Debates of April 23rd, 1999

Kosovo

[René Laurin, Bloc, Joliette, QC]

Mr. Speaker, Russia attempted a diplomatic breakthrough with the Milosevic government, with a plan that provides for the sending of a civilian peacekeeping force under the UN.

However, the terms set by Belgrade do not meet NATO's minimum requirements to end the air strikes.

My question is for the Prime Minister. Does Canada intend to use that opportunity created by Russia to resume diplomatic efforts, or has the government given up any hope for a peaceful resolution of the conflict?

[Herb Gray, Liberal, Deputy Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, we certainly welcome the efforts of Russian special envoy Viktor Chernomyrdin. We have always said that the Russians should be part of the solution to Kosovo.

We have yet to see the full details of what was discussed between Mr. Chernomyrdin and President Milosevic. Indications are that what has been discussed falls well short of what is required. I think that has to be taken into account in considering the reports of what was discussed between Chernomyrdin and Milosevic yesterday.

[René Laurin, Bloc, Joliette, QC]

Mr. Speaker, since Canada is a member of NATO, the G-8 and the security council, why is it not the one showing leadership and innovation on the diplomatic front?

Why do we look like we are following everyone as regards this conflict, whether it is in terms of humanitarian, military, political or diplomatic initiatives?

[Herb Gray, Liberal, Deputy Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, as a member of the UN security council, we undertook discussions with the permanent members of the security council, to try to find a diplomatic solution. At this point, it is obvious that any initiative from the security council would be vetoed by one of its permanent members.

This is why we must continue our active participation in NATO's efforts.

[Alexa McDonough, NDP, Halifax, NS]

Mr. Speaker, Canadians are hopeful that the Russian initiative will lead to an exchange of proposals and ultimately a diplomatic solution to the Kosovo crisis.

My question is simple and straightforward. Does Canada support the Russian initiative and if so, is that the message that Canada is taking to NATO this weekend?

[Herb Gray, Liberal, Deputy Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, I have already said that we welcome the efforts of Russian special envoy Chernomyrdin but we have to look at the proposal in detail.

At the moment the reports as to what the Russians understand the proposal to be and what the Serbians understand it to be are contradictory. Indications are that the proposal falls well short of what is required.

We are going to carry forward in our discussions at NATO the importance of creating a diplomatic solution. The hon. member is wrong in asking us to rubber stamp what may or may not be the Milosevic proposal.

[Alexa McDonough, NDP, Halifax, NS]

Mr. Speaker, we are not talking rubber stamping.

The Prime Minister has stated again and again that Russia's participation is key in finding a diplomatic solution. There is now an initiative from Russia on the table. Russia is eager to discuss that initiative with NATO. Is Canada urging NATO to respond positively to the Russia's invitation?

[Herb Gray, Liberal, Deputy Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, I have already said that Canada will be actively participating in the discussions at the NATO summit. We will be stressing the importance of creating a diplomatic solution.

I do not know what more the hon. member expects from us. She seems to be pushing for a rubber stamping of this initiative by President Milosevic. That does not make any sense.

Correctional Service Canada

[Peter MacKay, Progressive Conservative, Pictou—Antigonish—Guysborough, NS]

Mr. Speaker, with the Liberals' 50/50 release plan for prisoners rolling along and a plan to release more prisoners this year than ever before, Tuesday's auditor general's report made startling revelations of lengthy delays in processing, senior corrections officers who are not performing their case management and offenders programming failing to meet expectations. With public safety at risk this is disgraceful.

It appears that Corrections Canada has cut corners in its haste to meet this 50/50 quota deadline. If rehabilitation is the priority, will the solicitor general please explain why Corrections Canada has received a failing grade?

[Jacques Saada, Liberal, Parliamentary Secretary to Solicitor General of Canada]

Mr. Speaker, it goes without saying that any human system can be improved on, and I am pleased to see that the hon. member is prepared to help us in that regard.

But if the member wants to quote the auditor general, he should also mention the positive comments made by the auditor general about our efforts, including improved training for officers, information on program costs, program effectiveness evaluation, surveillance in the communities, risk assessment in the case of offenders, lessons learned and shared, and the management of social reintegration activities. These are the good things that are done by Correctional Service Canada.

[Peter MacKay, Progressive Conservative, Pictou—Antigonish—Guysborough, NS]

Mr. Speaker, I guess the response is that we take the good with the bad.

Employment programs are crucial to the reintegration of offenders into society. According to the auditor general, Corrections Canada is not offering proper employment opportunities that will achieve that goal. In fact CSC cannot even manage its own finances. It receives $18 million annually yet continues to be a money losing venture.

What steps are the solicitor general's office taking to alleviate this and other glaring problems outlined in this scathing report from the auditor general?

[Jacques Saada, Liberal, Parliamentary Secretary to Solicitor General of Canada]

Mr. Speaker, it is interesting to see that less attention is being paid to the answers given that to the upcoming questions.

To answer my colleague's question, I just want to go back to one point. In his report, the auditor general deals primarily with the management of social reintegration activities, and he acknowledges the very significant and impressive progress made by Correctional Service Canada.

Pensions

[Gerry Ritz, Reform, Battlefords—Lloydminster, SK]

Mr. Speaker, first the government pirated the worker's EI fund for $26 billion and now it has its sights set on the $30 billion public pension fund surplus.

