Debates of April 13th, 1999

Questions On The Order Paper

[Lee Morrison, Reform, Cypress Hills—Grasslands, SK]

Regarding the Halifax Port Corporation: ( a ) has the corporation awarded an exclusive, untendered lease on Shed 9A, Richmond Terminals, Halifax, Nova Scotia, to a newly incorporated company, Scotia terminals Limited; ( b ) does this company have any other leases or businesses with the corporation; ( c ) has this facility and its related dock recently had the benefit of a $5 million capital improvement at the cost of the corporation; ( d ) in the past five years, how many other untendered leases for multimillion dollar port facilities have been granted and to whom; ( e ) what is the total annual revenue expected to be generated by the Scotia Terminals Limited lease for each of the next five years; and ( f ) who are the principals, officers and directors of Scotia Terminals Limited?

[Stan Dromisky, Liberal, Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Transport]

(a) The Halifax Port Corporation did enter into a lease agreement with Scotia Terminals Limited for facilities at Pier 9A. The lease commenced December 1, 1998. A tender call for the lease was not issued. In fact, it would be highly unusual for the Halifax Port Corporation to call for tenders to lease facilities. Neither HPC's enabling legislation nor its internal policies require it to call for tenders for leases.

(b) No.

(c) In 1996, the dock, which was constructed over 50 years ago, was declared unsafe and taken out of service. The proposal to lease facilities put forward by Scotia Terminals Limited provided the necessary support for the decision to carry out the $5.3 million repair expenditure. The repairs were at the cost of HPC.

(d) In the past five years there have been two other leases of a multimillion dollar port facility. One was to PanCanadian Petroleum Limited at Shed 9B and the other was to Colbalt Refinery Limited at Shed 22. The latter area was subsequently leased to Scotia Terminals Limited. The lease terminated on November 30, 1998 when the operation moved to the Pier 9A facility.

(e) The Halifax Port Corporation deems the amount of revenue to be generated by the lease as commercially sensitive and privileged information.

(f) The officers and directors of Scotia Terminals Limited are:

President: Bernard Prévost Secretary/Treasurer: Harry Mathers Comptroller: Cheryl Newcombe

Directors: Harry Mathers Bernard Prévost

Question No. 177—

[Judy Wasylycia-Leis, NDP, Winnipeg North Centre, MB]

What have been the federal government's activities in the area of hepatitis B vaccination, specifically: ( a ) information learned by Health Protection Branch regulators from the decision by France to suspend the administration of the hepatitis B vaccination; ( b ) actions taken by Health Canada to assess safety of the vaccination B product and, in particular, to survey for adverse reactions over and above voluntary reporting; ( c ) information requested and received from international bodies such as the World Health Organization about the safety of the hepatitis B vaccination; ( d ) reassessment of existing evidence in the new drug submission for the hepatitis B vaccination previously assessed; and ( e ) evidence that plasma was not involved in any part of the manufacturing of the hepatitis B vaccination?

[Allan Rock, Liberal, Minister of Health]

Hepatitis B is a potentially serious disease, spread by blood and body fluid contact. From 1990 to 1994 the incidence of hepatitis B in Canada was on average about 10.3 per 100,000 per year, with corresponding mortality, morbidity and the potential for long term complications and chronic carriage. The best time to introduce the vaccine into the routine schedule is before children become sexually active. Targeting high risk groups only is an ineffective strategy, which is why the vaccine is being offered for infants or children.

(a) The decision in France was taken in response to pressure exerted by opponents to the vaccine who allege that immunization with the vaccine is associated with the development of some types of neurologic disease. It was not based on scientific evidence.

The French Minister of Health announced on October 1, 1998 that school based vaccination programs would be temporarily suspended, in part due to pressure from opponents to the vaccine. Allegations have been circulating in France, despite a lack of scientific evidence, linking hepatitis B vaccination and the development of demyelinating diseases such as multiple sclerosis, MS. In contrast, the vaccine is still recommended for routine infant immunization, and for adults in high risk groups. More importantly, vaccination is still recommended and available to adolescents through their family doctor's office. The French minister highlighted that this move was temporary, and it will permit a reassessment of the method of delivery of adolescent immunization in school settings. France embarked on a very large scale hepatitis B immunization effort several years ago, to the point where some 25 million doses have been distributed and over one-third of the population have been vaccinated.

