and even you could not ask a question that quickly. I know that you are a good questioner, but I think this will give us a chance to get a few more statements in.

International Fund For Animal Welfare

[Steve Mahoney, Liberal, Mississauga West, ON]

Mr. Speaker, the International Fund for Animal Welfare has paid a retirement settlement of $2.5 million to its founder Brian Davies.

I wonder what all those people whose way of life and livelihood he and this group destroyed think of that. While he retires in the lap of luxury, they live in poverty. This group led by Davies destroyed the sealing industry in Newfoundland and Labrador, which in turn led to the destruction of the caplin and cod fishery. They deny it. But the truth is, seals eat fish.

And now a $2.5 million golden handshake. Who would have guessed that IFAW was nothing more than a money making retirement fund for its founder. Probably not the donors; certainly not the taxpayers; and not the men, women and children who had their way of life destroyed.

What a shameful display of greed and betrayal.

Trade

[Charlie Penson, Reform, Peace River, AB]

Mr. Speaker, in 1995 this government passed Bill C-103 to block split-run magazines in Canada. In 1997 the World Trade Organization found our split-run tax in violation of trade commitments. Yesterday however, for the second time in four years this government took measures to impede split-run magazines in Canada. This violates the spirit and quite possibly the letter of our trade agreements.

If we are not prepared to respect the trade agreements we sign, how can we expect other countries to keep their word? When we sign an international agreement, we make a promise that other nations rely on. If Canada does not like the terms of a treaty, then we should not sign it. However, this government likes to sign deals and then pass laws ignoring their provisions. Ignoring international agreements minimizes their impact. That in turn undermines the regime that separates orderly trade from chaos.

Can the government not see that if enough countries ignore World Trade Organization rulings, the World Trade Organization itself will become unravelled and not workable?

Liberal Party Of Prince Edward Island

[Wayne Easter, Liberal, Malpeque, PE]

Mr. Speaker, good things are happening in Prince Edward Island. I rise in the House to congratulate the new leader of the Liberal Party of P.E.I., Mr. Wayne Carew, who was formally declared leader at a convention in Charlottetown on Friday evening of last week.

Mr. Carew is a dynamic and extremely talented individual with experience in both private business and senior public administration. Island Liberals are enthusiastic about the prospects of his leadership.

I attended last Friday's convention, an uplifting spirited event, which also included a tribute to retiring leader the hon. Keith Milligan. The mood was very upbeat and positive. It is clear that the Liberal Party of P.E.I. is again on the move. That spells great things and great tidings for the nation, for Canada.

Our thanks to Keith, and our congratulations to Carew.

The Late William Petten

[Charles Hubbard, Liberal, Miramichi, NB]

Mr. Speaker, it is a privilege today to rise and to remember the life of William Petten.

Bill Petten was a man who combined the best of Newfoundland with the best of Canada. With wit and wisdom he served in the Canadian Senate from 1968 to 1998. Bill's infectious sense of humour won him friends on all sides of both houses of parliament.

Senator Petten was instrumental in extending Canada's marine jurisdiction beyond 200 miles to the great advantage of his home province of Newfoundland and to all Canadians. Bill Petten was a friend and confidant of premiers, prime ministers and everyday Newfoundlanders and Labradorians.

To his wife Bernice and his children, Sharon, William, Rob and Raylene, I offer our heartfelt condolences. Like you, we will always remember Bill in our hearts as a great member from Newfoundland.

[The Speaker]

It is not often I permit myself a few seconds of our time in the House, but what you said about Bill Petten is absolutely on the button. Not only that, but he took many of us, young at the time, as members of parliament under his wing. He was a good Canadian and a good senator.

He will be missed in this House and I am sure a great deal in the Senate.

Immigration

[Stan Dromisky, Liberal, Thunder Bay—Atikokan, ON]

Mr. Speaker, Canadians are pleased with the recently proposed amendments to our citizenship and immigration legislation.

These amendments aim to improve the efficiency of Canada's refugee system while preserving Canada's humanitarian tradition.

One of the proposed amendments will involve streamlining the Immigration and Refugee Board's three existing layers of refugee decision making into one.

Some individuals in the multimillion dollar immigration legal industry are opposed to eliminating the inefficiencies inherent in the current system, but change must occur. We must have a well balanced system protecting the safety of Canadians and preserving precious taxpayer dollars while at the same time protecting genuine refugees.

Justice

[Randy White, Reform, Langley—Abbotsford, BC]

Mr. Speaker, April 26, 1999. That's an important date for Canadians. That's the date the Liberal government encouraged more judges and lawyers to decide on the issue of whether or not the possession of child pornography is illegal.

Yes, instead of standing up in the House of Commons and providing assurances that the possession of child pornography is illegal, this Liberal government failed to express the will of the majority of Canadians.

I ask all interested Canadians to be at that appeal hearing in Vancouver. If Liberal members of parliament will not stand up for you then perhaps the presence at the appeal hearing will send a clear message that this will not be tolerated.

Why is it that the Liberal politicians during election campaigns will stand up in front of Canadians and tell them what they want to hear and yet when they arrive in the House of Commons they do what the Prime Minister and his cabinet want them to do?

Let us send a critical message. Politicians should make laws, not judges.

St. Patrick's Day

[Raymond Lavigne, Liberal, Verdun—Saint-Henri, QC]

Mr. Speaker, on Sunday, March 14, the Irish community will assemble on St. Catherine Street in Montreal and set out with a crowd of thousands on the St. Patrick's day parade.

