Debates of April 20th, 1999

Kosovo

[Art Eggleton, Liberal, Minister of National Defence]

Mr. Speaker, we have to be careful of what we talk about in terms of our strategic involvement in the area of the Balkans now and in—

[Some hon. members]

Oh, oh.

[The Speaker]

Order. We wanted to hear the question and we did. We will hear the answer.

[Art Eggleton, Liberal, York Centre, ON]

Mr. Speaker, we have CF personnel in Aviano working as part of the air campaign. We do have people in Macedonia and Albania who are trying to help the refugees. Tens of thousands of refugees are pouring over the border every day because of the terrible atrocities being committed on them by the Milosevic government. That is why we are over there. We are over there to help those people, to return to them their human rights, their dignity and their right to live in peace and security in Kosovo. That is why we are over there.

Why can we not have the support of that party in doing what Canadians want us to do?

Taxation

[John Williams, Reform, St. Albert, AB]

Mr. Speaker, the auditor general reported today that 4.5% of the gross domestic product is underground and that Revenue Canada hired 1,200 new auditors to find it and tax it. The Minister of Finance may think that more tax collectors make his bottom line look better, but what effect does he think that these tax cops will have on the bottom line of Canadian families? Why does he have a policy of squeezing more taxes out of Canadians rather than a policy of giving some taxes back?

[Herb Dhaliwal, Liberal, Minister of National Revenue]

Mr. Speaker, as the hon. member knows, we have $16.5 billion in tax relief.

In terms of the underground economy there are many estimates as to what its size is. The auditor general has one estimate. What the auditor general has said though, and I hope the member will read it, is that what Revenue Canada is doing now is to have a balanced approach to ensure there is social marketing to make Canadians aware of their responsibility. All Canadians want to pay their fair share of taxes. We are confident that they do that. We are looking at methods to ensure we give proper service to Canadians to—

[The Speaker]

The hon. member for St. Albert.

[John Williams, Reform, St. Albert, AB]

Mr. Speaker, he may call it a balanced approach but when he squeezes $40 billion more out of Canadian taxpayers since this government took office, I do not call that a balanced approach at all. That is why Canadians have been driven underground and are being driven out of this country. They cannot make a living here and pay the taxes too. Instead of adding more tax cops, why will the minister not cut taxes and do it now?

[Paul Martin, Liberal, Minister of Finance]

Mr. Speaker, let there be no doubt the government's revenues are up. They are up because there are a million and a half Canadians who are working, more than were working before. They are up because corporate profitability is up. They are up because our exports are up. Our revenues are up because Canada's economy is up. That is why.

Kosovo

[Michel Gauthier, Bloc, Roberval, QC]

Mr. Speaker, in 1991, the current Prime Minister was the Leader of the Opposition, the Minister of Foreign Affairs, a member on these benches, and the two of them rose in the House to demand a vote from Brian Mulroney before troops were sent to Iraq.

Seven years later, they are in the government. Why did they change their point of view?

[Lloyd Axworthy, Liberal, Minister of Foreign Affairs]

Mr. Speaker, as with most subjects, the Bloc Quebecois distorts what has been said. What we said back then was that it was important for parliament to be involved in making these decisions. Since 1993 when we came in, every single initiative the government has taken in which we have had troops committed overseas has been the subject of a debate in this parliament.

[Michel Gauthier, Bloc, Roberval, QC]

Mr. Speaker, it can be checked, it is in the House of Commons Debates , and I challenge the minister to prove what he has just said.

That is the absolute truth. They demanded a vote, and today, in power, they have changed their position.

I have a question for them. Do they consider it decent, in front of the people of Canada, for the Prime Minister to decide to use a talk show this evening to speak to the people rather than answer questions in the House, as is his duty?

[Lloyd Axworthy, Liberal, Minister of Foreign Affairs]

Mr. Speaker, I know this will come as helpful information to the hon. member. We have organized a major briefing this afternoon for all members in front of the committee to get the full information of what is going on in Kosovo.

Taxation

[Rahim Jaffer, Reform, Edmonton Strathcona, AB]

Mr. Speaker, while the minister of taxes defends his high tax policies, 150 of Canada's largest companies are saying enough is enough.