Is no fund safe from the government? Does it not realize the dangerous precedent it is setting with these moves?

[Marcel Massé, Liberal, President of the Treasury Board and Minister responsible for Infrastructure]

Mr. Speaker, we are not setting a precedent; we are merely following the law.

We have a legislative plan where all the benefits are guaranteed to the employees. We are not only guaranteeing the benefits to the employees in terms of their pension plans but we are increasing these benefits.

Over the years it has only been the taxpayers who have shared the risk and who have paid for it. When the plan was indexed there was an additional liability of $8 billion. Every cent of it was paid for by taxpayers, so there is no doubt, no legal doubt and no accounting doubt, that the surplus belongs to Canadian taxpayers.

[Dick Harris, Reform, Prince George—Bulkley Valley, BC]

Mr. Speaker, the Liberal law is pay more, get less. That is their law. They have scooped $26 billion from the EI surplus and now they will raid another $30 billion surplus from the public service pension fund. It is not their money.

Why are the Liberals so intent on destroying the security of Canadians' pension plans by constantly raiding surpluses? And they have their eyes on another $30 billion. It is not their money.

[Marcel Massé, Liberal, President of the Treasury Board and Minister responsible for Infrastructure]

Mr. Speaker, I am surprised by the position of the Reform Party. I am more than surprised; I am sad. I am really sad because this money belongs to Canadian taxpayers.

This is the party that has been telling people that it will defend their interest. This is the party that has been telling people that it would try to reduce the debt. The government is doing what is right and what is legal by giving back to Canadian taxpayers what belongs to them, and the Reform Party of all parties has the temerity and the audacity, which really makes me sad, to try to steal that money from the Canadian taxpayer.

[The Speaker]

Order, please. We are getting new words today like pirated, raided, scooped, and now I draw the line at steal. I would prefer we do not use that word in the House of Commons.

Canadian Hockey Association Women's National Team

[Caroline St-Hilaire, Bloc, Longueuil, QC]

Mr. Speaker, to general surprise and for no discernable reason, the Canadian Hockey Association Women's National Team's head trainer, Danièle Sauvageau, who led the Canadian team to a gold medal at the world championships, has just be replaced, for no good reason, by a westerner.

Can the Minister of Canadian Heritage tell us whether she is comfortable with the association's decision, which looks, once again, like discrimination against athletes and trainers from Quebec?

[Mauril Bélanger, Liberal, Parliamentary Secretary to Minister of Canadian Heritage]

Mr. Speaker, the organization to which the member refers is an independent one that makes its own decisions, and I am surprised that the member would call for the government to interfere.

[Caroline St-Hilaire, Bloc, Longueuil, QC]

Mr. Speaker, that does not usually stop the government from interfering.

Women's hockey is the most recent example of practices that look like discrimination against Quebeckers: there is handball, synchronized swimming, and the exclusive use of English in sports federations and in presentations by the Canadian Olympic Association.

Will the minister at least demand an explanation from the Canadian Hockey Association Women's National Team, which receives public funding, part of which, I would remind her, comes from Quebec?

[Mauril Bélanger, Liberal, Parliamentary Secretary to Minister of Canadian Heritage]

Mr. Speaker, the government's position on official languages and linguistic duality is very well known. Unfortunately, on a number of occasions, some organizations that receive federal government funding have not shown all the respect they should for linguistic duality and the official languages.

If this is the point the member opposite is raising, we will be pleased to look into the matter and to remind these organizations of their obligations.

Atlantic Canada Opportunities Agency

[Rob Anders, Reform, Calgary West, AB]

Mr. Speaker, another day, another ACOA scam. TAGS and ACOA dole out $310,000 to Roger Birmingham for a meat store in St. John's, Newfoundland, and he goes bankrupt. Then he reopens his doors and picks up a new partner, former Mayor Bob Whiffin. Surprise, he gets hundreds of thousands of dollars more. The same location, the same business, the same old sad story.

Was it right to use taxpayer dollars to restart this failed business? Yes or no.

[Fred Mifflin, Liberal, Minister of Veterans Affairs and Secretary of State (Atlantic Canada Opportunities Agency)]

Mr. Speaker, once again the Reform has it all wrong. First, there is no relationship of one money to the other. Second, the money was indeed used to expand on a smokehouse operation. It looked good at the time.

As the hon. member knows ACOA does have less than success in some of its operations, but I have to tell him that our failure rate in ACOA is less than 9%, which is lower than they are in the polls, which is very low.

[Rob Anders, Reform, Calgary West, AB]

Mr. Speaker, I can let the hon. minister know what their relationship is. They all have to do with the waste of taxpayer dollars, clear and simple.

We have heard it before from him, but something is rotten in that meat store. Birmingham and Whiffin are getting another $100,000 and they are waiting for two more grants.

There is something the minister can do right here and now. He can stop the $100,000 and deny the other applications. Will the minister cut the fat?

[Fred Mifflin, Liberal, Minister of Veterans Affairs and Secretary of State (Atlantic Canada Opportunities Agency)]

Mr. Speaker, there is something the hon. member can do and that is stop criticizing an organization that produces in excess of 10,000 jobs a year for Atlantic Canada. Will he do it?