(b) The Laboratory Centre for Disease Control, LCDC, Health Canada and the National Advisory Committee on Immunization, NACI, have continued to review available evidence, including results of postmarked surveillance in Canada, in light of the allegations against hepatitis B vaccine. There is no evidence to suggest any change in the current recommendations for the routine use of hepatitis B vaccine in Canada. There is no credible scientific evidence linking hepatitis B vaccination and MS and chronic fatigue syndrome.

The World Health Organization, WHO, has reaffirmed the safety of hepatitis B vaccine and strongly recommended that all countries already using hepatits B vaccine continue to do so, and that countries not yet using the vaccine begin as soon as possible. Health Canada's role with regard to the hepatitis B vaccine is multifaceted.

The Therapeutic Products Program, TPP, reviews the vaccine through a process of careful assessment of pre-market clinical trials to ensure it meets required standards of safety and efficacy. In addition, each lot of vaccine is individually cleared by TPP before being allowed on the market.

The National Advisory Committee on Immunization, reporting to the Assistant Deputy Minister, Health Protection Branch, issues guidelines and recommendations on the use of the product. NACI indeed has recommended routine use of the vaccine and continues to do so.

The Division of Immunization, Bureau of Infectious Diseases of the Laboratory Centre for Disease Control is responsible for the postmarked surveillance of vaccines in Canada, including the hepatitis B vaccine. It undertakes both passive and active surveillance of vaccine associated adverse events and supports an external expert advisory committee on vaccine safety. There have been no concerns regarding MS identified in Canada, and an investigation into whether the vaccine causes chronic fatigue syndrome found no evidence of an association.

The monitoring of vaccine safety relies on many interrelated activities in addition to case reporting. Not only do the Laboratory Centre for Disease Control, LCDC, Health Canada and the National Advisory Committee on Immunization aggregate and assess all reports received to be able to detect any signals of increased, unusual or previously unrecognised adverse events, but in addition Health Canada funds a national program, through the Canadian Pediatric Society, which actively monitors for serious reactions to vaccinations in children and adolescents at 11 pediatric hospitals. The Division of Immunization has also established a committee of medical and vaccine experts to review all the reported serious cases and to further investigated any concerns and take appropriate action as required.

(c) The World Health Organization, WHO, has issued a press release reaffirming the safety and benefit of hepatitis B vaccination. It concluded, after careful review with the assistance of external experts, that available scientific evidence does not demonstrate a causal association between hepatitis B immunization and central nervous system disease, including MS. The Viral Hepatitis Prevention Board, a World Health Organization collaborating centre for the prevention of viral hepatitis, called a technical consultation at the end of September 1998 to review accumulated data. Participants at that meeting were presented with data, including preliminary and still unpublished recent analytic epidemioligic studies conducted in France, the United Kingdom and the United States. Although they acknowledged that the data available to date was limited, none demonstrated a causal association between hepatitis B vaccination and demyelinating disease. They concluded that no evidence was presented at the meeting to indicate a need to change public health policy with respect to hepatitis B vaccination. Routine immunization programs against hepatitis B are in place in 100 countries around the world.

(d) Reassessment of existing evidence has not been considered for the time being in view of the aforementioned notification from WHO. Its statement is based on the conclusion from the international expert meeting at Geneva, on September 28-30, 1998, at which all available information was reviewed in detail—national public health and regulatory authorities, academia, the hospital sector, the pharmaceutical industry and the World Health Organization; experts in public health, epidemiology, immunology, neurology and pharmacology—in response to the decision of the Minister of Health in France to temporarily suspend the school based immunization program.

(e) There two hepatitis B vaccines available in Canada, both of which are recombinant products. This means that they consist of a non infectious subunit derived from the hepatitis B surface antigen harvested and purified from cultures of a strain of yeast. Therefore, no blood products are used at any stage of the manufacturing process. Before the approval of these two vaccines in 1987 and 1990, human plasma was involved in the manufacturing of hepatitis B vaccine. Those “plasma-derived” vaccines have been discontinued with the availability of recombinant products and are no longer in use.