The Business Council on National Issues told this government today that unless taxes come down, businesses are heading south. That is happening already. Clearly Canadian Beverages recently pulled the plug to go to the U.S. because according to its president the tax situation in this country is too tough to make a buck. Is this minister proud of the high tax policies that have made Clearly Canadian clearly American?

[Paul Martin, Liberal, Minister of Finance]

Mr. Speaker, what the BCNI said was that taxes should be brought down over a period of time in a way that would not threaten to put the country back into deficit. At the same time it said that there should be investments in research and development, education and all of those things that would give us a productive society. In short, the BCNI has essentially said that the slash and burn policies of the Reform Party are not going to build a productive society.

[Rahim Jaffer, Reform, Edmonton Strathcona, AB]

Mr. Speaker, we have seen no commitment from this government to reduce taxes at all. The finance minister has actually raised taxes over the past six years. Canadians are paying much more. That is why we have younger Canadians going to the U.S. and not staying. The talent is not staying in this country. Yesterday it was Nortel. Today we read that Newbridge cannot keep its talented employees here because they are paying too much in high taxes.

I would like the minister of taxes to stand in this House and tell these 150 companies why he thinks high taxes are helping their bottom lines.

[Paul Martin, Liberal, Minister of Finance]

Mr. Speaker, the Reform Party sets up straw men. The fact is nobody thinks high taxes help the bottom line. That is why, as the Minister of National Revenue said—

[Some hon. members]

Oh, oh.

[The Speaker]

Order, please. I would ask hon. members to keep their voices low. I do not want to name members. Please keep your voices low.

The hon. Minister of Finance will answer the question, if he so pleases.

[Paul Martin, Liberal, Minister of Finance]

Mr. Speaker, why do we not simply look at the facts.

Fact, $16.5 billion of tax cuts over the next 36 months. Fact, the child tax benefit, $1.8 billion going to help low and modest income families. Fact, the most generous research and development grants in the country. Fact, technology partnerships that are going to help a number of our major industries. Fact, the lowest corporate rate for small business of any of the major industrialized countries.

Those are the facts. That is what this government has done.

Millennium Scholarships

[Bernard Bigras, Bloc, Rosemont, QC]

Mr. Speaker, yesterday the Minister of Human Resources Development took refuge behind the Gautrin resolution, using it as an excuse for his refusal to move on the millennium scholarship issue.

This resolution calls for negotiations to be held government to government, leading to legislative amendments, and avoiding any duplication.

Instead of playing the wise guy, will the Minister of Human Resources Development admit that he is the one not complying with the Gautrin resolution by refusing, for no real reason, to negotiate with Minister Legault, who is there in Quebec City waiting for him?

[Pierre Pettigrew, Liberal, Minister of Human Resources Development]

Mr. Speaker, I see that the Bloc Quebecois is taking refuge behind the “government to government” referred to in the Gautrin resolution. There was government to government negotiation, which failed, I regret to say.

What I would like to see is for all of us to put the welfare of Quebec students first, the people who are entitled to loans and bursaries. I would like to see ministers like Messrs Landry and Legault quit intimidating the prominent Canadians who are seeking to help Canadian students, despite the bunch in the Bloc Quebecois.

[Bernard Bigras, Bloc, Rosemont, QC]

Mr. Speaker, if he wants to talk about the students, fine, we will.

Yesterday, the president of the FEUQ said “The federal government...is hiding behind the foundation legislation to refuse to negotiate an arrangement”. The problem is not in Quebec City, it is here in Ottawa, with the Minister of Finance.

What is holding the Minister of Human Resources Development back from assuming his responsibilities and going to negotiate with François Legault in Quebec City?

[Pierre Pettigrew, Liberal, Minister of Human Resources Development]

Mr. Speaker, a resolution was passed unanimously in the Quebec National Assembly which gives us precisely the criteria the National Assembly supposedly wants. The foundation's legislative mandate allows it to accommodate the motion adopted by the Quebec National Assembly.

I believe we must work constructively toward helping Quebec students to obtain more funding for their studies.

Trade

[Deepak Obhrai, Reform, Calgary East, AB]

Mr. Speaker, there is a crisis brewing in our backyard and once again the government seems to be paralyzed.

The United States has stripped Canada of its favoured nation status on defence contracts. Is it not shameful that the minister of trade did not even know of this impending action which threatens thousands of Canadian jobs? Why was the minister caught off guard when $5 billion is at stake?