Debates of April 15th, 1999

Taxation

[Grant Hill, Reform, Macleod, AB]

Mr. Speaker, let me tell you what I was against. I was against the $21.4 billion this government took out of medicare in the previous five years and this little driblet, this $11.5 billion it is putting back. It is two to one, two dollars out and one dollar back in. That is not a very good record as far as I am concerned. How can the finance minister stand up and possibly justify that record? It is awful.

[Paul Martin, Liberal, Minister of Finance]

Mr. Speaker, if the hon. member was against that, then why is it that after we put $11.5 billion into the transfers to the provinces the hon. member stood up and—

[Some hon. members]

Oh, oh.

[The Speaker]

Order. We heard the question. We will hear the answer.

[Paul Martin, Liberal, LaSalle—Émard, QC]

Mr. Speaker, the question is, if the hon. member objected to the $3.5 billion which his party was going to cut in transfers, why did he not stand up and say so? If the hon. member objected to reductions in transfers when his party was going to cut $16 billion out of transfers to the provinces for health care, why did he not stand up in this House and say so?

Kosovo

[Monique Guay, Bloc, Laurentides, QC]

Mr. Speaker, NATO said it wanted to preserve the territorial integrity of Albania and Macedonia at all costs. Now Serb troops have moved into Albania and there has been mortar fire on the border with Macedonia for several days.

My question is for the Minister of Foreign Affairs. Can the minister tell us what NATO intends to do following its undertaking to protect Albania's borders?

[Lloyd Axworthy, Liberal, Minister of Foreign Affairs]

Mr. Speaker, there is no doubt there have been reported incidents of incursion across the borders. It has not constituted a major intervention. It has been an attempt in terms of the conflict between the UCK and Serbian forces themselves.

NATO ministers and NATO itself have made a very clear statement. We will not in any way accept any interference or any transgression across those borders. We guarantee the safety and security of Macedonia and Albania.

[Monique Guay, Bloc, Laurentides, QC]

Mr. Speaker, the bombing area is one travelled through by many refugees, and numerous NGOs are working there as well.

Since Doctors without Borders and NGO workers are at risk, does the minister still think that deploying troops is hypothetical, as he said yesterday?

[Art Eggleton, Liberal, Minister of National Defence]

Mr. Speaker, there are no plans to send ground troops at this point in time. The only plan is in terms of a peace implementation force.

With respect to the air campaign, every effort is made to hit military targets. That is our objective. That is our effort. Every effort is also made to avoid civilian casualties. Unfortunately, there have been incidents, but every effort is being made to double the attempts to prevent that kind of thing from happening.

Aboriginal Affairs

[Mike Scott, Reform, Skeena, BC]

Mr. Speaker, the Kamloops Indian band has just enacted a labour code that denies unions the right to strike or collect union dues on the reserve. This move effectively bans unions on the Kamloops Indian reserve and it flies in the face of the Canada Labour Code and denies basic rights and freedoms to band members.

Does the minister agree that the Kamloops Indian band's new labour code is an attack on the charter rights of band members to participate in trade unions?

[David Iftody, Liberal, Parliamentary Secretary to Minister of Indian Affairs and Northern Development]

Mr. Speaker, I can advise the House and the hon. member that we have received the petition from the Kamloops band for this particular amendment to the Canada Labour Code. We have deemed that it is out of order and we have given that notice to the chief and council of the Kamloops band. We consider the matter closed.

[Mike Scott, Reform, Skeena, BC]

Mr. Speaker, it is interesting to note that in the case of the Kamloops Indian band the government deems the matter to be out of order, but we find that the Nisga'a treaty will also give the Nisga'a government the absolute power to ban trade unions from their territory for all time.

Why do the minister and the government agree to grant self-government powers to the Nisga'a government that deny Nisga'a people the right to belong to a trade union?

[David Iftody, Liberal, Parliamentary Secretary to Minister of Indian Affairs and Northern Development]

Mr. Speaker, the hon. member is again confusing two different pieces of legislation. He does not understand Bill C-49 or the Nisga'a legislation.

The hon. member knows this. His party and leader should know this. In the treaty that was signed, there are specific provisions which provide for the application of the charter of rights and freedoms as to all Canadians.

Kosovo

[René Laurin, Bloc, Joliette, QC]

Mr. Speaker, on Tuesday the NATO supreme commander confirmed that the U.S. had been asked for 300 more aircraft, and the allies for about 50 more, which would raise the total number of planes involved in the conflict to more than 1,000.

Can the Minister of National Defence tell us what exactly is the supplementary effort NATO is requesting from Canada, and what role those planes would play in intensifying the air strikes in Yugoslavia?