Question No. 194—

[Peter MacKay, Progressive Conservative, Pictou—Antigonish—Guysborough, NS]

What financial charges have been made against the budgets of the RCMP and the Department of Justice for the Airbus investigation, and what is the total cost of the investigation as of February 10, 1999?

[Peter Adams, Liberal, Parliamentary Secretary to the Leader of the Government in the House of Commons]

I am informed as follows:

The Department of Justice does not have responsibility for criminal investigations. Department of Justice counsel may provide advice and assistance to the Royal Canadian Mounted Police, RCMP, and other police forces with respect to their investigations. Such advice or assistance is provided by the relevant sections of the department and the resources relied upon are those assigned to that particular function. Thus, it is not possible to provide figures on funds spent by the Department of Justice in relation to any particular RCMP investigation unless charges have been laid and the Attorney General of Canada has responsibility for the prosecution. In that instance, it might be possible to provide cost estimates for the prosecution. The budget for providing assistance to the RCMP in various contexts is allocated globally to units such as the International Assistance Group and it is not calculated by reference to individual cases.

It is the position of the Royal Canadian Mounted Police not to disclose the costs at this time as it would be harmful to the ongoing criminal investigation into this matter.

Questions Passed As Orders For Returns

[Peter Adams, Liberal, Parliamentary Secretary to Leader of the Government in the House of Commons]

Mr. Speaker, if Questions Nos. 130 and 131 could be made Orders for Return, the returns would be tabled immediately.

[The Deputy Speaker]

Is that agreed?

[Some hon. members]

Agreed. .[Text]

Question No. 130—

[Gordon Earle, NDP, Halifax West, NS]

What funds, grants, loans and loan guarantees has the federal government issued in the constituency of Halifax West for each of the following time periods: a ) October 25, 1993, to October 24, 1994; b ) October 25, 1994, to October 24, 1995; c ) October 25, 1995, to October 24, 1996; and d ) October 25, 1996, to June 1, 1997; and in each case, where applicable: (i) the department or agency responsible; (ii) the program under which the payment was made; (iii) the names of the recipients if they were groups or organizations; (iv) the monetary value of the payment made; and (v) the percentage of program funding covered by the payment received?

Return tabled.

Question No. 131—

[Gordon Earle, NDP, Halifax West, NS]

What funds, grants, loans and loan guarantees has the federal government issued in the constituency of Halifax West from June 2, 1997, to June 1, 1998, and in each case, where applicable: ( a ) the department or agency responsible; ( b ) the program under which the payment was made; ( c ) the names of the recipients if they were groups or organizations; ( d ) the monetary value of the payment made; and ( e ) the percentage of program funding covered by the payment received?

Return tabled.

[Peter Adams, Liberal, Peterborough, ON]

I ask, Mr. Speaker, that the remaining questions be allowed to stand.

[Ted White, Reform, North Vancouver, BC]

Mr. Speaker, I rise on a point of order.

I just wonder if the parliamentary secretary could do as well on notices of motions and get P-70 responded to as soon as possible.

[The Deputy Speaker]

He will not today because they are called only on Wednesdays. I know that the hon. member for North Vancouver will be very patient and will wait until Wednesday when we will hear all about it.

The parliamentary secretary has asked that the remaining questions be allowed to stand. Is that agreed?

[Some hon. members]

Agreed.

Business Of The House

[Bob Kilger, Liberal, Stormont—Dundas, ON]

Mr. Speaker, discussions have taken place between the parties and the member for Prince George—Bulkley Valley concerning the taking of the division on P-31 scheduled at the conclusion of Private Members' Business today. I believe you will find consent for the following motion. I move:

That at the conclusion of today's debate on P-31, all questions necessary to dispose of the said motion shall be deemed put, a recorded division deemed requested and deferred until Tuesday, April 20, 1999, at the expiry of the time provided for Government Orders.

