Debates of April 20th, 1999

Taxation

[Herb Dhaliwal, Liberal, Minister of National Revenue]

Mr. Speaker, I have had the opportunity to meet with the auditor general in regard to his report.

Of course, when the auditor general talks about the underground economy he is talking about both federal and provincial revenues.

We have a voluntary compliance system. We have one of the highest rates of voluntary compliance. Ninety-five per cent of Canadians pay their fair share of taxes. We also have an enforcement program which has resulted in $5 billion.

The auditor general said that we have a balanced approach which ensures and encourages voluntary compliance, but at the same time we have a strong enforcement system, and that is—

[The Speaker]

The hon. member for Calgary Southeast.

[Jason Kenney, Reform, Calgary Southeast, AB]

Mr. Speaker, the auditor general said that the government has an approach which simply is not working and that the federal treasury is losing $12 billion a year. Again the government's solution is to hire more tax cops.

Let us look at the facts. The auditor general said that in 1994 a poll showed that 58% of Canadians would accept an offer to evade taxes when buying goods or services. In a poll taken last year that figure had grown to 73%. Fully three out of four Canadians said they would be prepared to evade.

Instead of hiring more tax cops to intimidate Canadian taxpayers, why does the government not find the real solution to the problem and provide Canadians with tax relief?

[Herb Dhaliwal, Liberal, Minister of National Revenue]

Mr. Speaker, as usual this member and his party speak out of both sides of their mouths. Members opposite stand in this House to say that we collect too many taxes, that we have too much revenue, and now they are saying we are not collecting enough taxes.

What we have is a balanced approach to ensure that we provide better service to Canadians and that we provide access to Canadians to improve voluntary compliance.

This is a government that reduced taxes by $16.5 billion. We do not just speak about it, we do it.

Kosovo

[Gilles Duceppe, Bloc, Laurier—Sainte-Marie, QC]

Mr. Speaker, yesterday the Minister of Foreign Affairs said that the issue of sending ground troops to Kosovo would be discussed next Friday at the meeting of NATO leaders in Washington.

With the Americans mobilizing troops and equipment, and the British Prime Minister and NATO's secretary general talking openly about the possibility of a ground war, we can assume that the Prime Minister of Canada will present Canada's position in Washington.

Can the Minister of Foreign Affairs tell us today what position the Prime Minister will defend on behalf of Canada in Washington this weekend?

[Lloyd Axworthy, Liberal, Minister of Foreign Affairs]

Mr. Speaker, to begin with, I did not say yesterday, and I ask the hon. member to look at the transcript, that NATO summit leaders would be discussing ground troops. I said that there will be meetings at which they will be able to discuss a wide variety of options for the future. It is up to the leaders to determine what the nature of those discussions will be.

At this point in time the position of the Canadian government is as it has been, that we will only support ground troops as part of a peacekeeping force to implement a peace agreement. That was the decision taken by NATO. That was the decision taken by the Canadian government.

[Gilles Duceppe, Bloc, Laurier—Sainte-Marie, QC]

Mr. Speaker, the Prime Minister himself said today that this issue could be raised by all NATO leaders during their discussions. So it could come up.

It is perhaps time that the government stopped giving evasive answers. We have more information about the intentions of the United States, Great Britain and Germany.

Will the Minister of Foreign Affairs admit how ridiculous Canada looks when it says that the question of sending ground troops is a hypothetical one here in parliament, while the Prime Minister himself says in a media scrum that it could come up during the Washington meeting and that it would therefore not necessarily be hypothetical?

[Lloyd Axworthy, Liberal, Minister of Foreign Affairs]

Mr. Speaker, the only thing that is ridiculous is the hon. member's question. That is all that is ridiculous.

What will take place during the summit meeting will be that the leaders will be examining the whole question of the present engagement in Kosovo, what can be done to help bring the refugees back, what can be done to help preserve their rights, what can be done to find a peace agreement and what can be done to support negotiations. Those are the key issues that leaders will be discussing; what are those kinds of options. One does not go in with a set position.

I know from the point of view of the Bloc Quebecois that they like to have nice rigid positions before anything is decided.

[Daniel Turp, Bloc, Beauharnois—Salaberry, QC]

Mr. Speaker, we have a problem, a real problem.

We are more familiar with the position of the United States, the United Kingdom and France than we are with that of the Government of Canada, which is seated right across the floor from us in this House.

My question is for the Minister of Foreign Affairs. Unless the government goes to Washington on Friday to receive their orders, would it not be to its advantage to gain support for its position on the German peace plan and the sending of ground forces to Kosovo with a vote in this House?

[Lloyd Axworthy, Liberal, Minister of Foreign Affairs]

Mr. Speaker, there has been no decision by the USA or Great Britain on a change to the NATO position.