The history of these Irish-Canadians is an amazing tale of courageous and determined individuals who are proud to be Canadian and who play an active role in the future of this country.

I invite all members of the House to Montreal for what organizers promise will be a new take on this 175th anniversary.

I wish all these residents of my riding of Verdun—Saint-Henri a truly memorable day.

As they say, come one come all.

Pay Equity

[Caroline St-Hilaire, Bloc, Longueuil, QC]

Mr. Speaker, government policy must be guided by many things, but mainly by the need to always set a good example. I must say that we have seen better examples than the one the government is setting at present.

The President of Treasury Board has decided to set an example as far as pay equity is concerned. His message is very clear. With its decision to appeal the human rights tribunal decision, the government is setting an example of flagrant lack of respect for its employees, women for the most part, by stubbornly refusing to ensure pay equity.

It is also setting an example by wasting the taxpayers' money on legal fees just to put off the inevitable a bit longer.

The government has set such a good example of poor corporate citizenship that others, such as Bell Canada, also feel no obligation to respect their workers.

The time has come for action. Let us have pay equity, and for heaven's sake, let us set an example for others.

Economic Growth In Quebec

[Marlene Jennings, Liberal, Notre-Dame-de-Grâce—Lachine, QC]

Mr. Speaker, I want to counter something that will most certainly be part of the Quebec Minister of Finance's next budget.

The sovereignists often claim that Canadian federalism is stifling the economy of Quebec. According to a study carried out by the CIBC, the economic growth in Quebec is likely to be higher than the Canadian average in 1999.

In addition, this performance should enable Quebec to get its unemployment rate down below the 9% mark by the year 2000.

The sovereignist government ought to think twice before it blames the federal government for everything that is wrong in the world. It ought instead to be building bridges of co-operation between the two levels of government, in the interests of all Quebeckers.

Justice

[Jack Ramsay, Reform, Crowfoot, AB]

Mr. Speaker, I rise today to pay respect to a very honourable group of men and women who have dedicated their lives to serve and protect Canadians. They have come to Ottawa from all across Canada. They are our frontline police officers.

Members of the Canadian Police Association are meeting with members of parliament and they are here in the gallery today. Their message is simple. We need to restore balance to Canada's ailing justice system. The Liberal government has failed to listen to these credible spokespersons who have gained their valuable insights from working the streets of this country.

Canada's police officers want appropriate penalties for crimes committed which means consecutive, not concurrent, sentences. They want section 745 of the Criminal Code scrapped. They want a properly funded DNA databank to eliminate the 600 cases backlogged and they want the legislation amended so samples can be taken at the time of arrest or charge. They need adequate budgets. Cash strapped police forces cannot adequately combat crime. Hopefully the government will listen to the real law and order experts, our frontline police officers.

International Women's Week

[Susan Whelan, Liberal, Essex, ON]

Mr. Speaker, this is International Women's Week, a week in which we take time to reflect on the progress made in advancing women's equality. This past Friday, March 5, over 250 participants did just that at the first annual Women in Politics Conference in Windsor which was hosted by my provincial colleague, Sandra Pupatello, and me.

The conference was dedicated to the memory of Shaughnessy Cohen and this event was sanctioned by the area school boards. Students from high school, college and university from across Essex County, the city of Windsor and Chatham participated in a one day forum to encourage young women to become involved in our political system.

Guest speakers included the Hon. Dianne Cunningham, Lyn McLeod and Marion Boyd who spoke to an enthusiastic crowd at the Fogolar Furlan Club on the role women can and do play in politics. Keynote luncheon speaker Robert Fisher, anchor for Global News , gave a fantastic account of his experience with women politicians, and our media panel included the Ottawa Citizen 's Jane Taber.

A special thanks to our student organizers and corporate sponsors and to the principals, teachers and students who recognized the importance of our message through their participation. The conference participants took a step forward in the advancement of all women.

Bankruptcy

[Libby Davies, NDP, Vancouver East, BC]

Mr. Speaker, today a young woman and recent university graduate named Annick Chenier decided to fight back against this government's relentless attack on students. Annick, with the help of the CFS, has launched a court challenge aimed at striking down discriminatory and unjustified changes to the Bankruptcy Act pushed through by the Liberals in last year's budget.

These changes force students unable to cope with debtload to wait 10 years after leaving school to file for bankruptcy. Annick, who graduated with a debtload of $63,000, has been forced to seek justice from the courts because the government refuses to do it.

Today I rise to do two things, first to applaud Annick's courage and second to call on the Minister of Human Resources Development to save Annick the pain of a lengthy court battle by doing the right thing, repealing this discriminatory change to the Bankruptcy Act. If the minister will not do it, then I urge all members of this House to support my private member's Bill C-439 which would do the job for him.

Canadian Police Association

[Jacques Saada, Liberal, Brossard—La Prairie, QC]

Mr. Speaker, over one hundred representatives of police associations are coming from across the country to meet in Ottawa and debate matters of concern to the police community.

The fifth annual legislative conference of the Canadian Police Association provides an opportunity for direct contact with those who play a vital role protecting Canadians. Public security is important to all Canadians. It is important to the government as well.

I encourage all members to use this valuable opportunity to meet these police officers, who make a major contribution to the safety of us all. They often have to work in very difficult conditions.

As Parliamentary Secretary to the Solicitor General of Canada, I salute them.