[The Deputy Speaker]

Does the hon. chief government whip have the unanimous consent of the House to propose this motion?

[Some hon. members]

Agreed.

[The Deputy Speaker]

The House has heard the terms of the motion. Is it the pleasure of the House to adopt the motion?

[Some hon. members]

Agreed.

(Motion agreed to)

Supply

[Ted White, Reform, North Vancouver, BC]

moved:

That this House condemns the government for alienating itself from the regions of Canada by failing to identify and address the concerns and issues of those regions, and as a symbolic first step towards taking responsibility for all of the regions of Canada, the government should rename the Liberal committee on Western alienation the “Liberal Alienation Committee”.

[Chuck Strahl, Reform, Fraser Valley, BC]

Mr. Speaker, I rise on a point of order.

We look forward to this debate today. Reform Party members participating in the debate will be dividing their time.

[Ted White, Reform, North Vancouver, BC]

Mr. Speaker, it is because of the government's ongoing and arrogant disregard for the aspirations and valid concerns of the provinces and regions of this country that we are having to debate this motion today. I would like to read it into the record once again:

That this House condemns the government for alienating itself from the regions of Canada by failing to identify and address the concerns and issues of those regions, and as a symbolic first step towards taking responsibility for all of the regions of Canada, the government should rename the Liberal committee on Western alienation the “Liberal Alienation Committee”.

As the debate progresses today, Reform MPs will be speaking one by one about the concerns of Canadians on a region by region basis beginning with the west. We want to try to provide the Prime Minister with information firsthand which is much more detailed and valuable, and perhaps even more relevant than that which will be collected by his partisan task force, a task force which appears to be interested in receiving input only from persons or groups who can be identified as Liberal supporters.

As an example of a meaningful message, I would like the House to consider for a moment a poll of residents in B.C. and Alberta which was completed by Mark Trend Research in late March. The results of the poll provide some important contradictions to the claims made by the Prime Minister that he has been dealing with western concerns.

It is especially interesting to note that barely one in ten of the respondents had even heard of the Prime Minister's task force. That is not surprising in light of the complete failure of the task force to publish an agenda or to even make public the venues for the meetings so that westerners can give their input.

If we take as an example last week's activities of the task force, the chairman of the task force claimed in this House yesterday to have met with 60 individuals and organizations in Manitoba. I have a copy of their agenda here. It is quite clear that it was designed to exclude the public who would more than likely have arrived at the meetings with tough messages embarrassing to the task force.

This agenda was obviously put together months ago. It has been carefully constructed and it is entirely a set of meetings behind closed doors with special interest groups and Liberal Party hacks. Mind you, the chairman could be a bit gun shy of public exposure. In light of his experience on a Canada-wide talk show in early February, I would not blame him for wanting to have his meetings behind closed doors.

In two hours of open radio talk show he did not receive a single call of support from anywhere in Canada, in an entire two hour talk show. In fact, it was probably the hottest of public roastings experienced by any MP in a long time. Callers predicted that the task force would be a complete waste of money and that the members would not listen anyway. This prediction appeared to become a self-fulfilling prophecy as the talk show progressed.

The member for Charleswood St. James—Assiniboia made comments like “We have to pursue what we think is in the national interest” and “I hope the passions diminish and westerners accept the legislation”. He was talking about the ill-fated gun control bill, the Liberal gun control disaster. His comments made it quite clear that he had no intention of listening to the input from law-abiding gun owners who are sick of being treated like criminals.

Another comment from the task force chairman on that talk show was in connection with the probably unconstitutional Nisga'a treaty that is being dealt with in B.C. His answer to a request from one of the callers was “You know we don't believe in referendums”. To say the least, this is a truly insensitive statement from someone who claims to be leading a group which in the Prime Minister's words has a mandate to travel throughout the west on a fact finding mission. No wonder a caller to the show told the member that he is obviously deaf and needs a hearing aid.

In fact, the Mark Trend poll I mentioned earlier found that 65% of people in B.C. want a referendum on the Nisga'a treaty. That is up from 60% three months ago and up from 48% in August 1998. The more people learn about the agreement, the less they want it. The fact is they do not want two arrogant governments, each elected with less than 38% of the popular vote, ramming down their throats a system of government which is 100% based on race and which is probably unconstitutional.