All options will be discussed, particularly the option of negotiation and the option for planning stability and reconstruction in the Balkan region. There will be extensive discussions among the leaders of the NATO countries.

The priority is to seek a solution to the crisis in the Balkans, not the Bloc Quebecois position on a vote.

[Daniel Turp, Bloc, Beauharnois—Salaberry, QC]

Mr. Speaker, by refusing to hold a vote in the House, the Liberals are going against what they themselves demanded of the Conservative government in 1991: a vote in the House.

We are fed up with being poorly informed by this government. Does the problem not lie basically with the fact that the government is being directed by a Prime Minister, a Minister of Foreign Affairs, and a Minister of National Defence who are incapable of getting their act together, and who lack transparency?

[Lloyd Axworthy, Liberal, Minister of Foreign Affairs]

Mr. Speaker, what is instructive is that during the early part of the 1990s parliament was not even convened until two months after the ships were sent. We said it would be nice for parliament to at least be reconvened by the Conservatives. That was the position we took.

It seems to me that the hon. member is now indicating that his party is changing its position. It is now reneging on its commitment to support Canadian troops in trying to bring about a redress of the grievances in Kosovo. Why do you not speak up? Why do you not fess up to what your position is?

[The Speaker]

I ask hon. members to please address their remarks through the Chair.

[Alexa McDonough, NDP, Halifax, NS]

Mr. Speaker, my question is also for the Minister of Foreign Affairs.

NATO meets on Friday in Washington to discuss strategy on Kosovo. Military options will be considered, but diplomatic avenues must be pursued as well. Canada must use this opportunity to push for a diplomatic solution to the humanitarian crisis in Kosovo.

My question is simple. What specific diplomatic initiatives will Canada put on the table at the NATO summit?

[Lloyd Axworthy, Liberal, Minister of Foreign Affairs]

Mr. Speaker, Canada has been promoting a diplomatic solution from the very beginning of the crisis in Kosovo.

Unfortunately, we finally came to the situation where the Milosevic regime refused any adherence to the fundamental rule of law or any kind of agreement whatsoever. Therefore, we had to opt for the enforcement of that rule of law and the protection of the innocent lives of people.

What we will be supporting at Washington is the continuation of allowing us to use every opportunity to support the initiatives of the secretary general, the NATO council and the leaders of Russia, who are all seeking to find a solution.

[Alexa McDonough, NDP, Halifax, NS]

Mr. Speaker, we have just heard from the foreign affairs minister that Canada will do very little to take real leadership.

The foreign affairs minister said yesterday that to be a leader in nuclear disarmament Canada has to assume some responsibilities. The NATO summit in Washington gives Canada a clear opportunity to provide that leadership.

Will Canada accept its responsibilities by urging that NATO abandon its first use nuclear policy?

[Lloyd Axworthy, Liberal, Minister of Foreign Affairs]

Mr. Speaker, as the hon. member of the third party probably knows, we tabled in the House—

[An hon. member]

Fourth party.

[Lloyd Axworthy, Liberal, Winnipeg South Centre, MB]

The fourth party. I gave her a promotion.

We tabled in the House a very exhaustive paper on Canada's intentions and objectives in seeking nuclear disarmament. We fully agreed with the all-party committee that recommended we bring forward for review the ways in which NATO can use its opportunities for disarmament and arms control. That is the position we are taking. I think it is a position that will be accepted.

[David Price, Progressive Conservative, Compton—Stanstead, QC]

Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Minister of National Defence.

Can the minister advise us whether in the last two weeks we have had any CF personnel on the ground in any capacity in Yugoslavia?

[Art Eggleton, Liberal, Minister of National Defence]

Mr. Speaker, this is unbelievable. I said yesterday that there have not been any troops on the ground in Kosovo or Yugoslavia. I am not prepared to go beyond that for the security of our personnel.

The hon. member received a letter, of which I have a copy, from a citizen who said “When CF personnel go in harm's way it is the responsibility of all Canadians to do everything possible to ensure they are supported and protected to the maximum possible extent. In most instances, that includes keeping your mouth shut”.

[David Price, Progressive Conservative, Compton—Stanstead, QC]

Mr. Speaker, Jane's Defence Weekly , the most respected defence publication in the world, has the headline “Special forces involvement confirmed”. The electronic Telegraph has been reporting SAS involvement in Kosovo since April 11. The Yugoslavians know from the targets being destroyed that NATO's special forces are operating on the ground. We also read today in the London Times that if CF personnel are not operating in theatre, then how can their lives be at risk?

[Some hon. members]

Oh, oh.

[The Speaker]

Order. I ask the hon. member to put his question.

[David Price, Progressive Conservative, Compton—Stanstead, QC]

Mr. Speaker, it is very straightforward. If CF personnel are not operating in theatre, then how are we putting their lives at risk?