[Art Eggleton, Liberal, Minister of National Defence]

Mr. Speaker, there was a general request issued by the supreme allied commander in Europe to the NATO countries. We are actively looking at the matter. I hope to have something to say about this shortly.

[Sarkis Assadourian, Liberal, Brampton Centre, ON]

Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Minister of Foreign Affairs.

We know the minister has said that the NATO air campaign is necessary to bring maximum pressure to bear on Milosevic to negotiate. Will the minister inform the House of what other actions Canada is taking to highlight the human rights and humanitarian concerns in the region?

[Lloyd Axworthy, Liberal, Minister of Foreign Affairs]

Mr. Speaker, I agree very much with the hon. member that it is very important to bring the maximum pressure against the perpetrators of the violence that is going on in Kosovo.

I want to inform the hon. member and the House that Canada co-sponsored a resolution at the United Nations Human Rights Commission which condemned the ethnic cleansing, which demanded an immediate cessation of the persecution of Kosovars, and which asked the international community to support the work of the international criminal tribunal.

I am pleased to say that resolution passed with 44 votes for, one against and six abstentions. It shows the mobilization of support we can get against this kind of violence.

Agriculture

[Howard Hilstrom, Reform, Selkirk—Interlake, MB]

Mr. Speaker, yesterday the minister of agriculture talked about mailing out application forms when I asked him how much money farmers had received from disaster assistance. Farmers do not want the minister to talk about sending out forms. They need the minister to send out some help.

Can the minister tell the House how much money he has sent out to producers to date?

[Joe McGuire, Liberal, Parliamentary Secretary to Minister of Agriculture and Agri-Food]

Mr. Speaker, an example of what the government is doing as the applications come in is that Ontario, which has returned 1,000 applications, is receiving a payout of about $25,000 per farmer. The farmers on Prince Edward Island have submitted about one-fifth of their application forms at a payout rate of $38,000.

As soon as the applications come in the government will expedite the payout.

[Howard Hilstrom, Reform, Selkirk—Interlake, MB]

Mr. Speaker, I would like to talk a bit about western Canadian farmers. How many application forms have come in from them?

The application forms were not even available on the Internet until March. They never started mailing them out until two weeks ago, so how could the forms be back here? How much money has gone out to western Canadian farmers?

[Joe McGuire, Liberal, Parliamentary Secretary to Minister of Agriculture and Agri-Food]

Mr. Speaker, it is a very peculiar question from a party that does not want to pay out any money to farmers.

The minister said yesterday that 11,000 application had been sent out. As soon as they are sent in, they will be processed and the money will be sent to the farmers.

Kosovo

[Libby Davies, NDP, Vancouver East, BC]

Mr. Speaker, the Canadian Council of Churches met today with the Prime Minister to urge a diplomatic solution to the Kosovo crisis. Let me read from its letter:

Canada needs to take advantage of its hard-won position on the security council, calling on it to perform a central overseeing role in the diplomatic and humanitarian response to the crisis.

My question is for the Minister of Foreign Affairs. Why will Canada not lead the call to move for a diplomatic solution at the UN?

[Lloyd Axworthy, Liberal, Minister of Foreign Affairs]

Mr. Speaker, first I would like to say that the Prime Minister did have a very important meeting with the leaders of a number of major Canadian churches this morning for well over an hour.

It was one of those particularly important exchanges because of the morality and the sense of urgency the churches brought. I can also say that I think they understood as well that Canada is actively engaged in trying to stop as much as it can through NATO the persecution, the violation, the harassment and the deportation of hundreds of thousands of Kosovars. That in itself is a very important moral stand to take.

[Libby Davies, NDP, Vancouver East, BC]

Mr. Speaker, the Vatican, churches throughout Europe and churches in Russia have appealed to NATO, to the Serbs and to the Albanian Kosovars to stop the military action and to engage in dialogue immediately. Now, as we have heard, they are joined by the Canadian Council of Churches.

To advance this diplomatic dialogue, is Canada prepared to pursue a uniting for peace resolution at the United Nations? Will Canada do that?

[Lloyd Axworthy, Liberal, Minister of Foreign Affairs]

Mr. Speaker, I recognize the good intentions of members of the New Democratic Party. They keep coming back to the uniting for peace resolution. I keep coming back to the point that there is active diplomatic initiatives under way.

I had discussions this morning with the secretary general who put up a five point program last week, which has now been reflected in the G-8 meetings in the proposition put forward by the German government.

The secretary general himself is actively working to secure agreement on those five points. If the secretary general is interested in that proposal, I think the New Democratic Party may restrain itself on its uniting for peace resolution until we see how that works out.