On the flight to Ottawa from Vancouver this week I sat alongside a B.C. businessman who had lived in South Africa for seven or eight years. He told me, as have so many of my constituents who have lived in South Africa prior to coming to Canada, that the Nisga'a treaty does exactly what South Africa was told by the international community to abandon. It sets up a government based on race, a system of apartheid and racism and homelands rather than a system of equality of peoples.

Even the Liberal Party of B.C. is against the Nisga'a treaty and has launched a court challenge against the unconstitutional delegation of powers contained in the agreement.

Yet the member for Charleswood St. James—Assiniboia and his so-called task force are choosing to ignore the concerns of the people of B.C. and even what their own provincial counterparts are telling them. Unfortunately, the callers to the radio talk show were correct when they said that the task force would be a flop. They know that the vast majority of government members are simply trained seals who will vote the way they are told to vote by the Prime Minister regardless of the input they have received from the people in the west.

It is a sad commentary on our dysfunctional parliament that men and women who no doubt in their private lives are intelligent, thoughtful and reasonable people have no option but to vote the way they are told by the Prime Minister because otherwise he will not sign their nomination papers. It prevents them from representing their constituents.

In contrast, soon after westerners started the Reform Party, they included in the party constitution a provision which prevents a leader of the party from refusing to sign nomination papers. In the Reform Party it is the executive council, a body elected from the members at large which decides whether or not a leader will sign a candidate's nomination papers. Reform MPs are guaranteed the freedom to do what has to be done when it needs to be done in terms of voting freely in the House.

This is good because that Mark Trend poll I keep mentioning found that in both Alberta and B.C. more than 87% of the people want parliament reformed to establish free votes as the norm rather than the never. They want their MPs to represent them, not a political master in an office on Parliament Hill. Until the task force comes to grips with that reality, we all know that the callers to CKNW's radio talk show were absolutely right that the task force is a big waste of money and resources.

Surely it might make the task force members feel all warm and fuzzy inside when they meet with their carefully chosen sympathetic supporters, but as Winnipeg Sun copy editor Mark Perry wrote back in January “If Chrétien and his Liberal flunkies really wanted to know what's on the minds of Western Canadians”—

[The Deputy Speaker]

Order, please. The hon. member knows he cannot refer to other hon. members by name, even when quoting from a document. I would invite him to comply with the rules in that respect fully.

[Ted White, Reform, North Vancouver, BC]

Mr. Speaker, I thought you might stop me on that so I will start again. The article states that if the Prime Minister “and his Liberal flunkies really wanted to know what is on the minds of western Canadians, they could start by unplugging their ears and listening to what those folks sitting across from them in the House of Commons have to say. No, not the separatist Bloc Quebecois, the Reform Party”.

Mr. Perry then went on to state that they would find out very quickly and pointedly why the west does not elect more Liberals, which is of course the real point of this wasteful junket. Mr. Perry also wrote that the member for Charleswood St. James—Assiniboia should know better than to be part of this sham.

I know that my time is running short already. I am going to read out a typical list of western concerns. It is a list that has only grown since the government was elected in 1993. With respect to a few of the items on the list, the government has engaged in a very expensive and lavish public relations exercise, feigning concern and pretending that they have actually done something about the issues but to all intents and purposes nothing has changed.

One of the items on the list is an overhaul of the Young Offenders Act. That is a real overhaul, not the pathetic piece of fiddling while Rome burns that was recently introduced by the Minister of Justice. They want an end to the wheat board monopoly; a referendum on the Nisga'a template; prompt deportation of the tens of thousands of criminal refugee claimants in Canada and an end to refugee claims at the borders; action on judicial activism and a more transparent and public method for selecting judges; reform of the Senate; an end to the use of closure to limit parliamentary debates; and meaningful tax reductions.

That poll I mentioned asked westerners what they thought would be a meaningful tax reduction. Almost 87% said the tax reductions given by the minister were pitiful and that $2,500 to $3,000 per year was meaningful.