Madam Speaker, I am pleased to speak for a few minutes on Motion M-2, which reads:
That, in the opinion of this House, the Parliament and Crown Agencies should be subject to scrutiny under the Access to Information Act.
When we talked about raw milk cheese, during the previous parliament, I tried to get information on available raw milk cheese import quotas. I went to the Access to Information Commission, but the minister imposed a veto. He used all his energy to keep this information from me. Is there anything more harmless than this information on cheese import quotas?
On another occasion, I asked for information from another department. I got the information, but it made no sense. Much had been covered with a big black marker, and this was probably the gist of the document. I was left with the date at the top and a signature at the bottom, but hardly anything in between. And they claim they are abiding by the Access to Information Act.
Some ministers screen just about any request for information on their department. It is a sign of fear. Why would a minister bother to read, in some cases up to 95%, of all such requests? Does the minister himself cross out everything he wants to keep from us? In that case, the Access to Information Act is pretty much useless.
Everything we want to know or everything that is likely to be of interest to the person who made the request is crossed out by the minister, his assistants or his staff, which makes the Access to Information Act almost totally ineffective.
Crown corporations that are separate legal entities from the government should be subject to the application of the Access to Information Act. However, and I agree with the parliamentary secretary on that point, there are types of commercial information that cannot be released.
Let us take, for example, the Canadian Investment Corporation, the corporation responsible for managing the federal government's housing stock. If a competitor had access to its list of prices, its costs and other information of a purely internal nature, information related to the daily management of its affairs, we can see the damage the corporation could incur if it were forced to provide these details to its competitors.
It is not always MPs who request information, it is not always people who are concerned with protecting a certain part of the internal affairs of these organizations. Therefore, there is some danger in that and it could cause a lot of damage. I think the member for Red Deer, who made the proposal, agreed with what the parliamentary secretary said earlier, and I have to say that I share the same view. I am greatly concerned about this.
In parliament, we, the members, would be compelled to provide information. I believe there are things all would want to keep confidential. That is what we call the right to privacy. When we consider issues that have nothing to do with management but only with members themselves, it means that, pursuant to the Access to Information Act, one could ask individual members of parliament how much money they have in the bank, whether their house is mortgaged, how much money they owe. The motion before the House could be construed to mean that this kind of information could be obtained through the access to information commission.
I do not think that is the purpose of this motion nor the goal of its sponsor. No one in the House would want this either. It would be rathr difficult to apply the terms of such a motion. Of course, we respect and understand the sound principles on which it is based. My party share the concerns of the members of parliament and especially the hon. member for Red Deer who brought forward this motion.
But maybe we are overshooting, as my grandfather used to say. Some people could be affected and hurt if this motion were passed. Fortunately, it is not a votable item. It could have very undesirable if not deleterious effects, which would make us regret the day we passed such a motion.
I think the principle is sound. When I was co-chair of the joint scrutiny of regulations committee. When we asked to examine the bylaws of crown corporations, our requests were often turned down. We were told “We are an independent agency. The bylaws that we pass and publish are none of parliament's business”.
That was pretty frustrating, because these crown corporations are government creatures run on public funds. But when they are asked to give us information, they pretty well tell us to drop dead.
In my riding of Chambly, there was a post office sandwiched between two malls. There was a rumour that it was up for sale. The two mall owners came to my office. They asked me whether they could be assured that they would be notified in order to put in a bid, to purchase the post office business, which would have to move. Fortunately, it did not happen.
At the time, I had recently been elected and I was not very familiar with how to handle this. I phoned Canada Post Corporation and talked with an official. I wanted some assurances. Would there be a call for tender? Would it be public? I was told “Listen sir, if Canada Post decides to give away its post office, the government has no say in that decision. As long as we submit a positive balance sheet to the government, it does not ask any questions”. I thought it was totally appalling to get such an answer, but it was the truth. The person who gave me the information did not want to mislead me. He was telling me that the act, as it was worded, allowed Canada Post to do that.
As members can see, the Access to Information Act could be used in that situation. We could ask bodies, organizations or crown corporations to appear before a House committee or someone to justify their actions.
Therefore, we agree with the principles behind this motion. But it would have to be amended before we could support it.